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Paulbeard
Samba Member
Joined: July 10, 2015
Posts: 2604
Location: Seattle
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 Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 7:00 pm Post subject: Re: What TIRES fit? The ultimate tire thread! |
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| kamzcab86 wrote: |
Most importantly, the first post has finally been updated. Even more importantly, you'll see that the first post is no longer as lengthy as it was. All of the detailed information and some additional info, has been moved into a PDF, which allows for better organization, easier to read, and simpler to update.  |
I have been wanting something like this as I realized I needed new rubber…excellent idea and execution.
_________________
Currently -> Frida: 87 Tizian Red (mostly) Vanagon GL Westfalia w/ 2.0L ABA conversion
Formerly -> Steward of a 73 Super Beetle (Beater) and 67 Beetle 1300 (Little Max) both names by POs
— dhaavers |
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bobbyblack 
Samba Member
Joined: May 21, 2015
Posts: 4349
Location: United States, Iowa
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| Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 7:23 pm Post subject: Re: What TIRES fit? The ultimate tire thread! |
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Dear KamZ,
I am so very grateful to your dedication and work on the new PDF, and in general, your enthusiasm to and for this Forum. You deserve a sticky "Thank You" from all of us.
Kind regards,
-bobby
_________________
'87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch |
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dhaavers
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 7756
Location: NE MN (tinyurl.com/dhaaverslocation)
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 4:25 am Post subject: Re: What TIRES fit? The ultimate tire thread! |
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Tried the link... "Connection refused"...??? 
- Dave
---------
EDIT: Wait...tried again a few minutes later & got through...maybe it's on my end? <shrug>
_________________
86 White Wolfsburg Westy Weekender
"The WonderVan"
<EDITED TO PROTECT INNOCENT PIXELS> |
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dobryan
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 16503
Location: Brookeville, MD
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Westaru
Samba Member
Joined: October 10, 2016
Posts: 189
Location: Utah
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| Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 11:20 am Post subject: Re: What TIRES fit? The ultimate tire thread! |
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I have an '84 Westy with GW 1.5" lift springs and 215/75/15" BFG's on it and have found them to take away far too much power for my altitude. I've sold the tires and going back to a stock OD 15" tire (less than 5% larger than stock). I spend a fair amount of time on road, as well as on dirt/gravel roads. Crosswinds/sway is a consideration (heavier sidewalls is better). This is a 2wd so not much heavy 4wd/rock crawling time.
Hoping for some advice on a few of these selections:
-Michelin Defender LTX M/S in 205/65/15 are designated as XL in the specs - however, the PDF on the first page derates these by 9% since they are not explicitly designated as an LT/SUV tire. I've ran these on several of my Dodge Cummins trucks and been very happy with them. Is it just this size that has different specs than the larger OD tires? 50psi max inflation. I'm struggling to figure out why these are derated.
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=...;tab=Sizes
- YOKOHAMA: GEOLANDAR A/T-S in 205/70R15 seem like a good choice, but are rated as a 96S with an 'SL' rating. Do these need to be derated at 9%? Yokohama lists them as a truck/SUV tire, but this size does not have an 'LT' prefix. 51psi max inflation.
https://www.yokohamatire.com/tires/geolandar-a-t-s
http://www.bigotires.com/Tire-Detail/YOKOHAMA/GEOLANDAR-A-T-S/36501
The also make the Geolandar AT G015 (PDF has it as '051', believe that is a typo) in the same size at a 96H. Yokohama lists them as a truck/SUV tire, but this size does not have an 'LT' prefix. BUT, it has a 51psi max inflation. Does this one need to be derated?
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=...;tab=Sizes
https://www.yokohamatire.com/tires/geolandar-a-t-g015
Lastly, is the omission of the Firestone Destination A/T just an oversight? It seems to have a higher load rating than the Yokohama.
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=...;tab=Sizes
I Really like the General Grabber AT2 and the Kumho Road Venture AT51, but both are only available in the larger 215 size. Even the BFG would be fine if I could find it in my size. Is anyone aware of any other more aggressive tires for some level of off roading that come in the smaller 205/60-65/15 sizing? The only options I can find are above.
