Rebuilding a 2.3, what upgrades do you suggest?

[deepseeman]

So I bought a 91 syncro and it has a 2.3 GW motor in it. Long story short, I need to rebuild, although it only has 70k on it (no oil pressure)
I know you can spend thousands in upgrades, but what are the solid proven upgrades for a daily driver?
_________________
in the barn:

61' Double Cab-restored driver
91 SYNCRO

[16CVs]

Find a proper Engine builder / Machine shop to check the case and crank. I think you can cut the case twice. My engine builder was able to fix my 2.1 that had bad oil pressure by just checking numerous cranks he had and was able to put it together with standard bearings.
Mine used to always buzz on a freeway off ramp or at a sudden stop as well as some times when down shifting.
Lots of people can Build an engine, but you need to start with everything in spec.

Stacy
_________________
1987 Syncro Westfalia Triple knob (bastard)
1989 Syncro Tristar Triple knob "Swedish"
2013 Jetta Hybrid a true "Zwitter"
Samba member # 14980
Call anytime number 650 722 4914 .
Keep Your van running and upkept tastefully for the love of the hobby.
Don't let your van end up in an "abortions" thread.

[Steve M.]

What 16CV said is what you need to have checked. I'd try Rockie Jennings and see what his turn around time is, but in San Diego there should also be some good VW machinists.
Ask around.
_________________
This free advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.

There are seven days in a week. Someday is not one of them.

[borninabus]

what kind of upgrades are you interested in?

engine / trans?
reliability/ modernization?
camping / tailgating?
sound / video?

maybe a bit much, but you get it.
with the 2.3 it seems some engine upgrades would be fun. if that's what you're thinking too, tell a bit more about your --other vws-- i mean engine. i always thought that c/w crank, a cam and some head work, ratio rockers and a nice exhaust would be really fun! just like any other rig
_________________
88 Van WBX, A/T - 13 JSW TDI 6M/T - 2012 Touareg TDI Sport

[deepseeman]

I'm just asking for engine mods for reliability and daily performance. I already have the GW stainless exhaust. I know there are injectors, fuel delivery systems and such, but are they worth the money.
_________________
in the barn:

61' Double Cab-restored driver
91 SYNCRO

[bobbyblack]

DeepSeeMan,

I'd like to hear what oil you are using, and what oil filter. You say no oil pressure, what kind of instrument are you using to tell you that? At what RPM's? If this is a GW with 70K, did you ask them any of these questions, by chance? If they rebuilt it, all you need is the case number, and they will have the sheet on the build. That will let you know what case mod they did, if any. It is totally possible that they only replaced the crank bearings, and did not line bore it.

If you are using some other oil than 20W50, and the Mann filter, you should start over and get all your "no pressure" issue figured out from the ground up, having used the proper oil and filter to do this testing.

I would really NOT give up on this engine so quickly. Even something as little as the previous build having used a paper oil pump gasket could be your problem. If it is there, get the pulley off, and get that paper gasket out of there. AND, if it is the stock pump, get a high flow pump in there.

-bobby
_________________
'87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch

[jberger]

I am also curious about the "no oil pressure". Like... at all? Pump not priming? Or does it just have sub par pressure?

By definition the GW 2.3 has already been "upgraded". It is a non stock, performance engine. There are additional "upgrades" to be had for longevity sake.. not really for performance unless you want to re-engineer what you have.

What a wonderful world it would be if GW did keep build sheets on every engine they sent out and in response to a call, would provide it. I don't know that's not true... but would be surprised if it were.

J

[bluebus86]

no oil pressure may mean a failed pump. check the pump, check clearances on it. also I wonder how the oil pickup tube is doing. if driven with no pressure, engine is likely ruined in many other ways however.

a competent shop, good machinist is important to have for a rebuild. assembly requires proper fitting, machining, checking etc It is not a simple Lincoln Log build.


