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1973 VW Thing build in Canada
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VWest77
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PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2014 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

citroen wrote:
pistons do not look that bad I have used worse check the rings for wear hone the cylinders and check for wear the push rods will work like that they are pretty thick. I would like to see where the damage was coming from I hope they are not from the rings also I would check the weight of the pistons and rods since you don't if all the pistons and rods came from that engine. Keep up the great job.


Thanks for the reply. It really is great to have people of your experience/expertise contributing on this forum. I really appreciate your input and encouragement!

Took the clutch and pressure plate off today and cleaned up some things. Next on my list is to split the case and swap out those bearings you suggested. Never done it before, so I'll start with a lot of reading and research!
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1973 Thing 1600 T181
1963 Double Cab
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citroen
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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

if you get in trouble there is always great people on this site to help you
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Bashr52
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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HMM dished pistons and a 211 case number indicated to me that was a bus part at one time. Swap in a set of flat 1600 pistons and get a little power back Wink
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VWest77
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Time for an update. I now have the carpet torn out of all the door pockets and off the back seats. Hoping that the sandblasters will be able to deal with the glue residue/carpet webbing.

I'm just waiting for the painter/auto body tech for the go ahead to take the body, doors and other panels to the sandblaster. I'm taking it to the same guy that powdercoated the engine tin. He said he could sandblast the whole car for around $500.

I also have the engine on a stand now, and am just waiting on a tool to remove the oil pump so I can split the case and replace the bearings. And then start putting everything back together.

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1973 Thing 1600 T181
1963 Double Cab
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citroen
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

good price on the sandblast if he can get all the undercoating off from the body. You don't need a puller for the pump they don't work that great anyway just remove all the bolts pry the case a little pull out the pump and split the case.
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VWest77
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ended up getting the tool. Maybe it wasn't necessary, but it did work, and was only $5.

Case is now split... Time to start measuring. Going to have to start reading... Haven't done any work on a crankcase before.

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VWest77
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I might need a little direction. I have a digital calliper... just need to know what to do.

I've got "How To Keep Your Volkswagen Alive"... which more or less says take it to a machinist to deal with the crankshaft.

I've got a Bentley, which seems to assume I know how to do everything already. I'm having trouble following it.

Basically, I want to know how to measure and check the condition of the case, crankshaft, cam, and rods.

I've been searching the forums, if you have any leads let me know.

Thanks in advance.
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citroen
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

take the crank to a machine shop and let them check the size . the same with the case that way they can tell you what size the crank and the case are so you can get the right size bearings. pop out the center bearing if you can run your fingernail across the case and feel a ridge you will need to have the case line bored.
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VWest77
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

citroen wrote:
take the crank to a machine shop and let them check the size . the same with the case that way they can tell you what size the crank and the case are so you can get the right size bearings. pop out the center bearing if you can run your fingernail across the case and feel a ridge you will need to have the case line bored.


1. Ok. I went and talked to the only Machinist in town. He said he could take a look. One thing he said was, "the cleaner the parts, the cheaper the cost will be". So I'd like to do my best to clean everything well.

Tomorrow I'd like to bathe the case halves, crank, and cam. I've seen someone use purple "super clean" on the Samba. I went to look at that stuff today and it said "limit use on aluminum".

What do you guys use?

2. I dismantled the crank (I didn't remove the distributor gear, I'll let the machinist do that), and removed all the bearings. After removing the centre bearing I didn't feel a "ridge", so that's a good sign!

What checklist should I give to the machinist at this time? (Keep in mind he is not an Air-cooled VW guy necessarily... so if theres anything specific I should communicate to him, please let me know.)

- Measure crank journals.
- Check case wear.
- ? anything else ? Should I get him to machine the mating surfaces?

3. Lastly, should I replace the cam? rods? Or anything else for that matter? I'm looking to build a relatively stock, reliable engine on a budget...

Thanks for your input.
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1973 Thing 1600 T181
1963 Double Cab


Last edited by VWest77 on Wed Jun 18, 2014 9:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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citroen
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ask your shop if he has a hot tank for aluminum that's how I clean my cases it sounds like you can use standard bearings you can use the old cam and lifters but new ones would be a lot better ask your machinist.
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VWest77
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alright! So I cleaned up my case halves. Bathed them in a detergent (spray 9) and warm water. Then took them to a car wash, and blasted them. And then used compressed air to blow out all of the passages...etc.


