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Paulbeard
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Joined: July 10, 2015
Posts: 2604
Location: Seattle
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 Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 6:30 pm Post subject: Re: What TIRES fit? The ultimate tire thread! |
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Reading through all this and looking at my rig, I discovered I already have Hankook RA08s at all four corners. I guess they're OK, I have no complaints.
I don't find the 195s readily: it's 205 / 75 R14 now. But the load rating is now 106 or 2094 Lbs Per Tire. What issues does 205 vs 195 create? Anything worth being concerned about?
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Currently -> Frida: 87 Tizian Red (mostly) Vanagon GL Westfalia w/ 2.0L ABA conversion
Formerly -> Steward of a 73 Super Beetle (Beater) and 67 Beetle 1300 (Little Max) both names by POs
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llilibel03
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Joined: February 03, 2008
Posts: 767
Location: Redondo Beach California
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 1:12 pm Post subject: Re: What TIRES fit? The ultimate tire thread! |
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| What is the biggest tire size you can fit on a 85 Westy without resortng to lift springs |
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rblake3
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Joined: May 10, 2007
Posts: 154
Location: Whidbey Island, WA
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bobbyblack 
Samba Member
Joined: May 21, 2015
Posts: 4351
Location: United States, Iowa
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| Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 8:27 am Post subject: Re: What TIRES fit? The ultimate tire thread! |
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| llilibel03 wrote: |
| What is the biggest tire size you can fit on a 85 Westy without resortng to lift springs |
KamZ did a true marathon writeup of this information in the first post of this thread. Look at the part down a ways into the first post, this is what you are asking for, but not ALL you need to know. Read the WHOLE thing, and try to understand it. That usually means 'read it at least twice' (I'm on my 4th full read through, and I still am finding out stuff I didn't pick up the other times) [Oh, and make sure you know what to do about the spare]
Tire size change tolerances:
(courtesy of Jon_slider)
0-5% > stock, factory engine (90hp or less)
5-10% > Good: Subaru 2.2 (137hp); Better: Subaru 2.5 (160hp)
10-15% > Subaru SVX (220hp); VW 1.8T (180hp chipped to 200hp)
0-5% > stock springs okay
9% and above > lift springs required
15% > shaving of trailing arm lip required
_________________
'87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch |
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vwwestyman
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Joined: April 24, 2004
Posts: 5688
Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 5:17 am Post subject: Re: What TIRES fit? The ultimate tire thread! |
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I hope you all don't mind me posting this question here, but thought I might get some good responses since you guys share factory tire sizes with us Bay folks.
Question for those of you running the 27x8.5x14 General Grabber AT2s.
I've currently got 17 in New Beetle rims on my '78 Bus with Fuzion 225/55/17 tires on it.
I like the looks of this combo just fine. However, they seem to have a large contact patch which would be great except for they have significantly increased the steering effort. This is in comparison to stock tires on my '73 Bus. By comparison, the '73 is light and nimble while the '78 feels like it lumbers around.
I also kinda dig the off-road look of the AT2s vs the Fuzions which have pretty smooth-looking tread. I do like to take it on old dirt roads at times, and once got pretty nervous on a rain-slicked mud road.
So the question is, how do the Grabbers drive with a Bus? Did you think that they caused a significant increase in turning effort? (Or, put another way, would switching to the Grabbers decrease MY turning effort)
I have Grabbers on my Thing and while I didn't drive it before putting those on (bought it non-running on bad tires), it is pretty easy to steer. (Though it does have a whole lot less weight on those same tires, so not quite apples to oranges.)
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Dave Cook
President, Wild Westerner Club
1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing |
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levi
Samba Member
Joined: February 11, 2005
Posts: 5522
Location: Las Vegas
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| Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:20 am Post subject: Re: What TIRES fit? The ultimate tire thread! |
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I don't think anyone minds you posting your question here, and I don't want to punch you in the face.
It's the width of the tire that makes it more difficult to turn, not the tread, and the slower you're moving the more pronounced the effect.
8.5 is about 215 mm, so you would be effectively moving down one size in width from 225 to 215.
It would be very slightly noticeable, but not close to the nimbleness of a 185.
Skinny tires are nice to have when you don't have power steering.
_________________
One of these days I'm gonna settle down,
but till I do I won't be hangin round.
Going down that long lonesome highway,
gonna see life my way
https://youtu.be/cSrL0BXsO40 |
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vwwestyman
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Joined: April 24, 2004
Posts: 5688
Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:11 am Post subject: Re: What TIRES fit? The ultimate tire thread! |
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| levi wrote: |
I don't think anyone minds you posting your question here, and I don't want to punch you in the face.
It's the width of the tire that makes it more difficult to turn, not the tread, and the slower you're moving the more pronounced the effect.
