Air Conditioner System Upgrades: Hoses, condenser, etc.

[cellerdoor]

Thanks for the information Howesight, very helpful.

I'm planning on using the Eaton Aeroquip EZ clip hose system on the van, and they make charge ports that also have switch ports which will be located at the compressor. Need to make sure my replacement 709 compressor has the necessary wiring to work with the trinary switch and map out the connections. At least Ill get the switch port built in with the new hoses.

My van does have the 3 stage rad fan, and I replaced the resistor last year. Works really well. Ill have to try and figure out the wiring from the trinary switch to the rad fan since that probably means running wire to the front of the van. I also remember reading something about how the rad fan and ac operation is already linked in these vans but cant remember the details. Its probably for the units that already have the pressure switches and does what you describe.

I also have to switch my compressor plan. Cant use the rabbit ear style connections since with a 90 degree fitting and a charge port, it will hit the underside of the engine lid. I'm going to call Nostalgic about a different head cap.
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1986 Westy

[campism]

[Wellington]

As I mentioned earlier, I used the Nostalgic 709 and had them change the head to accept my 1985 style hose fittings, the fittings are the same size, the hoses are not. The service ports are in the lines, right after the compressor.
What style of service ports are you going to use? The original R12? or 134?

I have another complete Behr front A/C system in my basement. I just checked it out, cause I was pretty sure it had "rabbit ear" fittings. In dead it does. It is a 509 compressor. The head has a "block" which is secured to it with 2 allen head bolts. This block incorporates the "rabbit ears" and the R12 service ports. The hoses have no service ports.
My Westy has the flying saucer expansion valve, the Behr system has the square block style expansion valve.
I had planed to install the Behr system, hearing the Westy style was a poor performer, but after I got my system cleaned up and working, I'm very happy with the performance. Again many thanks to Terry K!!
If it was possible, I dream of having both, then the fan could be on low and still have cooling in the front.

[cellerdoor]

Campism, I saw those threads where they cut the slot in the cabinet for the hose, but my cabinet is different and I think it would completely destroy what little structural integrity this thing has.

The drain holes cant be moved since they line up with the holes in the other cabinets and van body. I think I may need a couple buddies to get this thing back in place or crib it. I am going to strap the condensate pan to the evap.

Wellington, I'm going to have NA put a different cap on the 709. This is where the whole long pilot/short pilot hose fitting issue comes to play since there are very limited long pilot fittings in the Aeroquip EZ clip system which may not be able to hook into the back of the 709. I don't think long pilots are essential but want to clear this up before buying these parts. I'm going to discuss with Eaton on Monday.

I'm also having the entire system built to 134a but have the components R12 (or redtek) compatible. Id like to go redtek but I'm weighing the ability for any shop to charge/recharge the system (R134a) vs buying the equipment and charging/recharging the system myself (redtek).
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1986 Westy

[dobryan]

[cellerdoor]

More info on O-Ring fitting pilot's:

All connectors come in long pilot or short pilot, and every hose that is on my van has the long pilots. There are far more EZ clip fittings that have the short pilot version.

My Google-fu produced no information on if this is critical or not, and all of my new components don't specify needing one style or the other. I'm starting to think this isn't critical since the longer pilot just extends down the male sides tube farther, but since this affects every joint in the pipe system I want to be sure.
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1986 Westy

[MarkWard]

I don't think using short pilots will be an issue if that is what you are asking.
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☮️

[cellerdoor]

[dobryan]

[Howesight]

Hey Cellar:

Your trinary switch needs to go in the liquid line after the condenser. Nostalgic Air sells receiver-driers that have a port you can use to mount a trinary switch. The high and low pressure switch wires go in series in the wire powering your compressor clutch. Your system might use a relay for the actual power to the clutch (the 1986 on Vanagons do), in which case you connect to the relay.

The "medium fan speed" is easily wired through a new relay supplied from the 50 amp fusible link behind the dash on the far left, and then connecting to the "middle" resistor. The three-speed fan essentially uses direct power for the highest speed, and then a low-impedance resistor for medium and a higher impedance resistor for the slow "AC on" speed. Look at the Bentley wiring diagram for the three-speed fan and you'll see what I mean.

Here are the relevant pages in the Bentley (still tabbed from my project):
87.5
97.68
97.81
97.82
97.119
97.140
97.141
97.200

The above pages show the 1986 and later wiring, the two-speed fan system, the three-speed fan system, and the AC wiring system. I used all these diagrams to construct an AC control system for my own home-built DIY front AC system, basically re-creating the wiring and logic the factory used. One difference in my design is that instead of using the VW AC relay which has two relays in one, I used two separate relays so I don't have to rely on VW's unobtainium-based relays when the supply dries up.

