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Brand new Syncro Tranny. I have a Question.
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Jeff's Old Volks Home
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 2:49 pm    Post subject: Brand new Syncro Tranny. I have a Question. Reply with quote

Will a Brand New Old Stock Syncro transmission built Oct. 18 2005 from South Africa have the latest 3/4 slider? and how would I know if the case is aluminum or magnesium?
Thanks, Jeff
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Syncro Jael
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It should have all the improvements they made in SA to deal with the larger 5 cylinder engine, oil plates, aluminum gear carrier, and aluminum differential case. Only a few of those are still around Wink for purchase Wink

But there are much more knowledgable people on here to chime in.
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IdahoDoug
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the chamfered slider edges were factory starting in 90/91 so you should be fine. Magnesium components are a darker grey when it and aluminum are both new to compare. That is a good question to know - anyone?
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hans j
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pretty sure my new trans already had it, didn't see it on the invoice. And it's actually 100% aluminum, not just the gear carrier and differential case. This looks like my date stamp:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


And you should be able to scrape off a little bit and burn it. If it doesn't light up, it's aluminum.
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Jeff's Old Volks Home
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was guessing as much. I think the whole thing is aliminum. I just bought 2 of these units. I'm now so broke I can't afford to pay attention!!!
I hope Mrs. Hogue is not lurking here. Just kidding.
Jeff
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IdahoDoug
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Holy crap - nice purchase! You've gotta take a picture of those side by side - doubt anyone from this day forward will be able to do that shot.
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Jeff's Old Volks Home
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 6:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will, one is already here the other is scheduled to arrive in a week or so.
I'd like to post more pictures. Someone is likely interested in the stuff we do here.
Jeff
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snowsyncro
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jeff, I am certain those are aluminum housings. I have one of those SA Syncro transmissions, and I have also purchased separately SA aluminum gear carrier and main housings. I have compared the castings and they are identical in every casting flaw. For example:

SA 094 main housing...
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Replacement aluminum (heavy) main housing…
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Given the manufacturing date (post-1990) I have just assumed they have the later 3-4 slider hub.

Regarding the oiling plates; because the label says "Made in South Africa" I had assumed it would be fitted with the SA oiling plates. I was disappointed to discover it is not. Here is a photo showing 4th gear (engaged), taken through the oil fill hole. If the 4th gear oiling plate were present you would not be able to see 4th gear -- the plate would block it.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


RonC
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insyncro
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No oiling plates, but fancy paint marks. Laughing
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Jeff's Old Volks Home
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Ron... I'm going to use one in my diesel syndrome weekender. The only catch is I'm going to loose my locking diff. No big deal, I'll add a decoupler and uses the switch to operate it. In the end hey each costed me a little less than you paid Steele, but I didn't need a core to return.
Jeff
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Jeff's Old Volks Home
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would it be a good idea to paint? Clear?Or just Frame them?
Jeff
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insyncro
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jeff's Old Volks Home wrote:
Would it be a good idea to paint? Clear?Or just Frame them?
Jeff


This topic is highly debated in other communities I partake in.
Some say painting them will trap heat inside.
I have seen some coatings that are supposed help move the heat from the cases and helps displace heat.

One of the trans I purchased recently went into a Syncro and promptly saw road salt....you would not want to frame it.
Yup, that fast.
I purposely did not coat it as a test.
Don't worry, I bought a few of the remans and will frame one.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My "donor" Syncro van had an aluminum case 094 it must have been replaced by a new VW unit sometime in the 1990s. The casting dates were 1991 on it, see the thread "Syncro trans rebuild" for a side by side comparison of my aluminum case to Paul's magnesium case 094. I also have one of the Ebay 094 New Old Stock (NOS) VW of South Africa trans axels it is also aluminum. I would think all these NOS South African cases will be aluminum, color should be very silver compared to the grey of the earlier weaker magnesium cases. The magnesium main case weight bare is 13lbs where Aluminum case is 18lbs. Weigh your 094 then maybe someone can get us a weight of a magnesium case 094 assembly. Difference should be 8-10 lbs minimum I would think.