Thanks for any advice you can give! |
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llilibel03
Samba Member
Joined: February 03, 2008
Posts: 767
Location: Redondo Beach California
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| Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 4:40 pm Post subject: Re: What TIRES fit? The ultimate tire thread! |
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Hey Utahn, I spent a couple weeks pulling my hair out over just your issue. I just ordered the Geolandar 205/70r15. I'll let you know. I decided to go with them because they were on "The List" and they seem a good compromise between road and light offroad...
I looked at the Firestones too but they had some pretty bad reviews whereas the Geolandars had mostly positive reviews...
I was hoping to take the Westy to Utah next week (spring break). We are going to Capitol Reef and there are a lot of dirt roads there. The van didn't pass smog so I'm not sure it will be ready in time... Camping with the Prius is just not the same....
Last edited by llilibel03 on Sun Apr 02, 2017 4:42 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Westaru
Samba Member
Joined: October 10, 2016
Posts: 189
Location: Utah
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| Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 4:41 pm Post subject: Re: What TIRES fit? The ultimate tire thread! |
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| llilibel03 wrote: |
Hey Utahn, I just ordered the Geolandar 205/70r15. I'll let you know. I decided to go with them because they were on "The List" and they seem a good compromise between road and light offroad...
I was hoping to take the Westy to Utah next week (spring break). We are going to Capitol Reef and there are a lot of dirt roads there. The van didn't pass smog so I'm not sure it will be ready in time... |
Feel free to send me a PM - I was partially raised in those parts (torrey) and know it fairly well!
About the Geolandar 205/70/r15... They are on the list - BUT, if I"m reading the PDF correctly they should be derated by 9% (SL rated tire), putting the weight rating at 1424# or below the needed minimum weight rating.
It's all pretty confusing honestly. In the attachment the Defender LTX is derated by 9% but the Geolandar isn't. But it seems the latter should be. Why are XL derated in the attachment but SL aren't?
OTOH, it could be that I"m just completely misunderstanding which tires need to be derated. |
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davevickery
Samba Member
Joined: July 16, 2005
Posts: 2887
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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| Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:17 am Post subject: Re: What TIRES fit? The ultimate tire thread! |
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| the Utahn wrote: |
[
About the Geolandar 205/70/r15... They are on the list - BUT, if I"m reading the PDF correctly they should be derated by 9% (SL rated tire), putting the weight rating at 1424# or below the needed minimum weight rating.
It's all pretty confusing honestly. In the attachment the Defender LTX is derated by 9% but the Geolandar isn't. But it seems the latter should be. Why are XL derated in the attachment but SL aren't?
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The derating was done to add an extra safety margin because people with light trucks and vans tend to overload them. They originally defined the regulation as passenger car tires, then revised their meaning so basically anything that isn't a Commercial C/D load or LT tire should be derated. So both SL and XL would be. But some tires are better than others and tires like the Geolander, Destination and Grabber are made for light trucks and SUV and are probably tougher than a car tire..
The last years of the vangons (2wd, camper and syncro) came with 97 rated XL tires. A 97 rating whether it is SL or XL still meets the maximum axle weights of a 2wd van but not a syncro once you derate it. A 96 load rating is only about 12 lbs per tire short of meeting the DOT requirement on a 2wd on the rear tires. (hint: load less stuff in back). The Geolander would be a good choice if you can't find a 97 or higher tire you like. C load is better for stability but you wind up having to compromise somewhere.
The Grabber, the Destination and the Geolander all come in a 205/75 with a SL rating of 97, which is 27". Only the Geolander comes in the smaller 205/70 with a 96 rating. I don't know of any other All Terrain 15" tires that small with a higher load rating.
The Michelin tire is a good option if you don't need an aggressive tread. The Nokian Entyre comes in the same size 205/65 and is cheaper. There is probably a C load Nokian WR something All Weather tire in smaller sizes too, but they are twice the price and look more like a snow tire but do have stiff sidewalls.
