| Would You Let Your New Driver Daughter Drive a Bug (with some upgrades) |
| Yes |
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32% |
[ 36 ] |
| No |
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67% |
[ 76 ] |
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| Total Votes : 112 |
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| Author |
Message |
vamram 
Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2012
Posts: 7300
Location: NOVA
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 Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 11:37 am Post subject: |
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[quote="beartoothweb"]How about some reasonably cool small safer car recommendations?
She's paying for her own car (we match 1:1), so we're hoping for $4000-5000.
Hyundai Elantra 2003 and later. Super reliable, air bags, much safer for a teen driver "learning by feel."
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VOLKSWAGNUT
Fastest VW Belt Changer
Joined: October 14, 2007
Posts: 11055
Location: Flippin' a Belt........ .... Off-n-On ... NC USA
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| Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 11:39 am Post subject: |
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Why does this sound so familiar...
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=367338
_________________
aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
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itskyle
Samba Member
Joined: October 04, 2013
Posts: 634
Location: Plainfield, IN
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| Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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Indeed, too bad it wasn't originally one as a poll.
I know, I know I said in my previous post that that was it on this subject, but I kind of lied. We were cruising around in herbie ontuesday and my wife saw a smart car. She said that even though that car is newer than herbie, she'd rather take her chances in herbie vs. that thing in a wreck any day of the week.
(Hey, drivers in Indiana are bad, but to that bad  )
Still, I know I would feel safer driving herbie than one of those smart cars.
The other point to make of this is subaru's new tv commercial. "they lived."
Heck, based on personal experience, way better to say that you walked away from it afterwords than just living through it.
_________________
--
69 or 72 Autostick Bug current
66 Bug (We both miss it)
74 SuperBeetle Auto Stick (I miss that car)
73 SquareBack, Straight Stick (Wife misses this one.) |
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lawn ninja
Samba Member
Joined: January 02, 2006
Posts: 1009
Location: Round Rock, TX
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| Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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My kid rolls around in a impact resistant life size hamster ball filled with airbags in case of collision.
Seriously though... I'm all about risk taking, I quit a cushy job and signed up as an infantryman in the army, just so I could go to war, because I had to experience it for myself. I told my wife to calm down because she was insisting that our son wear a helmet to ride his little tiny bike. I want my son to experience life and have a good time doing it, but I also want him to be able to experience life and have a good time doing it, if you catch my drift. He is way into cars and if he wants to have an aircooled car I will be thrilled about it, if he wants a hot rod I will be thrilled about it. He will drive neither of those cars daily. But my son is exactly and I mean exactly like me. I'm alive because I have been lucky to this point. I have been in so many situations that should of killed me and that was before I joined the army.
I am willing to let him take risks and enjoy his life without too many ropes restrictions and ropes tying him down. I know that if I hold on too tight hew will rebel even more than if I just let him go at it a little bit. I watched them peel and scrape a buddy of mine out of his bug when we were about 17. Someone ran a red light, caught him in the drivers door and that was it for him. No senior prom, no getting laid in a bed with a girl he loves so much it hurts, no children of his own to worry about, nothing. His life ended that night, not because he was driving like an asshole, but because someone else was. The only other death I've seen that was that violent was during war.
You want to call me a sissy that is afraid of his own shadow because I want to give me son every chance at living that I can, than so be it. These cars folded up like tin cans 20+ years ago and now that they are even more rusted out and shoddy they probably won't fair even remotely as well. People also didn't have all the distractions 20 years ago they do today. Facebooking and texting in a car watching tv whatever... People were far more attentive to what they were doing.I figure it is my job to mitigate as much as I can without stepping in the way too much, that is my job as a parent. If you are comfortable with letting your kids drive them, more power to you. I would like a newer car for him and we can build and enjoy the VW together.
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My 64 1500 S Notchback project here
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allsidius
Samba Member
Joined: February 02, 2010
Posts: 1475
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 1:38 am Post subject: |
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If you check out the youtube chrash tests of beetles, you will see they were not as bad as people think. Those tubes over the roof add a lot of rigidity. I bought a Golf mk 2 brand new in 1986. At the time it was considered a safe car. There is a video of a beetle vs. a Golf 2 and the Golf folds like a tin can. The beetle fares better than the Golf!
That said, I once promised my best friend's daughter that she could have my beetle when she got a licence. When the day came, I could not sleep thinking of her on the freeway in a beetle, and ended up chipping in for a Golf instead. She never forgave me and traded it for a beetle instead.