Bug On In a Powerful Van
_________________
Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information

Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022

[deepseeman]

Here is a hopefully quick summary of my oil issue;
Bought the car in jackson, wy. Flew in and drove it back to San Diego. The van had the oil pressure buzzing issue at random times. The motor burnt thru 1.5 qrts on the drive home. I replaced the circuit board and both oil sensors. Changed the oil to 20w50 and mann filter. the oil buzzer kept going off at 2k rpm and flicker at idle. I added an oil pressure guage with the oil filter adapter plate sensor mounting. At start up, Iget good pressure. At operating temps I get 18psi at 4k and 2-3 at idle. The motor was rebuilt back in 2005 and the van only driven 70k since. GW suggested doing a compression check and oil bleed down test. I am just opting to rebuild.
_________________
in the barn:

61' Double Cab-restored driver
91 SYNCRO

[16CVs]

I don't trust off the shelf rebuilds ! ! ! I want a builder machinist that I walk up and talk to. My builder knew my problem, but didn't build it any different then he would have built any other engine.
Low oil pressure is low oil pressure. Period. Using a larger pump is just a band aid.
There are a ton of great VW people down your way. CB performance, De mello machine, Pauter . . .
Most of the GW parts are proprietary but they are very good at getting you any replacement parts you need. I had a 2.4 with unknown miles from an engine swap that was using oil. We broke it down to see its issue and GW supplied me with rings and a few other pieces I needed.
I ended up doing a Subaru conversion, only because a cheap Take Out showed and it promptly chucked a rod 2 K miles later. I wish I had stuck with my boxer. I run a Proper DJ in my truck which weighs in at 5700 Lbs and it runs every bit as well as my 2.2 Subaru.
Don't drink the cool aid, build a proper WBX. Spend the Delta on a new Harness and other hard parts.

Stacy
_________________
1987 Syncro Westfalia Triple knob (bastard)
1989 Syncro Tristar Triple knob "Swedish"
2013 Jetta Hybrid a true "Zwitter"
Samba member # 14980
Call anytime number 650 722 4914 .
Keep Your van running and upkept tastefully for the love of the hobby.
Don't let your van end up in an "abortions" thread.

[riceye]

GoWesty engines all have overheat or melt tabs on the engine that would indicate if the engine has suffered an extreme overheat episode. While I don't remember the location I think that they are easily spotted from below. This may help you decide what course you take.

Another thought, the compression ratio of your 2.3 (there have been a few different iterations and I'm not sure if the CR remained constant through time) may require higher octane (89) fuel. In fact, this may have contributed to it's demise if the PO did not show due diligence. You may want to lower the compression ratio with your rebuild. Sure, you'll lose hp but with better injectors and ratio rockers you may be able to recover the performance loss. Your fuel costs will drop and you'll never have a problem finding the right fuel.

My $0.02
_________________
'87 Westy Weekender - daily driver on salt-free roads

There's gonna be some changes made.

“I find that things usually go well right up until the moment they don't.” - Ahwahnee

"Quality isn't method. It's the goal toward which the method is aimed." - Socrates, later quoted by R.M. Pirsig

[Steve M.]

Just out of curiosity, have you checked your oil pressure relief spring for being the correct length?
_________________
This free advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.

There are seven days in a week. Someday is not one of them.

[deepseeman]

[Steve M.]

[Steve M.]

This is just my experience and you can take it as i say it and think about it.

My 91 syncro I got from Germany had a rebuilt 2.1 wbx in it. I spent the winter getting various things repaired and up to spec for how I wanted them or thought they should be.
I went out to Syncro thing in Moab getting there the last day so nobody probably remembers me.