If it seems I am shilling for Nostalgic Air, the truth is that they have good selection, great service, and actually sell components as well as full kits while their competitors are not at all interested in selling parts and components - - kits only.

Regarding 134A vs RedTek, have no fear. If you use PAG oil, you can release RedTek from your system and install R134A any time you want to increase your expense and reduce your AC performance - - er, I mean, have an AC tech work on your AC.
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'86 Syncro Westy SVX

[cellerdoor]

[cellerdoor]

Soooo close!

Nostalgic Air no longer carries the 709 with the option of the MD style back plate which has the screw on fittings coming off the back. Only the rabbit ears sticking up top.

I have about 3 inches from the compressor top to the bottom of the engine lid. A 90 degree O-Ring fitting takes almost 2", and the charge ports would take another 1". Might be able to make this fit, but the trinary switch wont be able to fit in this location.

I think at this point my options are to use the Sanden 508 which comes with the back screw on fittings, or relocate the charge and switch ports to the lines that go up to and back from the evap. (accessible from the closet). I'm leaning toward still using the 709 and moving the ports.

I also took a quick look at the compressor wiring.

The red power wire exits the driver side engine bay, and there is a yellow/green wire that goes into a main wiring bundle and heads out of the engine bay on the passenger side. Too cold today to lay on the ground and trace this out, and need to also consult the Bentley.
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1986 Westy

[cellerdoor]

[cellerdoor]

Finalized the components for the AC replacement and have placed the orders.

I was able to still use the Eaton Aeroquip EZ Clip System and will be assembling the hose sections myself, although every fitting now has to be a 90 degree fitting since that's basically all you can get in the long pilot female O-Ring. It will be nice to run the hose through the van fitting-less, and then crimp the fittings on with exact lengths. No more fighting the fittings through holes, grommets, etc.

Under $900 for the parts and tools which replaces every piece of the system except the Evaporator which is not available. The redtec will add another $100 when I get to that stage.

Now for the next two weeks while the parts come in I can figure out the wiring to the Trinary switch and install my new radio and speakers.
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1986 Westy

[cellerdoor]

Just received all my parts for the installation and can highly recommend Nostalgic Air for the Compressor, Condenser and Trinary switch, The Hose Warehouse (Murdock Co) for the Eaton hose and fittings, and of course McMaster Carr for the hardware.

Already got the compressor and new belts on this weekend. While the old compressor was out I went through the engine bay and tightened everything up and corrected some wiring that was badly patched. Also cleaned all grounds.

Dryer is slightly smaller but is much shinier than the original. Ought to look good in the wheel well.

Goods from Eaton. Hose is much smaller and more flexible, and the ends are basically an ear clamp/O-Ring system with locking cages:

And of course the grommets, clamps etc to secure the hose to and through the van. Wish MC had smaller bags of stuff (anybody need some of these?)

I'm going to work from the condenser back and from the compressor forward, ending up at the evaporator for the final hose length adjustments.

The trinary switch will be on a fitting at the dryer, and I think I'm going to install the switch but not wire it until the system is up and running so that I can charge the lines easier. Still trying to decipher the Bentley wiring diagrams and determine if I need to take the Schrader valve out of the 1/4 port before installing the switch and how to make a tight connection.
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1986 Westy

[MarkWard]

My dryer had to 1/8 inch pipe thread fittings with plugs. One has the solder over pressure fuse, the other my trinary switch screwed into which also had 1/8 pipe threads after I removed the plug.

In my experience, if you are talking about a switch that screws down on a service type port, it has an O ring and requires the shreader valve to be in place. The screw on switch has a tang that depresses the shreader valve. This way you can replace the switch without loosing much gas. Ford and GM used this type at one time. Make sense? Do I understand your question?
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[cellerdoor]

Here are the pieces, I think this is the way its supposed to work:

The switch is going on a 90 degree fitting with a 1/4" service port/Schrader.
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1986 Westy

[cellerdoor]

Trying to figure out the Trinary switch wiring. Even though I have an 86 model year the AC system and wiring is more like the 85 version, but the fuse/relay panel is early 86. Here's my panel and the bentley shows no AC relays here:

Here's the wiring for the 85 AC system from the bentley, and what is in the van is almost exactly as its shows:

I cant find the AC relays shown in the red box. The Bentley says they are in the left B Pillar cover.

Where is this on a full camper?
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1986 Westy

[nevadaesh]

[T3 Pilot]

Just thinking about the orientation of your suction/discharge ports on the new compressor, would it help to rotate the compressor 90 degrees to the driver side in order to avoid clearance issues with the engine cover?

Really like the thread, images are great.
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1988 Vanagon

The most important part in every vehicle is the nut behind the wheel......