Speaking of helmet for kids riding bikes, in Scandinavia there are more casualties from kids strangulated by bike helmets when they climb trees without taking it off, than there are kids hurt by not wearing a helmet when riding a bike. When you are riding with your head 2 feet off the ground at a speed of 4 mph, there are limits to how much injury you can get. This whole helmet craze is way out of proportion.
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VOLKSWAGNUT
Fastest VW Belt Changer
Joined: October 14, 2007
Posts: 11055
Location: Flippin' a Belt........ .... Off-n-On ... NC USA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 5:18 am Post subject: |
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A Smart car is way safer than an old Beetle...... for that matter... just about any modern car is safer than any old VW...
_________________
aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
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PFN
Samba Member
Joined: September 26, 2013
Posts: 159
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:42 am Post subject: |
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There's been many great posts made here both for and against. I'd say let a new driver have a Beetle IF it's in their blood, and it's what THEY want.
When I was 15 I wanted a Beetle, nothing else would do. The oldest one I could get. A 1956, as it turned out. My Mother's family accepted this as normal being the family of a former VW dealer. My Father, former parts manager for that same dealership told me of the many woes which buying the '56 would bring me. I'd die in it, be left by the side of the road when it breaks down, be unable to get parts... He walked off waving his hands in the air. Hrumph.... Some faith in the product from someone who still works as a parts manager...
At that age I was aware of the difference in safety between an old car and a new one. Duh! I drove it carefully. Got called a pussy by my friends. (Except that one in the '56 Morris Minor, he understood!) I did what my grandfather taught me, the same thing that he taught his daughter learning on her 1968 model. "Don't just drive for yourself, drive for the person in front of you. And the person in front of them!"
I drove that '56 daily for 10 years. I had two accidents. The first was a dented left fender on the third day, pulling out of a parking space. The second was three years later, low speed at an intersection, my fault, totally smashed the right fender resulting in a concussion. Now that says a lot as to what happens when you DO have an accident! Taught me to be even more careful. Never had another accident in a VW since.
When I get a VW the first thing I do is remove the seatbelts and radial tyres if they've been installed. Never had anything post 1962 so in my state there is no requirement for belts. I've always wanted my driving experience to be period, without compromise.
You know how those people who die skydiving always have a relative say "They died doing something they loved"? ie. Hurtling to the ground screaming at terminal velocity? I want my Volkswagen family to say the same thing about me if it happens. Only I'll die screaming as a steering column hurtles towards my face. But at least I'll have died doing something that I loved!
_________________
1962 1/2 Australian Made Beetle
1961 factory RHD Karmann Ghia
(gone now)
1964 RHD Conversion Karmann Ghia
1956 RHD Beetle
1972 Kombi |
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Helfen
Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2009
Posts: 3450
Location: Vulcania
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| Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:21 am Post subject: |
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| lawn ninja wrote: |
My kid rolls around in a impact resistant life size hamster ball filled with airbags in case of collision.
Seriously though... I'm all about risk taking, I quit a cushy job and signed up as an infantryman in the army, just so I could go to war, because I had to experience it for myself. I told my wife to calm down because she was insisting that our son wear a helmet to ride his little tiny bike. I want my son to experience life and have a good time doing it, but I also want him to be able to experience life and have a good time doing it, if you catch my drift. He is way into cars and if he wants to have an aircooled car I will be thrilled about it, if he wants a hot rod I will be thrilled about it. He will drive neither of those cars daily. But my son is exactly and I mean exactly like me. I'm alive because I have been lucky to this point. I have been in so many situations that should of killed me and that was before I joined the army.
I am willing to let him take risks and enjoy his life without too many ropes restrictions and ropes tying him down. I know that if I hold on too tight hew will rebel even more than if I just let him go at it a little bit. I watched them peel and scrape a buddy of mine out of his bug when we were about 17. Someone ran a red light, caught him in the drivers door and that was it for him. No senior prom, no getting laid in a bed with a girl he loves so much it hurts, no children of his own to worry about, nothing. His life ended that night, not because he was driving like an asshole, but because someone else was. The only other death I've seen that was that violent was during war.