8.5 is about 215 mm, so you would be effectively moving down one size in width from 225 to 215.
It would be very slightly noticeable, but not close to the nimbleness of a 185.
Skinny tires are nice to have when you don't have power steering. |
I appreciate that!
Good thought on the width, that makes sense.
The reason I was thinking the tread might make some difference on driveability is that, by my eye, there is less rubber actually touching the road for a given "contact patch." Assume the "contact patch" is the width of the tire (so, about 8.5 inches) by the amount front to back (I dunno, 3-4 inches?) of tire that contacts the pavement at any given moment.
So with the larger/wider grooves and such, it seems like the overall amount of rubber for even a similar amount of square inches touching the road may be less with the Grabbers than many standard tires.
Hopefully I'm typing out my thoughts in a way that makes sense!
_________________
Dave Cook
President, Wild Westerner Club
1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing |
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levi
Samba Member
Joined: February 11, 2005
Posts: 5522
Location: Las Vegas
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| Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:02 pm Post subject: Re: What TIRES fit? The ultimate tire thread! |
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That's true, how much of a difference that makes in feel you'll have to find out.
Another thing to mull over;
As your tread gets wider, it's not the tread in the middle that matters, but the tread on the outside edge.
The tread on the outside is what's giving extra resistance, because it has to travel farther for a given degree of steering wheel movement.
Imagine if the tire was 3 feet wide.
Each 1 degree of steering wheel input would require the outside edge to move much farther.
You can also decrease the resistance by increasing the pressure, but then you are making big changes in the understeer/oversteer balance characteristics of your bus.
You'll want to make sure you understand how that changes the handling of your bus if you do that.
_________________
One of these days I'm gonna settle down,
but till I do I won't be hangin round.
Going down that long lonesome highway,
gonna see life my way
https://youtu.be/cSrL0BXsO40 |
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vwwestyman
Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2004
Posts: 5688
Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:20 pm Post subject: Re: What TIRES fit? The ultimate tire thread! |
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Ah,yes, that makes sense too. Sort of like how the outside of a record must spin faster than the inside while it's turning. (I'm just barely old enough to understand that! ha ha)
I guess what I'd love to hear is from someone who switched from stock tires to the Grabbers so they could say, "It still turns easily" or "I notice a little more effort but not much" or "Its like driving a car that should have power steering, but the power steering is broken!"
That is how I describe driving the Bus with the wide tires. Not a problem at speed at all, but at low speeds it is very similar to a car with broken power steering and enough of a difference to be annoying/unpleasant to drive.
_________________
Dave Cook
President, Wild Westerner Club
1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing |
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llilibel03
Samba Member
Joined: February 03, 2008
Posts: 767
Location: Redondo Beach California
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| Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:55 pm Post subject: Re: What TIRES fit? The ultimate tire thread! |
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| bobbyblack wrote: |
| llilibel03 wrote: |
| What is the biggest tire size you can fit on a 85 Westy without resortng to lift springs |
KamZ did a true marathon writeup of this information in the first post of this thread. Look at the part down a ways into the first post, this is what you are asking for, but not ALL you need to know. Read the WHOLE thing, and try to understand it. That usually means 'read it at least twice' (I'm on my 4th full read through, and I still am finding out stuff I didn't pick up the other times) [Oh, and make sure you know what to do about the spare]
Tire size change tolerances:
(courtesy of Jon_slider)
0-5% > stock, factory engine (90hp or less)
5-10% > Good: Subaru 2.2 (137hp); Better: Subaru 2.5 (160hp)
10-15% > Subaru SVX (220hp); VW 1.8T (180hp chipped to 200hp)
0-5% > stock springs okay
9% and above > lift springs required
15% > shaving of trailing arm lip required |
Thanks. That's the info I needed. I will stay close 5%. Looks like I'll do 205/75r15 or 215/65r16 |
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llilibel03
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Joined: February 03, 2008
Posts: 767
Location: Redondo Beach California
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bobbyblack
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Joined: May 21, 2015
Posts: 4351
Location: United States, Iowa
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| Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:04 pm Post subject: Re: What TIRES fit? The ultimate tire thread! |
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Hope you can take this info to heart: 27" diameter won't fit in spare clamshell. Look at all your angles before you do this. Most Merc rims will require alternate fastening hardware, so, either you get a 5th rim to match, or somehow produce the old lugs, etc when you go flat. Read more. Stay closer to 25.5"
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'87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch |
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llilibel03
Samba Member
Joined: February 03, 2008
Posts: 767
Location: Redondo Beach California
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| Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:32 pm Post subject: Re: What TIRES fit? The ultimate tire thread! |
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| bobbyblack wrote: |
| Hope you can take this info to heart: 27" diameter won't fit in spare clamshell. Look at all your angles before you do this. Most Merc rims will require alternate fastening hardware, so, either you get a 5th rim to match, or somehow produce the old lugs, etc when you go flat. Read more. Stay closer to 25.5" |
Who knew healthcare....I mean buying tires could be so complicated!
