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E-Brake stuck on
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bluebus86
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 8:29 am    Post subject: E-Brake stuck on Reply with quote

I got a 66 Bug, all stock. the Emergency brake is sticking on at times. Usually after the car has sat with the E-Brake on for more than a few days. The handle releases fine, but one of the brakes does not release. I have to use the motor and clutch to pop the brake loose, then she works fine, I can set the E-brake, even firmly, and I get no sticking if the brake is on for only a short time. But if the brake is set for days, it sticks. Last time I really had to rev it up a bit to brake the brake free. It nearly stalled the motor.

The hydrolic brakes appear to function normally, this I just an E-brake issue, one wheel only.

What should I be looking for as a solution.

thanks
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you thought of exploring the rear brake system…ie..remove drums and check the condition of the brakes and clean/lubricate the moving parts.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Replace the spring kit & the brake cable
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

anthracitedub wrote:
Have you thought of exploring the rear brake system…ie..remove drums and check the condition of the brakes and clean/lubricate the moving parts.


Yes, but before I dig in, I'd like to know what others have found as the cause of this problem. I have had Bugs for 35 years, and never had this problem before. This is a new bug for me, and I would like to know if others have had this problem and what they found. this will help me decide when to pull the drum and what parts to have on hand. thus minimizing down time.

any thoughts on this?
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know much of Cali is experiencing a heat wave, but do you live in an area with a lot of moisture [like around the beach]? Metallic brake shoes can sometimes flash rust against the drums. It usually takes at least three or four days, it shouldn't be something you deal with overnight. I'm sure different shoes have different metallic content, so maybe someone else can chime in with better shoes. This may contribute to the issue you're experiencing.

-jeffrey
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bluebus86
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jhicken wrote:
I know much of Cali is experiencing a heat wave, but do you live in an area with a lot of moisture [like around the beach]? Metallic brake shoes can sometimes flash rust against the drums. It usually takes at least three or four days, it shouldn't be something you deal with overnight. I'm sure different shoes have different metallic content, so maybe someone else can chime in with better shoes. This may contribute to the issue you're experiencing.

-jeffrey


That's a good thought, Not real moist here however, near palo alto California, no ocean salt. Mid 50F-60F highs, mid 40F-50F lows. My other bugs never have had this issue, never had a stuck ebrake on any drum car up to now, but this is a new car to me, never had the drum off. The thing is that short times with brake on don't cause it to stick, only after some time does it stick. So rust could be an issue I guess. Never had my old shoes stick, but back in the day they where mainly asbestos, no metallic pads back then , who knows what is on this car. maybe the formulation of the pad has changed?

I know I here a lot disc brake pad materials, racing grade pads and such. does anyone have info on Bug show pad materials as too what is the best? I have in the past always bought what the local VW shop had, no choices, but now with VW shops few and far, and the internet to do mail order, who makes a performance pad shoe for the old bugs? what should I look for (or avoid) in shoes?
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 3:57 pm    Post subject: Re: E-Brake stuck on Reply with quote

The clutch cable snapped on my '65 beetle today which was replaced only a year ago. Sad I called my antique insurance and had the car towed to my house and the tow guy damaged the emergency brake. He denied it and said that it's a 60 year old car. (????) My sister said to him you broke it and you will be getting a bill. I emailed my insurance company which I have towing with and waiting to hear what they have to say. I am soooooo upset! I try so hard to take care of my "Lady".
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 9:00 pm    Post subject: Re: E-Brake stuck on Reply with quote

Read up in the "Idiot's Manual" by Jon Muir on how to drive your VW WITHOUT a working clutch pedal.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bluebus86 wrote:
anthracitedub wrote:
Have you thought of exploring the rear brake system…ie..remove drums and check the condition of the brakes and clean/lubricate the moving parts.


Yes, but before I dig in, I'd like to know what others have found as the cause of this problem. I have had Bugs for 35 years, and never had this problem before.


I'm in Arizona, and had this happen on my 1971 maybe a decade ago.

Update: I just checked my logbook.
In 2004 I replaced the rear brake hardware (comes as a kit); since I didn't write down that I removed the drum to replace the brake shows, must've been for the stuck brake issue. Fixed it.

In 2012, one of those brake springs broke, so had to replace that spring.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:39 am    Post subject: Re: E-Brake stuck on Reply with quote

Umm... The original post was from 5 years ago, the person that brought it back from the dead is somehow trying to pin a broken parking brake on a tow guy. Their broken clutch cable is another matter.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:13 am    Post subject: Re: E-Brake stuck on Reply with quote

vwgirl1961a wrote:
and the tow guy damaged the emergency brake. He denied it and said that it's a 60 year old car. (????)


