Tracking down Eurovan misfire

[Abscate]

After 2000 miles in three days, it is time for me to assemble the same list - although my T4 only has 90k on him.

Im planning a cooling group refresh this winter..

water pump
cooling manifold
all hoses
thermostat
_________________
.ssS!

[soissisc]

Before this trip I spent all day doing little things that needed to be done that I had been putting off. I installed a new water pump, replaced a couple of o rings in the A/C system that were leaking and refilled that, new bearing in the A/C pulley, and a new driver side CV axle. The coil was not on my radar!
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Mark

68 Westy
92 Jetta (oh it is retired)
99 Eurovan
05 NBC
06 Audi A3
72 Westy (I am going to fix it up)

[soissisc]

So the trusty eurovan brought the family home safe and sound once again. We have been home a few weeks and another issue is starting to surface.

Lately, on cold starts, the van is very difficult to start. The starter turns the engine over (and over and over) but no take off of the engine. Usually the engine fires right up with a blip of the key. I get a strong fuel smell after a session of cranking with no start (So I don't suspect fuel related items). I checked for codes and there are none. The tach needle doesn't move at all during cranking, only when it fires (this seems normal, no?). I don't think that the crank sensor is the culprit, as this is strictly cold start - as in overnight cold start. Then when is does start it automatically drops to a low idle and is sluggish in the pedal response for the first mile or so.

One thing I noticed which is odd and may be my problem - is my coolant temp reading. The gauge still shows completely normal. But I monitor the engine with the torque app on an android device. At cold start up my coolant temp shows 240° F when cold. I am thinking this sensor is bad telling the ECU the car is hot all of the time. I do believe there are 2 or 3 coolant sensors on this van that feed info to different things, so I plan to unplug them one at a time to see which sensor feeds what I am seeing on the torque app. I could only see one easily from above, so I pulled the green one with 4 wires and that is not it.

Once I can get a little more dirty and work from underneath, I will report my findings.

Any ideas?
_________________
Mark

68 Westy
92 Jetta (oh it is retired)
99 Eurovan
05 NBC
06 Audi A3
72 Westy (I am going to fix it up)

[Abscate]

That sounds very much like ' lawn mower syndrome' or excess fuel in the engine causing temporary loss of compression. A bad temp sensor can cause this too, so get those sensors replaced and see if that helps
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.ssS!

[soissisc]

[soissisc]

After much confusion on the Europarts SD website, trying to decide which sensor to order, I just called them. They are great to talk to and they do know what is up with Eurovans for sure. We narrowed it down to the only sensor that it could be, so I ordered it. Even though the web site says "for temperature gauge and after-run coolant pump" - it is for the ECU on my 99 GLS. Don't forget to order a new O-ring as well.

The sensor has arrived and it appears to fix the problem. I have not installed it, but I did plug it in and the EV fires right up as it should and the torque app says a more believable temperature that the ECU is seeing at cold start up. So now just install it already!

_________________
Mark

68 Westy
92 Jetta (oh it is retired)
99 Eurovan
05 NBC
06 Audi A3
72 Westy (I am going to fix it up)

[soissisc]

Just a quick update on the van. Just replaced trans fluid cooler seals and then also the torque converter seal. After that had #3 injector die. So just got done replacing that injector with a new one.

Also turned over 200K miles between the TC seal and the failed injector. Woo Hoo!
_________________
Mark

68 Westy
92 Jetta (oh it is retired)
99 Eurovan
05 NBC
06 Audi A3
72 Westy (I am going to fix it up)

[soissisc]

Since having the van back on the road it sounds like I have a driver side wheel bearing that is grinding. I did drive through some pretty heavy rain / water the night that the injector died. Perhaps some water got in the bearing? It seems odd that Friday morning no noticeable grinding sound and then Saturday evening it is grinding so loud that I had to pull over to see what was rubbing (not that I found anything).

I jacked up the front end and in neutral the driver side is harder to turn the wheel than the pass side with the wheel on. With the wheel off, I cant even turn the disk by hand. I may unbolt the caliper to see if that has any effect, but to really feel the wheel bearing I think I need to get the CV joint out of there.
_________________
Mark

68 Westy
92 Jetta (oh it is retired)
99 Eurovan
05 NBC
06 Audi A3
72 Westy (I am going to fix it up)

[soissisc]

So I swapped out the driver side wheel bearing, and it is still loud inside. I am planning on the passenger side wheel bearing this weekend. It is so hard to tell where the roar is coming from. When I turn left it quiets down. I put a Db meter by the front driver floor and it is two or 3 db quieter than the passenger wheel well at 60 mph.
Frustrating.
_________________
Mark