So the General Grabber AT2 215/65 r16 are on Kamz's list, it is within his 27" clearance with no mods, it is within the 5% change in revolutions per mile he recommends for stock powered 2wd....and because I can get a discount I'm probably going to pull the trigger, unless someone can convince me otherwise..and then I'll just pull my hair out.... |
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soissisc
Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2007
Posts: 636
Location: Western Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:15 pm Post subject: Re: What TIRES fit? The ultimate tire thread! |
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| Quote: |
| it is within the 5% change in revolutions per mile he recommends |
It is "She", I believe, from my rabbit convertible days...
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Mark
68 Westy
92 Jetta (oh it is retired)
99 Eurovan
05 NBC
06 Audi A3
72 Westy (I am going to fix it up) |
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campism
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Joined: September 07, 2007
Posts: 4492
Location: Richmond VA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:15 pm Post subject: Re: What TIRES fit? The ultimate tire thread! |
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Look at it this way; you become the de facto General Grabber AT2 215/65 R16 resident expert and can field all future questions on that tire.
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'87 Westy in Wolfram Grey Metallic |
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Wellington
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Joined: September 21, 2004
Posts: 1890
Location: Montreal
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vwwestyman
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Joined: April 24, 2004
Posts: 5688
Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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bobbyblack
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Joined: May 21, 2015
Posts: 4351
Location: United States, Iowa
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| Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 6:58 am Post subject: Re: What TIRES fit? The ultimate tire thread! |
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| llilibel03 wrote: |
So the General Grabber AT2 215/65 r16 are on Kamz's list, it is within his 27" clearance with no mods, it is within the 5% change in revolutions per mile he recommends for stock powered 2wd....and because I can get a discount I'm probably going to pull the trigger, unless someone can convince me otherwise..and then I'll just pull my hair out.... |
Maybe I need to go back to school... I swear that the stock 25.5" (some actually say 25.3") is not 27" when grown by 5%. My math skills may be low, but 25.5 * 1.05 = 26.775. So, unless you want to challenge my basic understanding of math, 27" tires are not within 5%. AND, if the stock size really is 25.3", then you are really going to get some fuzzy math skills to improve my comprehension.
Also, I don't really care if you go with 27" at all, I have looked at all sizes, and considered 27" to be "close enough" too. But by the math, it is definitely NOT within 5% (OK, I will just state my math skills ARE good enough to make that statement!)
Also, the first post in this thread, by kamzcab86, yes a she, is really well done. It will get you all the info you have been asking. She has taken many previous posts from threads, combined it into a very well done piece. If you really want to understand the answers, go through that first post, like 4 times, and even do some math along with the information.
You can also go to tiresize.com and look at the size calculator to get a good understanding of what the sizes translate to. Be skeptical of any tires that are not C rated. They are difficult to find, and fairly spendy, but that is what the Vanagon is supposed to use.
At the end of all that tho, its up to you to decide. Its not unheard of to use XL tires, but make sure you understand why to reduce the stated load limits by 9%. You do realize that the Vanagon is the equivalent of a 3/4 ton truck, right? Even on my '67 Westy, the tire shops I took it to refused to mount any tires less than C. It was in fact, illegal for them to do so. Check out how much the Type 2 has grown since the Splitty times..
Good skill beats good luck hands down.
_________________
'87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch |
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levi
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Joined: February 11, 2005
Posts: 5522
Location: Las Vegas
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| Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:39 pm Post subject: Re: What TIRES fit? The ultimate tire thread! |
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Vw delivered full campers with 97 load, so 99 with an XL is definitely ok.
_________________
One of these days I'm gonna settle down,
but till I do I won't be hangin round.
Going down that long lonesome highway,
gonna see life my way
https://youtu.be/cSrL0BXsO40 |
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chumford
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Joined: March 14, 2013
Posts: 7
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:54 pm Post subject: Re: What TIRES fit? The ultimate tire thread! |
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new kicks
Nokion eNTYRE 2
225/55/r17
'91 GL with original carat springs and bilstiens
Audi s4 wheels with 15mm spacers
Picked up today at Point S Affordabe on 15th Ave W near Ballard Bridge in Seattle. $129 ea, mount balance four wheel alignment, hope to keep 'em off the curbs.
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Current vehicles:
1991 Vanagon GL - tornado red, 134k and counting
1991 Multivan - orly blue 204k and counting |
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