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rockerarm Samba Member
Joined: December 16, 2009 Posts: 3552 Location: Los Angeles
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Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 1:36 pm Post subject: Why Resistor Spark Plugs? |
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Hey all. I have a question as to why the common Bosch and NGK spark plugs are now only offered with a resistor, with a corresponding increase in cost. Thanks in advance, Bill. |
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Mal evolent Samba Member
Joined: March 31, 2009 Posts: 2912 Location: San Antonio, Nuevo Mexico
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Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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radio noise suppression. non resistor plugs interfere with other car radios. _________________ 73 Beetle Baja, Ghia front brakes, Type 3 rear brakes, 2220 ( 94 X 80 ), Weber Progressive, Bosch SVDA, '97 Mustang seats
Baja Bugs for Volkswagen Virgins: Index |
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borninabus Samba R&D Dept.
Joined: May 18, 2006 Posts: 4538 Location: Arizona Highways
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Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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NGK still makes non-resistors.
BP6HS for T1 & BP6ET for T4 is what i use. _________________ 88 Van WBX, A/T - 13 JSW TDI 6M/T - 2012 Touareg TDI Sport |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50348
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Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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Most spark ignition engines require resister plugs so that is what the manufacturers supply. There is not much of a down side to using resister plugs, if you are worried about having too much resistance in the system then use a non resister rotor. |
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chimneyfish Samba Member
Joined: July 28, 2009 Posts: 881 Location: United Kingdom
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Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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Bosch still make them, I use W8CC, the hotter ones, which are fine for the climate here in the UK, all the following links are non-resistor:
Bosch W7CC: http://www.gsparkplug.com/shop/bosch-w7cc.html
Bosch W8CC: http://www.gsparkplug.com/shop/bosch-w8cc.html
NGK B6ES: http://www.gsparkplug.com/shop/ngk-b6es.html
German Supply sell the triple ground NGK BP6ET, never used them myself but from what I have heard and read a lot of people people seem to swear they are the best for the Type 2:
http://www.germansupply.com/home/customer/product.php?productid=16482&cat=&page=1 _________________ 1965 Type 1 Deluxe (1200cc)
1976 Type 2 T2b Microbus L (1800cc Type 4)
Previously...
1972 T2 Camper (Devon), 1988 Golf, 1972 Type 1, 1984 Polo, 1972 T2 Camper (Danbury) |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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chimneyfish Samba Member
Joined: July 28, 2009 Posts: 881 Location: United Kingdom
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Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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Was just now reading the Bosch/NGK plug chart at 1.45 on this Ratwell page (I'm on dual Solex carbs, he also gives plug codes recommended for L-Jet in the chart):
http://www.ratwell.com/technical/FAQ/FAQContent.html
Just for fun I'm now thinking of swapping my Bosch W8CC to NGK B5ES and see if it positively effects the running.
However, further to my linking to the three electrode BP6ET plug above, from what Ratwell says, the three electrode plugs don't seem to bring anything to the party! Anyone agree / disagree?
(like the oil sticky in the Performance - Engines/Transmissions forum, I'm suspecting choice of spark plugs are a rather subjective subject).
Also, in my Type 4 I'm running the restricted RPM's rotor in the distributor, but if someone was running the non-resistor rotor, would they be better off using the resistor plugs? (I don't mean as to limit RPMs, I mean to help with radio interference suppression). _________________ 1965 Type 1 Deluxe (1200cc)
1976 Type 2 T2b Microbus L (1800cc Type 4)
Previously...
1972 T2 Camper (Devon), 1988 Golf, 1972 Type 1, 1984 Polo, 1972 T2 Camper (Danbury) |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51145 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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chimneyfish wrote: |
Also, in my Type 4 I'm running the restricted RPM's rotor in the distributor, but if someone was running the non-resistor rotor, would they be better off using the resistor plugs? (I don't mean as to limit RPMs, I mean to help with radio interference suppression). |
Somebody makes a non resistor rotor?, the only one's I've seen require a DIY dremel out the resistor and solder in a wire fix. There's also resistors in the plug ends of the wires AFAIK. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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WestyPop Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2005 Posts: 1732 Location: SoCal
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Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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IMO... screw resistor plugs & resistor wires... go to monel wires. Haven't found how long they last, yet; they've only got around 125K miles so far. Seem to inhibit the RFI even better than did the German Bosch carbon wick wires with resistor ends. (W8AC plugs, gapped @.045", last 50-70K)
The monels hold up fine to the hotter sparks the Westy's capacitive discharge ignition system throws out. Once I saw that my V8 with a CD system would trash the carbon wick coil-to-distributor center wire in about 20-25K miles, I figured the Westy's 4-banger center wire was probably waiting to puke at about 40-50K miles. Didn't wait; changed to monel & they're still fine. OK, they're not OG... Waaah.
Just my 2 cents worth. _________________ Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
______________________________________
J.R.
68 Westy
(+ others) |
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chimneyfish Samba Member
Joined: July 28, 2009 Posts: 881 Location: United Kingdom
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Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 4:26 am Post subject: |
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busdaddy wrote: |
chimneyfish wrote: |
Also, in my Type 4 I'm running the restricted RPM's rotor in the distributor, but if someone was running the non-resistor rotor, would they be better off using the resistor plugs? (I don't mean as to limit RPMs, I mean to help with radio interference suppression). |
Somebody makes a non resistor rotor?, the only one's I've seen require a DIY dremel out the resistor and solder in a wire fix. There's also resistors in the plug ends of the wires AFAIK. |
Hello busdaddy, yes the built in resistance in the HT leads as well should be fine for these old vehicles.