68 Westy
92 Jetta (oh it is retired)
99 Eurovan
05 NBC
06 Audi A3
72 Westy (I am going to fix it up)

[Joshwa]

Did you replace that sensor on the upper radiator hose? On a 93, that febi sensor you have does list as a temp/after run pump sensor. The temperature side being used for ac cutoff if the coolant is too hot. I looked at the 99 diagram for that same sensor it shows as ac cutoff also and and the other side engaging full power to the fans when the coolant is too hot. I don’t see any leads to the ecu or cluster, but maybe it doesn’t matter since the trouble seems to have gone away with the cluster needle.
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93 Weekender TDI conversion (AHU)
93 MV TDI conversion (1Z)
Weekender rear cot
Late model cabin air filter on 93
Euro spec bumper install on 93

[soissisc]

My upper sensor is a 2 wire and I traced it back to the aux coolant pump. That does not match what Europarts SD was saying, so I took a gamble on this one and it has worked. It seemed like other vans have a 4 pin sensor in the upper position, and two pin to feed data to the ECU. Mine has the 2 pin in the upper for the coolant pump only and a 4 pin for the ECU and what else I do not know, maybe AC but I have not looked into it closely enough.
_________________
Mark

68 Westy
92 Jetta (oh it is retired)
99 Eurovan
05 NBC
06 Audi A3
72 Westy (I am going to fix it up)

[Joshwa]

Looked at the wiring again and see that the coolant temperature sensor is also set up with two sensors. I see how they could get the naming incorrect, since they look the same, but function very different. So be on the lookout for that other 4 pin sensor which is for AC cutoff and full speed fans. For the coolant temp sensor pair, one just does a loop with the ecu and the other is for the temperature gauge. If you PM me your email, I can mail you the wiring diagrams for the 99 if you don't already have it. It's just sloppily phone shot pages, but is clear enough to be able to see all the information. 15meg.
_________________
93 Weekender TDI conversion (AHU)
93 MV TDI conversion (1Z)
Weekender rear cot
Late model cabin air filter on 93
Euro spec bumper install on 93

[Abscate]

[soissisc]

So the new wheel bearing is in and that has cured the roar! That is exciting!

Yes, new FAG bearing - Made In Slovakia - here is to hoping!

I changed this very same bearing about 10 years ago with a FAG bearing.

I am terrible at taking pictures, sorry.
_________________
Mark

68 Westy
92 Jetta (oh it is retired)
99 Eurovan
05 NBC
06 Audi A3
72 Westy (I am going to fix it up)

[soissisc]

latest issue (it seems like I only post problems):

Steering wheel fell off!

I was backing out of a parking spot and the wheel felt weird, and when I went into drive and started turning the wheel the other way to pull out it pretty much fell off in my lap. Yikes! For the short story, I got the air bag off, and the nut that threads on the shaft was loose and just laying in there and the shaft dropped down enough that the splines would not engage. The clock spring is destroyed. We are super lucky this happened in a parking space.

Does anyone know the correct stack up of components in there? I have a spring, domed washer, and white plastic spacer ring that I assume goes on the shaft first, then the steering wheel. Then a thick flat washer, hex nut, and then that spring type ring over top of everything?

Any help is appreciated. Wow, I am a little rattled by this.

Thanks, Mark. 99 GLS Eurovan
_________________
Mark

68 Westy
92 Jetta (oh it is retired)
99 Eurovan
05 NBC
06 Audi A3
72 Westy (I am going to fix it up)

[Abscate]

I’ll find the diagram for my 2002 and post, it is *probably* the same
_________________
.ssS!

[Fun2Phish]

Hello just joined and would like to thank everyone for this great thread.
I inherited a 97 Eurovan which now has 46K miles from my brother 2 years ago.
He was not at all mechanical and paid for this to be serviced.
I on the other hand am very skilled with my hands worked on cars my entire life and still to this day change my own oil.
I have the dreaded misfire of which has been a problem for many years. I spoke to the mechanic who worked on it and looked at all the service records.
Im leaning towards the most obvious which is the injectors and as soon as I find the 10 pin connecter I will test the resistance and decide if the coils are good and then take them off.
So my ? is when they are removed should I send them to Witchhunter or buy new ones?
I found a set of 6 Bosch replacements for $260 here is a link I hope this is allowed
https://www.ebay.com/itm/SET-OF-6-NEW-OEM-BOSCH-FU...SwYIJeKhGA