My replacement "donor van" 094 did have the good 3/4th gear sliding hub but, Derek Drew has recently brought to light even those may not be as strong as they seem. Weddle has a really nice HD 3/4 slider that should probably be used on TDI or high HP 094 builds.

I can probably convert a non locking 094 main case to accept locker provisions, would probably run $250-300 I'll have to attempt one first or you can install a Peloquin TBD which will probably be 95% as good as the VW locker plus it's automatic in operation.

I plan on painting my 094 with VHT motorcycle engine case paint, it transfers heat better and keeps salt corrosion away!
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insyncro
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Derek is amazing Exclamation
I thought I spent a lot of time with parts, vans and researching.

I think he is still on the fence about additional coatings.
Maybe he will chime in with some info.
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snowsyncro
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jeff's Old Volks Home wrote:
Thanks Ron... I'm going to use one in my diesel syndrome weekender. The only catch is I'm going to loose my locking diff. No big deal, I'll add a decoupler and uses the switch to operate it. In the end hey each costed me a little less than you paid Steele, but I didn't need a core to return.
Jeff


I don't have the invoice close, but my notes say $3850 + $900 core. That was to replace a transmission that was pretty much worthless so I did not have a core. I think I got a discount from that, 20% maybe.

That was for a locker though.

About the coating; Dylan and Derek are the go-to guys for that I would say. I researched the subject a few years ago about the heat dissipation. Remembering my school days and black-body radiation I was interested in whether colour selection would make any difference. I concluded that it would not, given the relatively low temperatures involved. I think that is what I concluded. Dylan touched on coatings that improve heat dissipation and that would be a thermal conductivity thing. I can see that having some effect. Fluid film at the very least of course, the heat of these things is going to tend to thin out any waxy type product would be my guess but I don't know that. My plan is to paint it with something first, I don't know with what but whatever sticks the best I guess. I used to be an industrial painter and for hot oil refinery towers we had an aluminum-based paint, very runny almost like water, lays down a very thin protective coating. I might try to source something similar. It even looks like aluminum when it dries.

Dylan mentioned salt and unprotected Syncro transmissions. It is even worse on the Syncro because dirt and salt gets up in the space between the trans and the gas tank, where it is very difficult to flush. Then, when the tank straps rust away and the tank drops down on the trans, you get a nice little battery from the aluminum facing material on the tank insulation. Then you get this…

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Take a photo and frame that. Two side-by-side would be worthy of the fireplace mantel in my house! Pretty...

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


RonC
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I put a wax mixture on my trans. It was a heavy paste but melted into all the small cracks and around everything. I plan to do some fluid film on everything when I get to the point of dropping everything and dealing with rust.

I also looked into heat coatings and I talked to a few people about it. I didn't do any, I'd rather spend the money on something with tangible results such as a circulating pump. This discussion goes back a ways on several threads! I haven't seen hot outside air temperatures yet, but what I have seen so far with long distance driving (10 hours nearly straight at highway speeds and over mountains), I've only seen 140*F on my trans temperature. I am not planning on getting a cooler for my trans just yet, just the Weddle gear oil pump and an O-Berg trans filter.

Jeff too bad about the oiling plates. I wonder if it's due to just being a rebuilt? My trans had zero paint marks on it due to being new. I don't actually know if it came with the plates but I think it did since it came with a 5cyl bell housing and 5.34? R&P (both of which AA kept since I didn't need them).
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Jeff's Old Volks Home
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I make a concoction of toilet bowl seal rings and non aerosol fluid film for sealing areas I never intend to visit again, like above fuel tanks, top of syncro transmissions inside seam repairs. It's brush able, barely. I also spray about 200l of Fluid Film per year undercoating my customers rigs. Anyone who's seen my Syncro Doka can attest that it works well killing the dreaded tin worm. I've driven year round for more than 15 salty winters, I did paint it a few years ago, but it's still a great old truck. I've been putting it to bed every winter since 2008. The relationship is 21 years old this year.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

Jeff too bad about the oiling plates. I wonder if it's due to just being a rebuilt? My trans had zero paint marks on it due to being new.