I have had both the Destinations and the Geolanders on a van and thought they were about equal all around. I prefer the look of the Destinations. |
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llilibel03
Samba Member
Joined: February 03, 2008
Posts: 767
Location: Redondo Beach California
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| Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:37 am Post subject: Re: What TIRES fit? The ultimate tire thread! |
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| davevickery wrote: |
| the Utahn wrote: |
[
About the Geolandar 205/70/r15... They are on the list - BUT, if I"m reading the PDF correctly they should be derated by 9% (SL rated tire), putting the weight rating at 1424# or below the needed minimum weight rating.
It's all pretty confusing honestly. In the attachment the Defender LTX is derated by 9% but the Geolandar isn't. But it seems the latter should be. Why are XL derated in the attachment but SL aren't?
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The derating was done to add an extra safety margin because people with light trucks and vans tend to overload them. They originally defined the regulation as passenger car tires, then revised their meaning so basically anything that isn't a Commercial C/D load or LT tire should be derated. So both SL and XL would be. But some tires are better than others and tires like the Geolander, Destination and Grabber are made for light trucks and SUV and are probably tougher than a car tire..
The last years of the vangons (2wd, camper and syncro) came with 97 rated XL tires. A 97 rating whether it is SL or XL still meets the maximum axle weights of a 2wd van but not a syncro once you derate it. A 96 load rating is only about 12 lbs per tire short of meeting the DOT requirement on a 2wd on the rear tires. (hint: load less stuff in back). The Geolander would be a good choice if you can't find a 97 or higher tire you like. C load is better for stability but you wind up having to compromise somewhere.
The Grabber, the Destination and the Geolander all come in a 205/75 with a SL rating of 97, which is 27". Only the Geolander comes in the smaller 205/70 with a 96 rating. I don't know of any other All Terrain 15" tires that small with a higher load rating.
The Michelin tire is a good option if you don't need an aggressive tread. The Nokian Entyre comes in the same size 205/65 and is cheaper. There is probably a C load Nokian WR something All Weather tire in smaller sizes too, but they are twice the price and look more like a snow tire but do have stiff sidewalls.
I have had both the Destinations and the Geolanders on a van and thought they were about equal all around. I prefer the look of the Destinations. |
In the same size 205/70r15 are the Pirelli Scorpion AT. Same rating as Geolandars (96). I went with the Geolandars because of the reviews I read.
In end I said "F..k it. The previous owner with a family of four camped all over the Western states with 90 rated tires. I'm probably good with 96 rated tires with my skinny family of three." |
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Westaru
Samba Member
Joined: October 10, 2016
Posts: 189
Location: Utah
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| Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 8:17 am Post subject: Re: What TIRES fit? The ultimate tire thread! |
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| davevickery wrote: |
| the Utahn wrote: |
[
About the Geolandar 205/70/r15... They are on the list - BUT, if I"m reading the PDF correctly they should be derated by 9% (SL rated tire), putting the weight rating at 1424# or below the needed minimum weight rating.
It's all pretty confusing honestly. In the attachment the Defender LTX is derated by 9% but the Geolandar isn't. But it seems the latter should be. Why are XL derated in the attachment but SL aren't?
|
The derating was done to add an extra safety margin because people with light trucks and vans tend to overload them. They originally defined the regulation as passenger car tires, then revised their meaning so basically anything that isn't a Commercial C/D load or LT tire should be derated. So both SL and XL would be. But some tires are better than others and tires like the Geolander, Destination and Grabber are made for light trucks and SUV and are probably tougher than a car tire..
The last years of the vangons (2wd, camper and syncro) came with 97 rated XL tires. A 97 rating whether it is SL or XL still meets the maximum axle weights of a 2wd van but not a syncro once you derate it. A 96 load rating is only about 12 lbs per tire short of meeting the DOT requirement on a 2wd on the rear tires. (hint: load less stuff in back). The Geolander would be a good choice if you can't find a 97 or higher tire you like. C load is better for stability but you wind up having to compromise somewhere.
The Grabber, the Destination and the Geolander all come in a 205/75 with a SL rating of 97, which is 27". Only the Geolander comes in the smaller 205/70 with a 96 rating. I don't know of any other All Terrain 15" tires that small with a higher load rating.