Would these be better then having my OEMs cleaned since they only have 46K on them.
As for any other info I should know about once I get down into it would be great. I found an Intake gasket set on Rockauto which I will buy but what else should I look at replacing.
I think I saw to replace the PCV so that's a go. I also read valve cover gasket but hearing conflicted story as someone said I have to replace the entire cover as its once piece which makes no sense to me.
Anyhow Ive been doing some repairs and maintenance so any help would be great.
Also where is the onboard battery charger located? Im looking into putting a Lithium battery and want to change out the charger also as I think it wont work for the Lithium.
Thank you in advance for any help

[soissisc]

Hello,

The misfires could be the coil pack, wires, or plugs. It could also be the injectors but I would rule them out if possible. Checking with the ohm reading at the harness connection right at the intake manifold is the way to go. I always had to lay on the ground and access the plug from above and it is a little bit fiddly to check each pin but totally doable. What code do you get for the misfire(s)? For me that P1217 was the one that points to the injectors themselves. I don't recall offhand what the codes are for misfires on the spark side, but they are different numbers.

If you do end up getting into pulling the injectors, you dont need to pull the valve cover. I always took off the throttle body and elbow together. There is a gasket between the elbow and the manifold. There is a gasket where the EGR bolts onto the manifold, there is an upper and lower manifold gasket. I aways had to lower the AC compressor down out of the way and the alternator down out to access a couple of the left side bolts.

I would wait to order a replacement injector, I damaged some of mine when I pulled it apart the first time, but I had 3X the mileage that you have. The seals were hardened and adhered to the manifold. The injectors are sandwiched between the upper and lower manifold. ( I could punch someone for that design!) Do not grab the injectors by the electrical connection, that will just break right off. If you plan to reuse good injectors, plan on getting new o rings, at least the ones on each end.

Not sure about those Bosch replacements, the stock ones are Marelli Magnetti, and I thought that was the only right one to get.

Hopefully it is a coil pack or plug wires!

Let us know if you have any questions.
_________________
Mark

68 Westy
92 Jetta (oh it is retired)
99 Eurovan
05 NBC
06 Audi A3
72 Westy (I am going to fix it up)

[Fun2Phish]

Hi thank you for all your reply. It was not very hard to check the 10pin connector from the top but it only uses 8 pins and 2 are left blank. Hope that's the proper one. All tested to about 11 ohms so I'm assuming the coils in them are fine.
Apparently this has always been a problem that he would get this misfire.
The van seems to always run fine with a slight misfire as you can feel there is a problem.
After a while while sitting at a stoplight or idling for a while the check engine light ones on.
I've now since removed the the battery cable to do a reset and drive a while then go try to pass smog.
I've not checked the code yet as I don't own a scan guage and have to go to the auto parts store to have it checked. However maybe its time to buy one.
The coil pack, plugs and wires 6 years ago and 4K miles had been put on it.
Then another coil pack was replaced before I was given this van and has 6K miles on it. They used a HUC 138434 replacement.
It seems like the 1st coil pack went bad pretty fast at 4K miles
I guess the thing to do is drive it for 50 miles or so and take it to get smogged and see if it passes.
Buy my own scan gauge as I should own one any recommendations as to which one you might buy.
And what would the next thing in your opinion to do?
The Mechanic had also mentioned to me about replacing the Vapor Canister Valve as that could be part of the problem.
I can see you are very much like me and enjoy figuring these things out and you seem a lot like me in that sense.
Thanks so much for all your great input on this thread.

[soissisc]

On mine, in the dark of night I can see arcing on the coil pack and also hear it with you head in there under the hood. The darkness makes it easy to see the arcs. You can mist the coil pack area with water before starting to help out with the probability of arcing. I think my replacement coil pack was beru? (I think). I purchased new wires from FCP Euro, I believe, they are identical to the VW wires, so there is that. If one cylinder misfires, I would look to what gets spark to that cylinder. IF many are misfiring then maybe the coil is to blame.

Some people have encountered a misfire by something to do with the serp belt. Static or something. But if your injectors check out (thank God!) my next bet is arcing at the coil pack / plug wire connection point, plug wire / engine block arcing, or poorly seated plug wires on the plugs, or fouled plugs or plugs.

I have used the torque app on my android phone and the bluetooth plug for the car side. (I can see what brand that thing is, I can't recall right now. I got it on ebay I think). It will tell you which cylinder is misfiring so that narrows it down some. And you can read trans temp too, and a bunch of other things. I also have the VCDS cable but rarely need to be that involved for this car.
_________________
Mark

68 Westy
92 Jetta (oh it is retired)
99 Eurovan
05 NBC
06 Audi A3
72 Westy (I am going to fix it up)