Pretty surprising what I found in factory NEW Syncro transaxles build in Sept '86 .. Upgraded 3rd/4th hubs, all aluminum housings, latest version intermediate housing to accept splash plate .. yet no splash plates installed.

I don't know about the factory rebuilds, but the factory new transaxles have paint on all bolts etc .. and watch out .. they're full of oil !
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The van that received the reman will be torn down this summer so I didn't sweat it, BUT within weeks of driving in shite conditions and even with all of the beet juice NY puts down with the salt, the cases shown some evidence that a corrosive is present.

I am a tester and do not recommend anyone else installs one without at a minimum waxing it.

Derek and I have posted the higher temp Wurth wax for engines, trans and diffs in other threads...Subaru Infestation for one.

Love the toilet bowl ring and FF mixture Exclamation

There are different grades and thicknesses available of FF, but they come in non aerosol form only.
Check with a FF dealer if interested.
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Syncro Jael
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I should be installing my AA transaxle this week. I paid the extra for the aluminum gear housing and case.

From my motorcycle days I remember that they painted many of the engines black to help dissipate the heat. I also have read that was done on many of the older VW parts. Fact? It's been said that black is actually the best color for dissipating heat from the engine or transmission. This statement is true, here's why:

The reason black paint dissipates heat more than any other color is that black is the most capably dissipative color for infra-red (heat) wavelengths. As we all know, black is very absorbent when energy rays (visible AND invisible) such as sunlight hit it. It is also able to cast off the most heat energy, all of its radiation being in the infra-red part of the energy wavelength spectrum. Single colors tend to focus their ability to both absorb AND dissipate in the wavelength of their color, and far less in the infra-red compared to black. One last thing about black: It absorbs energy better than it dissipates it, which is likely why the effect of black dissipating heat is less known. Also, since it absorbs far better than it dissipates (as do all colors), it has a net gain, for example when your black car sits in the sun, until an equilibrium is reached depending on the heated body's ability to be cooled (like with a fender or hood, by the surrounding air). The ambient temperature of the air around the black fender keeps it from heating beyond a certain range. I hope this helps explain the "I don't know why" of black paint being a better cooler for engines. The effect won't be much, and might not even be noticeable unless closely monitored, but it is a fact.

Black radiates heat in the infra-red spectrum better than other colors, which tend to "specialize" by radiating less efficiently in the infra-red and more in just their color portion of the spectrum.

Speakers analogy: With regard to black being able to radiate heat well, heat is like a bass note, black is a woofer, and other colors are "mere" tweeters.

Physics theory (corrected): Heat (electromagnetic energy) radiation
rate, per unit of surface area, is proportional to the fourth power of
the surface temperature. Heat radiation rate, per unit of surface
area, is directly proportional to the ?emissivity? characteristic of
the surface. Emissivity = 1.0 (approx.) for a dull black surface;
emissivity = 0.3 (approx.) for a smooth, shiny copper surface.

Hence the rate at which heat is radiated from an engine block with a
dull black surface might be roughly estimated as 3x the rate at which
heat is radiated from an engine block with a shiny metal surface.

This is why I painted my skid plate "flat" black rough bed liner paint to absorb the engine and transmission heat, transfer it into the plate, and let the additional surface area in contact with the air movement under the vehicle dissipate it better. Why rough black surface? More radiant surface area. This is just my theory of how to help keep my tranny alive a little longer Rolling Eyes I am not positive it helps, but for a little prep time and paint it might be worth it. Pray

By the way, the tranny that is being removed has been painted black by someone and I was planning to paint this one black also. I was hoping someone had a good idea to keep the engine heat from transferring to the transaxle. Any ideas?
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Last edited by Syncro Jael on Sun Feb 09, 2014 3:00 pm; edited 4 times in total
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