The Michelin tire is a good option if you don't need an aggressive tread. The Nokian Entyre comes in the same size 205/65 and is cheaper. There is probably a C load Nokian WR something All Weather tire in smaller sizes too, but they are twice the price and look more like a snow tire but do have stiff sidewalls.
I have had both the Destinations and the Geolanders on a van and thought they were about equal all around. I prefer the look of the Destinations. |
Thank you for the clarification on the derating, makes a lot of sense.
Ideally I'd be looking for a 26.3" tire that was off road suitable and C rated or 99+ rated. If wishes were fishes...
My '84 has heavy rocky mountain westy bumpers front and rear, plus the rear tire carrier and rear cargo carrier. Between this and coolers, it seems prudent in my case to stay with a 97+ rated tire. The most aggressive tire that seems to fit these criteria is the Defender LTX MS in a 205/65. I'm going to make some calls today on the Nokan Entire and WRG3, but in looking online they both seem to be less suitable for off road (although they are a perfect height for my use). |
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davevickery
Samba Member
Joined: July 16, 2005
Posts: 2887
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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Westaru
Samba Member
Joined: October 10, 2016
Posts: 189
Location: Utah
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| Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 5:54 pm Post subject: Re: What TIRES fit? The ultimate tire thread! |
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timely post - Idahodoug told me today about the Vredestein Comtrac 205/70/15 All seasons - honestly, these look perfect. Slightly larger than stock, high load range, snow rated, etc. I don't know anything about the brand but they do appear to be well known tire manufacturer in europe.
Has anyone ran these tires on the samba? |
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project68
Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2007
Posts: 43
Location: British Columbia, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:00 pm Post subject: Re: What TIRES fit? The ultimate tire thread! |
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So currently I have my winter tires on (Continental WinterContact Extreme) in a 215/60/16. I have 3/4" spacers front and rear with the steel Tiguan wheels and after reading over this entire thread, I believe I can fit a BFG KO2 in a 215/65/16 that has the 27" rolling diameter without any issue. BUT can I squeeze 215/70/16 that's 27.8" because it has the lighter load rating of a C to be a little softer ride than the D old rating of the 215/65/16. PFA!
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IdahoDoug
Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2010
Posts: 10248
Location: N. Idaho
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| Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 10:59 pm Post subject: Re: What TIRES fit? The ultimate tire thread! |
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Nice color on that girl of yours (!). So I will soon report on the Vredestein Comtrac All Season. They're 195R14 and rated a whopping 2000lbs with a modern silica rubber, nice slightly open tread, snow rating and heavy duty sidewalls for bashing curbs all day in their designed intent for commercial delivery vans in Europe. I hope to use those tough sidewalls to lower pressure and bash roots and rocks in some rough trail use.
They are mounted on freshly painted rims with new caps - taunting me daily to get the rest of the Van finished.
Doug
_________________
1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader |
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kamzcab86
Samba Moderator
Joined: July 26, 2008
Posts: 7917
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 11:43 pm Post subject: Re: What TIRES fit? The ultimate tire thread! |
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| the Utahn wrote: |
| The also make the Geolandar AT G015 (PDF has it as '051', believe that is a typo) in the same size at a 96H. |
No typo. There are two Geolandars, one is G015, one is G051. 
| the Utahn wrote: |
| Lastly, is the omission of the Firestone Destination A/T just an oversight? |
Added, along with a few others.
| the Utahn wrote: |
| In the attachment the Defender LTX is derated by 9% but the Geolandar isn't. But it seems the latter should be. |
I thought I had de-rated everything that wasn't an LT or C tire... obviously, I missed a few.  Now fixed so that it's a bit less confusing.