I have normally been using Castrol 20w-50 down in Florida on my other vans, but decided to try Lube-Moly 10w-60 oil for the road trip. I had oil pressure problems for the entire road trip out to Moab and the whole summer. I stayed in Moab for the summer with the Lube-Moly oil and had oil pressure problems the entire summer. I had a new oil pressure relief spring in there too. All new silicone coolant hoses too and new radiator,
It was hot out there so I felt right about having the 10w-60 oil in there, but I did change oil back to Castrol 20w-50 halfway through the summer.
I still had the oil pressure problems though. It was like the oil pressure spring was opening and dumping oil, but at the same time the oil pressure was also spiking to 50psi at 3500-4000rpm. WTH right?
Oil temp was high up around 220 degrees as measured from the bottom of the engine location where the drain plug is. (Ambient temps were up to 106 degrees)
Most of the time it was in the normal operating range. It was those drops and spiking that was telling me I needed a new engine along with the high Oil Temps (running Vanistons excellent Syncro Oil cooler as well.)

At the end of summer I drove back to Portsmouth Virginia from Moab for a job, with fresh 20w-50 in it for the drive. Same Oil Temps and pressure fluctuations.

Once in Virginia with steady paychecks in hand I changed oil again this time to Mobil 1 15w-50 and used Mobil's oil filter.

Everything changed with that oil change. Pressures stable - no fluctuations from low to high. running solid at 2900 rpm where it should be per VW.
Oil Temps stable at 180 degrees. Idle oil pressure when hot is 9-10 psi.

I'm sure there is some damage from that summer two years ago, but I'm going to run this engine into the ground before putting the rebuilt DJ into it. It's running great and the only answer I have is changing the oil.
It is my daily driver when I'm around to drive it.

I want to say there might be a problem with an oil passage being obstructed or there was a problem with the Oil Pressure Relief Spring. but i do not know.
My oil pressure now with Mobil 1 is above 45 at 4000, but until I tear it down and check the flow of the oil passages I'm not going to know.

I tried a lot of driving methods and really paid attention to it with the oil problems being I was across the country away from my storage and spare engines. I never let it overheat-it got hot, but I shut down and let it cool a lot!

So maybe try a different oil and see what happens. Your gauges are the only thing that will tell you.
_________________
This free advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.

There are seven days in a week. Someday is not one of them.

[mikemtnbike]

While I would be shocked- I mean shocked- if changing oil helped oil pressures as low as the OPs, I will say that I also had oil pressure improvements from changing from dino 20w50 to Mobil1. I went from 8-9 at very hot idle (after running on the highway in summer for an hour or more in 90-degree plus heat) to 10-11. Just another data point, deepseaman, again, I think you need a rebuild no matter what.

Markswagen on this site is mobile vw mechanic in San Diego, I'd 100% be searching for his profile and having him come look at it.
_________________
1991 Vanagon GL 2.1 AT Westfauxlia. "Frankie" Totaled https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=764510&highlight=carnage
1995 Eurovan Camper "Marzivan"
2020 GTI SE manual

[deepseeman]

[deepseeman]

Anyone know a reputable engine rebuilder here in San Diego. My rebuilder is going on an unannounced vacation....good for him, bad for me...lol
_________________
in the barn:

61' Double Cab-restored driver
91 SYNCRO

[hdenter]

Just about everyone who has installed Marco's injectors has raved about them. RMW/tencent exhaust would ad a few more ponies. One of the larger oil pumps from Marco or GW would be nice, but I think you should already have one if it was a GW build. 1.25 rockers are popular. The vast majority of tuning issues people have are related to worn out grounds and wiring problems, so maybe a new/rebuilt harness. If you really want to put out some buck, get the new FI system from GW. It has a knock sensor and would protect your motor if you do the performance exhaust and 1.25 rockers. Good luck!

Hans
_________________
'79 triple white convertible bug
'84 sunroof vanagon
'85 weekender

[DanHoug]

i would consider the following to protect a new motor:

- new radiator
- RMW coolant tank
- steel coolant manifold
- Intrepid Overland oil cooler
- oil pressure & temp instrumentation
- fuse or remove PS switch
- new Gates 30R9 fuel hoses and eliminate fuel firewall barb
- new fuel pressure requlator
_________________
-dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.

'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd

Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com