You want to call me a sissy that is afraid of his own shadow because I want to give me son every chance at living that I can, than so be it. These cars folded up like tin cans 20+ years ago and now that they are even more rusted out and shoddy they probably won't fair even remotely as well. People also didn't have all the distractions 20 years ago they do today. Facebooking and texting in a car watching tv whatever... People were far more attentive to what they were doing.I figure it is my job to mitigate as much as I can without stepping in the way too much, that is my job as a parent. If you are comfortable with letting your kids drive them, more power to you. I would like a newer car for him and we can build and enjoy the VW together. |
First, thank you for you service to our country. There are a couple of things I would add. People today drive cars differently than they did in the time I bought my 65 beetle forty six years ago. People drive cars according to the cars ability to stop and accelerate. Cars not only accelerate beter than the average car of the sixties, but they stop much better and people today drive their cars according to this. I once had to help a friend move his 37 Ford woody from storage to his new garage. That woody had mechanical brakes and at 35mph you needed to think about the stop sign ahead of you about a city block before. I had about thirty five miles of this type of driving to get to his place. I did drive the car within it's capabilities, however people who constantly had to squeeze into my safe braking ability was constant along the trip. If they had caused a situation I would have been pulling splinters out of my arse. Problem is those people didn't have a clue this old Ford need a city block to stop safely, unlike the people of 1937 who were driving the same types of cars. While a beetle of the mid sixties stops pretty good it does not stop like a new car nor does it have the protection, and people driving around you are driving thinking you have the same equipment. When you consider for example a new Nissan Versa that not only can stop, accelerate faster than the average sixties car and get up to 40mpg and has air bags and side curtains and cost less than fourteen grand...much less...With A/C! and all the stereo stuff. I would put my kid in that or some other new car for daily driving. |
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drscope
Samba Member
Joined: February 19, 2007
Posts: 15273
Location: Baltimore, Maryland USA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:40 am Post subject: |
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| PFN wrote: |
I'd say let a new driver have a Beetle IF it's in their blood, and it's what THEY want.
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But do you want their blood in the beetle? Thats the real issue here.
It makes no difference what their skill level is or how smart they are. It ALL comes down to the skill level and smarts of the other people on the road. And I can tell you there is a BIG lack of skill and smarts out there.
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Helfen
Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2009
Posts: 3450
Location: Vulcania
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| Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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| drscope wrote: |
| PFN wrote: |
I'd say let a new driver have a Beetle IF it's in their blood, and it's what THEY want.
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But do you want their blood in the beetle? Thats the real issue here.
It makes no difference what their skill level is or how smart they are. It ALL comes down to the skill level and smarts of the other people on the road. And I can tell you there is a BIG lack of skill and smarts out there. |
The "THEY WANT" doesn't mean anything in my book. The author of this thread has a kid of fourteen, and from 0 until they are of legal age kids need the guidance of the parents. After that you hope they will use good judgment, before that it's your judgment and your responsibility. |
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wcfvw69
Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 13389
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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Lets get some perspective here. Some parents let kids have motorcycles or mopeds as their first means of transportation.
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79SuperVert
Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2002
Posts: 9758
Location: Elizabeth, NJ & La Isla Del Encanto
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| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 6:30 am Post subject: |
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| PFN wrote: |
| I'd say let a new driver have a Beetle IF it's in their blood, and it's what THEY want. |
If I had followed the "what THEY want" rule raising my kids, by now they would have been illiterate, broke and addicted, if not dead.
I know that sounds terrible, like if I have no faith in my kids' judgment, but the fact is that when you're young you don't have all the relevant information at your disposal to make intelligent decisions and so that's what adults are for, who you hope are a little more competent than a 16 year old.
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Wanted: Art Collins VW (Savannah, Georgia) items - license plate surrounds and other items. Also ivory "AM", "FM" and "SW" buttons for a US Blaupunkt Frankfurt. |
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drscope
Samba Member
Joined: February 19, 2007
Posts: 15273
Location: Baltimore, Maryland USA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 8:37 am Post subject: |
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| 79SuperVert wrote: |
If I had followed the "what THEY want" rule raising my kids, by now they would have been illiterate, broke and addicted, if not dead.
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Yes but they sure would have been HAPPY kids as long as they lived with you!
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bugnut68
Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2003
Posts: 4180
Location: Eugene, OR
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| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 10:52 am Post subject: |
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| itskyle wrote: |
Indeed, too bad it wasn't originally one as a poll.
I know, I know I said in my previous post that that was it on this subject, but I kind of lied. We were cruising around in herbie ontuesday and my wife saw a smart car. She said that even though that car is newer than herbie, she'd rather take her chances in herbie vs. that thing in a wreck any day of the week.