Damaged? Can you be more specific? Does the brake handle pull up but just does not latch? Did the button pop-out and won't go back in? If so, it's not broken, the latch pawl has just flipped around. This is caused by the rear brakes not properly adjusted and the driver most likely pulled up on the brake handle like he should and it pulled up to high and the latch pawl flipped around.

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To fix this, first thing your need to do is adjust your rear brakes. Make sure they are in good order. Second, pull the rubber boot up and off the e-brake assembly. Then back off the lock nuts off both the Brake cables [3]. This will allow you to pull the Parking brake lever [1] high enough so you can flip the Pawl [8] around so it can engage the teeth of the Ratchet segment [5]. While you are doing this, you'll need to push the Pawl rod [2] back down [with the spring in place] so the end of the Pawl rod [2] will fit around the Pawl [8] [see arrow "B"]. Once the Pawl rod [2] and Pawl [8] are in the proper place, you’ll need to properly adjust the parking brake so this won't happen again [or at least until the cables stretch a bit more].

To adjust the parking brake you must have the rear end of the car suspended so you can rotate the wheels. Raise the Parking brake lever [1] up two or three clicks. You'll then need to tighten each cable till you cannot rotate the wheels by hand. Make sure the cables are groves down by the Cable guide tube [10]. Tighten them equally and check the wheels on both sides as you do this. Make sure the compensating lever [4] is horizontal when you are finished.

This should keep you going for a while. If you run out of cable to adjust before the wheels are tightened, you'll need new cables.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 10:47 am    Post subject: Re: E-Brake stuck on Reply with quote

jhicken wrote:

To fix this, first thing your need to do is adjust your rear brakes. .


Easier to flip the pawl first. Might need to loosen the parking brake cables a tad, but a lot less adjusting parking brake cable nuts than if one has first adjusted the brake shoes!

Personally like to adjust the parking brake handle for five clicks after adjusting the brake shoes. VW recommends four clicks, but we find that is so low it is too easy for the driver to not notice the parking brake is pulled up. Do keep away from eight clicks, because that is the point that parking brake can flip the pawl and stop working. Resulting in the parking brake not ratcheting up properly to lock the rear brakes.

Once the brake shoes are adjusted and the parking brake for how many clicks you do. When you notice the the parking brake later goes up another click, it is time to readjust ALL the brakes. What you are doing is using the parking brake as a kind of dipstick to tell you when the brake shoes need to be adjusted again.

Other than keeping the parking brake working, keeping the brake shoes properly adjusted has two other important results:

1. Brake shoes will wear more evenly over the entire length, instead of wearing too much at the wheel cylinder end only if not adjusted often enouigh. Do keep in mind that adjusting the shoes too often and the shoes will wear more at the adjusting star end!! So this is a kind of Goldilocks, not too much, not too little situation. With you keeping track with the parking brake getting the when to adjust is pretty easily.

2. With brake shoes adjusted just often enough you will have as near as 100% of each brake shoe in contact with each brake drum. Doing that will give you as close to 100% braking power as possible.

Do not be surprised if you have to adjust the brake shoes twice very soon in the weeks or months after doing the above and using the parking brake to keep track of when to adjust the brake shoes. The shoes will need to be worn into the shape of the drums, this is more so true when installing new brake shoes. After the shoes are worn in, the periods between adjustments will be much longer apart.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 11:10 am    Post subject: Re: E-Brake stuck on Reply with quote

Eric&Barb wrote:

Easier to flip the pawl first.


Wouldn't adjusting the brakes alter the position of the e-brake cable a little? I've always made sure the rear brakes were properly adjusted before adjusting the e-brake. That always worked for me.

-j.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 11:23 am    Post subject: Re: E-Brake stuck on Reply with quote

Flip the pawl first then adjust the rear brakes. Then you don't have to fiddle with the handle inards.
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maybe he just snapped cause his car sucked Wink
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 11:37 am    Post subject: Re: E-Brake stuck on Reply with quote

jhicken wrote:
Wouldn't adjusting the brakes alter the position of the e-brake cable a little?
-j.


Exactly, adjusting the brake shoes in the rear will tighten up the cables. So then one has to undo the adjusting nuts even more to get the pawl to clear the top of the ratchet segment to get the pawl flipped over, and pawl engaged with the pawl rod properly.

A few years ago did this for a fellow volks owner in the N. part of town. He contacted us and since we needed to get into town for some shopping we went over to his place. A nice mid 1970s Beetle with wood chocks behind the rear wheels to keep it from rolling out in the street. Lifted the handle and worked the rod, while flipping the pawl over into place with the other hand. Dropped the parking brake down, checked that it ratcheted. Then briefed the owner about adjusting ALL the brakes, etc...

jhicken wrote:
I've always made sure the rear brakes were properly adjusted before adjusting the e-brake. That always worked for me.