_________________
~Kamz 
1986 Cabriolet: www.Cabby-Info.com
 1990 Vanagon Westfalia: Old Blue's Blog
2016 Golf GTI S
"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance." - 孔子 |
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Westaru
Samba Member
Joined: October 10, 2016
Posts: 189
Location: Utah
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 7:37 am Post subject: Re: What TIRES fit? The ultimate tire thread! |
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| kamzcab86 wrote: |
| the Utahn wrote: |
| The also make the Geolandar AT G015 (PDF has it as '051', believe that is a typo) in the same size at a 96H. |
No typo. There are two Geolandars, one is G015, one is G051.
| the Utahn wrote: |
| Lastly, is the omission of the Firestone Destination A/T just an oversight? |
Added, along with a few others.
| the Utahn wrote: |
| In the attachment the Defender LTX is derated by 9% but the Geolandar isn't. But it seems the latter should be. |
I thought I had de-rated everything that wasn't an LT or C tire... obviously, I missed a few. Now fixed so that it's a bit less confusing. |
Thank you for the clarification, and this incredible resource!
I had hoped to try the Vredestein Comtrac All Season in a 205/70/15, but unfortunately they are only certified for a 6.5" max width rim, and I have 15x7 alloys. The 215's will work, but are back to being too tall (mid 27's depending on which spec you look at).
_________________
1984 'Westaru' Vanagon Westfalia EJ22
@UtahWestfalia on IG
Last edited by Westaru on Mon Apr 24, 2017 5:22 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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davevickery
Samba Member
Joined: July 16, 2005
Posts: 2887
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 3:26 pm Post subject: Re: What TIRES fit? The ultimate tire thread! |
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| the Utahn wrote: |
I had hoped to try the Vredestein Comtrac All Season in a 205/60/15, but unfortunately they are only certified for a 6.5" max width rim, and I have 15x7 alloys. The 215's will work, but are back to being too tall (mid 27's depending on which spec you look at). |
I think you were looking for the 205/70-15 which is perfect at 26" diameter and a 205 wide tire should be fine on a 7" rim. All the specs for that tire are fine for a Vanagon. |
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Westaru
Samba Member
Joined: October 10, 2016
Posts: 189
Location: Utah
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 3:32 pm Post subject: Re: What TIRES fit? The ultimate tire thread! |
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| davevickery wrote: |
| the Utahn wrote: |
I had hoped to try the Vredestein Comtrac All Season in a 205/60/15, but unfortunately they are only certified for a 6.5" max width rim, and I have 15x7 alloys. The 215's will work, but are back to being too tall (mid 27's depending on which spec you look at). |
I think you were looking for the 205/70-15 which is perfect at 26" diameter and a 205 wide tire should be fine on a 7" rim. All the specs for that tire are fine for a Vanagon. |
That's exactly what I had hoped - but Vredestein is adamant the 205/70/15 is not safe on a 7'" rim. 5.5, 6, and 6.5 yes - but not 7.
Here is their technical data:
http://publish.folders.eu/en/fixed/1027219?token=1650d0bb7161eb8691297e9b52abe7cb
Look at page 53 and 56.
I even spoke to the sales rep for North America, who reached out to the help desk at the 'home office', and they verified the 205/70/15 is not safe to run on a 7" rim. They would not specify why.
Perfect tire otherwise, did I not already have 15x7" rims I just had powdercoated. 
_________________
1984 'Westaru' Vanagon Westfalia EJ22
@UtahWestfalia on IG |
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davevickery
Samba Member
Joined: July 16, 2005
Posts: 2887
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 5:52 pm Post subject: Re: What TIRES fit? The ultimate tire thread! |
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| OK. The manufacturer gets to set it's own min/max, so they are just being more conservative than most other brands that allow up to a 7" rim. The hunt continues I guess. |
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Westaru
Samba Member
Joined: October 10, 2016
Posts: 189
Location: Utah
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 6:10 pm Post subject: Re: What TIRES fit? The ultimate tire thread! |
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| davevickery wrote: |
| OK. The manufacturer gets to set it's own min/max, so they are just being more conservative than most other brands that allow up to a 7" rim. The hunt continues I guess. |
It's the only tire of that size that I have found that will not spec a 7" rim - very strange. Half of me wants to just order and run it - I'm pretty sure I'll never have a problem. But I don't like cheaping out on tires, and I haul my family around in this...
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1984 'Westaru' Vanagon Westfalia EJ22
@UtahWestfalia on IG |
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/tiregallery/1912/1.jpg "Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen."){kind=logo}