I stand corrected on the rotors, I assumed these ones did not have a resistor (I'v never taken one apart, although now remembering I have heard the dremel advice before):
http://www.vwheritage.com/vw_spares_Rotor-arm-8-68...tartPage=1
And that these rev limiter ones do:
http://www.vwheritage.com/vw_spares_Rotor-arm-5400...tartPage=1
http://www.vwheritage.com/vw_spares_Rotor-arm-4500...tartPage=1
I read that the original 5400 RPM rotors relied on centrifugal force and a spring to cut out when the defined max revs were reached, I'm assuming that is still the case. (Apologies to the OP for the tangent to rotors from spark plugs, I think this thread may have gone way off topic now). _________________ 1965 Type 1 Deluxe (1200cc)
1976 Type 2 T2b Microbus L (1800cc Type 4)
Previously...
1972 T2 Camper (Devon), 1988 Golf, 1972 Type 1, 1984 Polo, 1972 T2 Camper (Danbury) |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51145 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 8:10 am Post subject: |
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There's all sorts of "reasons" why some carmakers use resistor plugs from radio or computer interference to length of wire effecting timing unless the resistor is at the plug. VW put the resistance in the rotor and wire ends and originally used solid wire so there was no need for resistor plugs. Some say too much resistance isn't good, others think it's fine, part of it depends on the health of your ignition system.
Here's how to ditch the resistor built into the rotor: http://www.huelsmann.us/bugman/RotorTech.html
Chimneyfish you are correct about the rev limiters, a spring loaded weight moves outwards at speed and grounds the spark out at the predetermined speed. Both solid and rev limiter rotors have a resistor, look for the epoxied area. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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archemitis Samba Member
Joined: November 07, 2012 Posts: 229 Location: minneapolis mn
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Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 9:42 am Post subject: |
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The real reason is to not send interference to any other electronics on the car(not so concerned with radios). If you have an electronic ignition non resistor plugs, and even solid core wires can make an Electronic Ignition malfunction.
If you have points and no radio, you would probably be fine without them.
http://www.championsparkplugs.com/glossary/8/spark-plug/R
People do strange things with spark plugs. Example, "I have a low compression engine that burns oil, and fouls spark plugs... I'll just run a hotter one.... " |
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Chris_914 Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2011 Posts: 344 Location: Las Vegas
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Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:53 am Post subject: |
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busdaddy wrote: |
There's all sorts of "reasons" why some carmakers use resistor plugs from radio or computer interference to length of wire effecting timing unless the resistor is at the plug. VW put the resistance in the rotor and wire ends and originally used solid wire so there was no need for resistor plugs. Some say too much resistance isn't good, others think it's fine, part of it depends on the health of your ignition system.
Here's how to ditch the resistor built into the rotor: http://www.huelsmann.us/bugman/RotorTech.html
Chimneyfish you are correct about the rev limiters, a spring loaded weight moves outwards at speed and grounds the spark out at the predetermined speed. Both solid and rev limiter rotors have a resistor, look for the epoxied area. |
BD, CB Performance carries a non resistance rotor.
http://www.cbperformance.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=2004 _________________ '75 Westfalia Camper FI 1.8L
'75 914 2.0L |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50348
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Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 11:04 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for posting this. I was pretty sure there was a source out there for these. I think you can even get unresister rotors from a normal flaps, but I don't know what application they are listed for. |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51145 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 11:16 am Post subject: |
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Wildthings wrote: |
Thanks for posting this. I was pretty sure there was a source out there for these. I think you can even get unresister rotors from a normal flaps, but I don't know what application they are listed for. |
Good to know, thanks! _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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Chris_914 Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2011 Posts: 344 Location: Las Vegas
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Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 11:23 am Post subject: |
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Wildthings wrote: |
Thanks for posting this. I was pretty sure there was a source out there for these. I think you can even get unresister rotors from a normal flaps, but I don't know what application they are listed for. |
I would bet you are right and it is probably the source of the CB unit. I have seen similar Bosch distributor bodies on many cars at the junk yard from VW, Volvo, etc. I was surprized that my '97 2.0L Golf cap and rotor looked like it would fit the older bug\bus distributors but I can't remember now if the rotor was a resistance unit or not. _________________ '75 Westfalia Camper FI 1.8L
'75 914 2.0L |
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udidwht Samba Member
Joined: March 06, 2005 Posts: 3779 Location: Seattle, WA./ HB, Ca./ Shizuoka, Japan
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Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:17 pm Post subject: |
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Buy them while you can because Bosch has stopped producing non resistor plugs. They also manufacture out of Germany these days for most of their parts. Places such as China, Russia, India etc... _________________ 1972 Westy Hardtop/Type-4 2056cc
96mm Biral AA P/C's~7.8:1CR
Headflow Masters New AMC 42x36mm heads w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
73 Web Cam w/Web solids
Dual 40mm IDF Webers - LM-2 - 47.5 idles/125 mains/190 air corr./F11 tubes/28mm Vents - Float height 10.45mm/Drop 32mm
Bosch SVDA w/Pertronix module (7.5 initial 28 total @ 3400rpm)
Bosch W8CC plugs
Pertronix Flamethrower 40K coil
S&S 4-1 w/Walker QP 17862
3 rib 002 Trans
185R14 Hankook tires |
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69rulz Samba Member
Joined: June 07, 2009 Posts: 867 Location: On a trip on my couch
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Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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When your radio is on a static channel and your have non resistor plugs, rev your engine, then radio goes nuts with loud static, white noise _________________ Id rather die on my feet than live a life on my knees Right turn clyde |
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