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Back from the engine builder, he told me the rod + main bearings inside diameter are undersized 020 (.50mm), and the main bearing outside diameter is 020 (.50mm) oversized.

So the crank was ground .50mm, and the case was line bored .50mm.

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He said the crank was in great shape, no wear at all.

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I'm thinking the cam is probably fine...

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So I got a little ahead of myself and mixed up the lifters... not sure if they are usable and I'll just place them randomly... or if I should get new lifters.


Going to order bearings/other internal engine pieces tomorrow.
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citroen
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

make sure that he measures the thrust with a 20 bore the thrust comes in standard or 40 I have mixed up lifters before without any problems. From the pictures the cam and lifters look ok
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VWest77
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

citroen wrote:
make sure that he measures the thrust with a 20 bore the thrust comes in standard or 40 I have mixed up lifters before without any problems. From the pictures the cam and lifters look ok


Thanks! The machinist didn't measure the thrust... so I used my calliper and it measured close to 22mm, which would be standard.

Now that I'm back to buying parts, I was wondering should I re-use the connecting rods? And is it fine to replace the two worn pushrods and re-use the rest?
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citroen
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes on the push rods also since this engine has been rebuild before make sure you have the rods checked for balance it may not have the rods that came with the engine from the factory. It will make a really nice engine if they are in balance if not a very rough engine. I have seen rods that were way out of balance. if you don't know the weight you could put the heavy ones on one side and light ones on the other side . I make sure all my rods are the same weight.
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VWest77
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alright!

So I got my bearings, and then took the crankshaft to the machinist to remove the distributor drive gear.

the gears seem to have some scoring... The machinist seemed to think it was ok though.

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So now that I'm ready to start building... I'm wondering if I can re-use these connecting rod nuts? I've heard mixed answers on the forums.

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Here's the inside of one of the connecting rods.

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Thanks!
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Towel Rail
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks good so far. Got this book?

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http://vwparts.aircooled.net/How-to-Rebuild-Your-V...ngines.htm

I would undo some of the "upgrades" your engine got on its way to you -- pick up a rebuilt stock distributor from the Classifieds, get a proper oil-bath air cleaner, install an entrance fitting where the metal fuel line passes through the engine firewall tin, and for Pete's sake, don't put a fuel filter between the pump and carb. One engine fire is enough (too many) for that car. Wink
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1974 Thing -- under the knife
1967 Beetle -- spring/summer/fall driver
1996 Subaru OBW (EJ22, 5-speed, AWD) -- winter car, 3-seasons "don't feel like biking today" car

049 > 070 > 053 > 009
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citroen
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

its ok to reuse the rod nuts they are better than the junk that is out today. You will need to replace the oil pump nuts because they have seals on them. The gears look ok. You can see some of the engines we build from the Domeck Brothers also a lot of the things we restore on our website Kubel Treffen 181 .com check us out thanks dennis
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ElectricianMD
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am just getting started on mine (T181) as well. Its always great to see someone do it with you. Its been 15 years since in built a 1600, but that was on a 17 yr old budget, so cheap and cut too many corners.

The 211 on your engine case is standard for a Thing, I'm fairly certain my engine number is correct, and the case number starts with 211 as well. I don't have the heads off yet, but soon, so I don't know if I have dished pistons.
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VWest77
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Time for an update:

I have ordered new Pistons, cylinders, connecting rods, and exhaust system. I don't really want to put the engine together until the body catches up a bit... But I am accumulating the parts so I am ready. I also bought Tom Wilson's book. Great resource!

I also went to the sandblasters to have a door "tested" to make sure they could get the glue residue off.

Turns out its going to work just fine. I plan to have the car sandblasted end of October, early November. Then time for body work and pan/steering/suspension!

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VWest77
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was looking at steering wheel options today. I couldn't find a definitive answer, so I thought I would ask around...

Would this steering wheel fit the Thing? With the diameter of the wheel/dimensions will I run into any issues?

http://www.cip1.ca/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=C13%2D79%2D4021%2DKIT

Thanks
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