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Spark plug blew out! Has this happened to anyone?
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sb001
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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 1:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Spark plug blew out! Has this happened to anyone? Reply with quote

I guess it was the Champion spark plugs I was thinking of...

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=363053
vwracerdave wrote:
Never ever, ever use Champion plugs in a VW. They are about one thread too long. That one thread sticking into the combustion chamber will fill up with carbon. When you remove the plug that carbon build-up will strip out the threads in your heads.


https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=4016103
Rusty O'Toole wrote:
I would NEVER use a Champion, AC or other american plug in a VW. Especially Champion.

They seem to be a hair longer than the stock plugs and stick into the combustion chamber a hair farther. When the plug is old and coated with deposits they are awfully hard to unscrew from the cylinder. The knob of deposits on the end of the plug chews the threads of the plug hole and after a few plug changes there are no threads left.

I noticed a long time ago this only happened with Champions not with Bosch.

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FeelthySanchez
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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 6:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Spark plug blew out! Has this happened to anyone? Reply with quote

Does this engine have a lotta miles/abuse/baggage? Valves sealing poorly/guides loose, or maybe she's burning a lotta oil?

Suspect a cracked plug hole: If ya have an inspection mirror, I'd suggest removing the plug & taking a look @ the #3 plug hole using some good light.
I've found that most cracked ones stand out more from the gummy black ring of combustion residue surrounding them than the crack itself - sometimes even a gaping crack is not real obvious 'till the head comes off & is cleaned.
Given below intro, the #3 on that head is probably cracked thru to the valve seat = scrap head, pretty much. Be advised that the purchase price of a Timesert(R) 4412 toolset will run approx the same as some entire reconditioned heads, so it might be time to make a decision or 2.
They can be found in TS classifieds, ACN rents them: http://vwparts.aircooled.net/SearchResults.asp?Search=tools
& there are also some cheaper (asian knockoff) kits out there @ approx 1/3 of the 4412's price: https://www.amazon.com/ABN-Thread-Repair-Rethreadi...4mm+Metric
Use the normal insert (which you'll have to shorten just a bit), ala: https://www.amazon.com/M14x1-25x16-8mm-spark-plug-...F5BJKKRZJE
davidw99 wrote:
My #3 plug has blown out twice about 1,300 miles apart. After the first time it screwed back in and seemed tight but happened again. I had the plug out prior to the first time it happened and I can't remember if it had an indication of being heli-coiled. When screwed in it does seem tight but does not seem to be perfectly straight. I'm guessing that it was cross threaded some time in the past. This is my plan of attack going to the next step if the prior one does not work.
With regard to the time-sert (which I'll likely install sooner than later), would I need a Big-sert or would a regular one work? My thoughts are that a regular one would work since the plug does seem to screw in tight.

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modok wrote:
I would like if you had enough clue to communicate what you are doing.
Ryan Tucker wrote:
Enough clue..Whats that mean?
OldIronSpine wrote:
I'm not sure how compression works.
Turbos don't produce torque, they produce HP. Instead of torque.
The real problem with NA engines is you don't hear the nice whine of the turbo as it spools up.
Before I commit, I'm going to do more research because I don't really know what piston rings are.


Last edited by FeelthySanchez on Wed May 23, 2018 6:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Danwvw
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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 6:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Spark plug blew out! Has this happened to anyone? Reply with quote

Failed Sparkplug incert job:
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FeelthySanchez
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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 7:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Spark plug blew out! Has this happened to anyone? Reply with quote

.
This one looks worse than an old SIR "rebuild" (heavily/poorly MIG welded right up to the OG valve seats, which were left in place):

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



THAT is the best-ever use of some Van Halen concert "bracelets" ......... V V V Shocked

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
[/quote]
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modok wrote:
I would like if you had enough clue to communicate what you are doing.
Ryan Tucker wrote:
Enough clue..Whats that mean?
OldIronSpine wrote:
I'm not sure how compression works.
Turbos don't produce torque, they produce HP. Instead of torque.
The real problem with NA engines is you don't hear the nice whine of the turbo as it spools up.
Before I commit, I'm going to do more research because I don't really know what piston rings are.
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Danwvw
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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 7:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Spark plug blew out! Has this happened to anyone? Reply with quote

The procedure called for hitting the threader punch thing with a hammer, it busted out the weld job on the head, actually took the head back and had it re-welded without an insert and tapped back to a standard 14mm 1/2" hole and it's lasted for 25K miles so far. I plan to replace the head this summer though.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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FeelthySanchez
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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 7:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Spark plug blew out! Has this happened to anyone? Reply with quote

Yep, I noted the fractured "ring" on chamber side: bad metallurgy from a bad weld, & a bit unusual to see it caused by the Timesert seating operation.
25K later means the 2nd welder got it all right, & I assume that the valve seats were reground at that time.
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modok wrote:
I would like if you had enough clue to communicate what you are doing.
Ryan Tucker wrote:
Enough clue..Whats that mean?
OldIronSpine wrote:
I'm not sure how compression works.
Turbos don't produce torque, they produce HP. Instead of torque.
The real problem with NA engines is you don't hear the nice whine of the turbo as it spools up.
Before I commit, I'm going to do more research because I don't really know what piston rings are.
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Danwvw
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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 9:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Spark plug blew out! Has this happened to anyone? Reply with quote

Well, it is still a bit of a mess. The new weld leaks! Did not change valve seat but did re-seat the valve. The plug at 12K miles, when changed, kind of kept turning, finally stopped though. Afraid to change it now! But the engine continues to run strong. I found another set of heads just like those only with good original 1/2" X 14mm threads and are having them done now.
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FeelthySanchez
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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 9:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Spark plug blew out! Has this happened to anyone? Reply with quote