That works just fine with parking brake ratcheting properly, and that handle is all way down when adjusting the rear brake stars. Then adjust the parking brake if need be. Even good quality parking brake cables will stretch over time, but nowhere near as much as the shoes will wear down.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 11:52 am    Post subject: Re: E-Brake stuck on Reply with quote

vwgirl1961a wrote:
The clutch cable snapped on my '65 beetle today which was replaced only a year ago.

I already responded to PM from VWgirl1961a, and went through the list of what could be wrong here.


vwgirl1961a wrote:
I called my antique insurance and had the car towed to my house and the tow guy damaged the emergency brake. He denied it and said that it's a 60 year old car. (????)

I agree with the responses above about most likely being the rear brakes AND the brake cables being out of adjustment, and the tow guy pulled up too far on the E-brake handle.

Note that vwgirl1961a is not able to change her own clutch cable or adjust her own brakes, so she must rely on a shop to honestly assess what maintenance and repairs her 1965 sedan Lady needs.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 12:20 pm    Post subject: Re: E-Brake stuck on Reply with quote

If you pull it up all the way it can get stuck. Get it unstuck by going into the actual lever then adjust your brakes and see if that fixes it.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 1:06 pm    Post subject: Re: E-Brake stuck on Reply with quote

Cusser wrote:

Note that vwgirl1961a is not able to change her own clutch cable or adjust her own brakes, so she must rely on a shop to honestly assess what maintenance and repairs her 1965 sedan Lady needs.


Totally get that, no way Barb could (due to physical difficulties) keep up on a lot of the heavy lifting ACVW maintenance if I was not here! Still as an owner one needs to be cognizant of how and why the VW (or any vehicle) is working so as to have a chance go to the shop/garage BEFORE something fails utterly. Clutch cables often get a tad longer and while doing so, can let off a snap/sprong felt thru the pedal as strands of the cable fail, in turn the pedal will feel suddenly looser at the top when pressing down. Again pulling out the Idiots Manual she could have driven it home. There are plenty of places still that the cell phone will not work and the few times we have had to call for a tow it was several hours before that showed up. Same with the parking brake if it is going up too many clicks, if that was happening it was a big clue of what was to come. Not saying every future problem can be seen coming, but most of the time they can.

When driving over the mountains in N. Calif back several decades ago. Came across four guys stranded alongside the I-5 with their USA made car on the shoulder with feeble flicking emergency flashers. Weather was well below freezing, with road covered with ice and snow. Their car had died in the several miles of bumper to bumper 5-7 MPH stop and go traffic. That traffic (since they pushed the car off to the side of the road) had been driving right past them for about two hours. Popped the engine hood and low and behold the battery positive terminal looked like a large white mushroom of corrosion. I explained that was not good and they responded that the car had been to the shop/garage a few days before the trip, where the mechanic gave it a going over for their journey! Huh! Cleaned off the thickest corrosion of the positive cable clamp and tried to remove it from the battery post. Corroded so badly the battery clamp broke in two. Ended up having to stuff the end of the cable inside the remains of the battery clamp. Cleaned up the other battery clamp and they were able to get it started up. Told them to just use running lights in the stop and go traffic and get a new battery clamp ASAP.
Not saying the shop they went to was a bad one, everyone make mistakes, but if the owner of the car had some mechanical studying/practice, and at least looked under the hood....

Plus finding a mechanic that is well versed in ACVW maintenance is near impossible today for most areas. So it is even more important for the owner to be able to understand and diagnose. Otherwise it will be another of those long sagas of "that VW was so unreliable" that we have heard too many times from past owners.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 1:10 pm    Post subject: Re: E-Brake stuck on Reply with quote

vwgirl1961a wrote:
The clutch cable snapped on my '65 beetle today which was replaced only a year ago. Sad I called my antique insurance and had the car towed to my house and the tow guy damaged the emergency brake. He denied it and said that it's a 60 year old car. (????) My sister said to him you broke it and you will be getting a bill. I emailed my insurance company which I have towing with and waiting to hear what they have to say. I am soooooo upset! I try so hard to take care of my "Lady".


That's rough. Make sure you find out where it broke. Also, if you wouldn't mind posting what brand. How easy was it to press the clutch? It shouldn't take much.

The tow guy is somewhat right. He should have asked you if there is anything special. When I take my cars to have tires on them I drive it into the bay for them. A long time ago I let them try to drive it and they couldn't find reverse. You have to assume folks don't know anything about your car and watch over them like a hawk.
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