Damn, that sux. But agreed, got to just let it ride for now. That sad ol' head needs to retire!
Overall it's pretty good timing, though: the next tune-up includes 4 new plugs & 2 rebuilt heads.
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modok wrote:
I would like if you had enough clue to communicate what you are doing.
Ryan Tucker wrote:
Enough clue..Whats that mean?
OldIronSpine wrote:
I'm not sure how compression works.
Turbos don't produce torque, they produce HP. Instead of torque.
The real problem with NA engines is you don't hear the nice whine of the turbo as it spools up.
Before I commit, I'm going to do more research because I don't really know what piston rings are.
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davidw99
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 4:55 am    Post subject: Re: Spark plug blew out! Has this happened to anyone? Reply with quote

Well,

I took the spark plug out. It had some stripped treads near the tip. I think I did that the other day. The only tool I had on the highway to reinstall the plug was the VW spark plug "wrench" and jack handle. It doesn't line the plug up very well and the plug was hot so I couldn't use my fingers to start it. However, it explains why it wasn't installed straight. I looked at the plug hole and surrounds with a USB camera and did not see any obvious cracks. I put in 4 new plugs. The plug in the third cylinder tightened down nicely. In fact, I tightened it a bit more than I usually do with plugs. I had considered the OEM spark plug thread fixer kit posted above and glad I didn't get it after the other poster's experience.

I'm going to "watchfully monitor" this and check on the third plug frequently until I am satisfied it's OK or needs more attention.

Thank you for all of the information that has been posted. Very helpful.
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FeelthySanchez
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 7:13 am    Post subject: Re: Spark plug blew out! Has this happened to anyone? Reply with quote

Per the below info, it may soon repeat it's airborne behavior.
All are symptoms that the head is cracked, mate:
davidw99 wrote:
It had some stripped treads near the tip. ..... it wasn't installed straight. ...... In fact, I tightened it a bit more than I usually do with plugs.

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modok wrote:
I would like if you had enough clue to communicate what you are doing.
Ryan Tucker wrote:
Enough clue..Whats that mean?
OldIronSpine wrote:
I'm not sure how compression works.
Turbos don't produce torque, they produce HP. Instead of torque.
The real problem with NA engines is you don't hear the nice whine of the turbo as it spools up.
Before I commit, I'm going to do more research because I don't really know what piston rings are.
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sb001
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 8:17 am    Post subject: Re: Spark plug blew out! Has this happened to anyone? Reply with quote

FeelthySanchez wrote:
.
This one looks worse than an old SIR "rebuild" (heavily/poorly MIG welded right up to the OG valve seats, which were left in place


Every day, the samba knows less and less what it's talking about. It's kind of sad.

Recently purchased SIR rebuilt heads that show absolutely ZERO signs of anything the above poster stated:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


In fact, I think I might take a trip down to GEX pretty soon- their engines are probably perfect.
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bluebus86
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 9:12 am    Post subject: Re: Spark plug blew out! Has this happened to anyone? Reply with quote

Use of a Time Sert does NOT require a hammer blow to install. This is one more reason the Time Sert is superior to many other types of thread repair inserts. the Time Sert has a taper at bottom end, so that when the screw or spark plug is first installed, the end of the Time Sert flares out, thus securing it in place. I have used helicoil, they have backed out, the tang can break off and fall in, I have used spark plug inserts that require a hammer blow, and have had them eventually backout with a plug change. I have used Time Serts and have yet to have one ever fail.
Time Serts are the best in my opinion.

http://www.timesert.com

Bug on with spark!
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Danwvw
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 11:12 am    Post subject: Re: Spark plug blew out! Has this happened to anyone? Reply with quote

That is good to hear, I would still avoid installing them with the head on the engine. Yes, there were actually 3 things wrong with what I did above that caused my insert to fail.

First of all, I had the wrong kind of insert, it was made for a tapered seat spark plug. 2nd I hit it too hard and broke the weld which would have caused problems even with a good insert. (Shop Welded aluminum threads are really soft!)
and then There was the bad weld. It all added up to the failure. (I spoke with the shop about the welds it turns out the first time the weld was done with a welder that was too low of power. The 2nd time they used an arc welder with welding rod and a lot of power and went deeply into the head. (Even with the extra effort the head still leaks slightly through where the welding meets the head around the re-surfaced spark-plug seat). Note the tar-like deposits in the third picture below on the plug after 9000 miles in the engine. The tar is building up all over the head there too.

The Proper Gasket Seat Insert:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Tapered Seat Insert that I installed:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Tar-like deposit on the plug is evidence of a leak:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 12:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Spark plug blew out! Has this happened to anyone? Reply with quote

The tar on the plug is after the arc weld repair?
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Danwvw
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 12:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Spark plug blew out! Has this happened to anyone? Reply with quote

davidw99 wrote:
The tar on the plug is after the arc weld repair?

Yes!

Not sure these would qualify as a matched set?
sb001 wrote:
FeelthySanchez wrote:
.
This one looks worse than an old SIR "rebuild" (heavily/poorly MIG welded right up to the OG valve seats, which were left in place


Every day, the samba knows less and less what it's talking about. It's kind of sad.

Recently purchased SIR rebuilt heads that show absolutely ZERO signs of anything the above poster stated:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


In fact, I think I might take a trip down to GEX pretty soon- their engines are probably perfect.

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