(Hey, drivers in Indiana are bad, but to that bad )
Still, I know I would feel safer driving herbie than one of those smart cars.
The other point to make of this is subaru's new tv commercial. "they lived."
Heck, based on personal experience, way better to say that you walked away from it afterwords than just living through it. |
That Smart car has a hell of a lot more technology built it into it for safety's sake than your Beetle; despite all outward appearances. |
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bugnut68
Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2003
Posts: 4180
Location: Eugene, OR
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| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 10:55 am Post subject: |
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| lawn ninja wrote: |
My kid rolls around in a impact resistant life size hamster ball filled with airbags in case of collision.
Seriously though... I'm all about risk taking, I quit a cushy job and signed up as an infantryman in the army, just so I could go to war, because I had to experience it for myself. I told my wife to calm down because she was insisting that our son wear a helmet to ride his little tiny bike. I want my son to experience life and have a good time doing it, but I also want him to be able to experience life and have a good time doing it, if you catch my drift. He is way into cars and if he wants to have an aircooled car I will be thrilled about it, if he wants a hot rod I will be thrilled about it. He will drive neither of those cars daily. But my son is exactly and I mean exactly like me. I'm alive because I have been lucky to this point. I have been in so many situations that should of killed me and that was before I joined the army.
I am willing to let him take risks and enjoy his life without too many ropes restrictions and ropes tying him down. I know that if I hold on too tight hew will rebel even more than if I just let him go at it a little bit. I watched them peel and scrape a buddy of mine out of his bug when we were about 17. Someone ran a red light, caught him in the drivers door and that was it for him. No senior prom, no getting laid in a bed with a girl he loves so much it hurts, no children of his own to worry about, nothing. His life ended that night, not because he was driving like an asshole, but because someone else was. The only other death I've seen that was that violent was during war.
You want to call me a sissy that is afraid of his own shadow because I want to give me son every chance at living that I can, than so be it. These cars folded up like tin cans 20+ years ago and now that they are even more rusted out and shoddy they probably won't fair even remotely as well. People also didn't have all the distractions 20 years ago they do today. Facebooking and texting in a car watching tv whatever... People were far more attentive to what they were doing.I figure it is my job to mitigate as much as I can without stepping in the way too much, that is my job as a parent. If you are comfortable with letting your kids drive them, more power to you. I would like a newer car for him and we can build and enjoy the VW together. |
thank you for your service, and for this post. Excellent, excellent post. |
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bugnut68
Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2003
Posts: 4180
Location: Eugene, OR
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| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 10:58 am Post subject: |
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| PFN wrote: |
There's been many great posts made here both for and against. I'd say let a new driver have a Beetle IF it's in their blood, and it's what THEY want.
When I was 15 I wanted a Beetle, nothing else would do. The oldest one I could get. A 1956, as it turned out. My Mother's family accepted this as normal being the family of a former VW dealer. My Father, former parts manager for that same dealership told me of the many woes which buying the '56 would bring me. I'd die in it, be left by the side of the road when it breaks down, be unable to get parts... He walked off waving his hands in the air. Hrumph.... Some faith in the product from someone who still works as a parts manager...
At that age I was aware of the difference in safety between an old car and a new one. Duh! I drove it carefully. Got called a pussy by my friends. (Except that one in the '56 Morris Minor, he understood!) I did what my grandfather taught me, the same thing that he taught his daughter learning on her 1968 model. "Don't just drive for yourself, drive for the person in front of you. And the person in front of them!"
I drove that '56 daily for 10 years. I had two accidents. The first was a dented left fender on the third day, pulling out of a parking space. The second was three years later, low speed at an intersection, my fault, totally smashed the right fender resulting in a concussion. Now that says a lot as to what happens when you DO have an accident! Taught me to be even more careful. Never had another accident in a VW since.
When I get a VW the first thing I do is remove the seatbelts and radial tyres if they've been installed. Never had anything post 1962 so in my state there is no requirement for belts. I've always wanted my driving experience to be period, without compromise.
You know how those people who die skydiving always have a relative say "They died doing something they loved"? ie. Hurtling to the ground screaming at terminal velocity? I want my Volkswagen family to say the same thing about me if it happens. Only I'll die screaming as a steering column hurtles towards my face. But at least I'll have died doing something that I loved! |
Wow... this has to be some of the most ridiculous talk I've ever heard. Not a personal insult, but only an opinion. |
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bigdog1962
Samba Member
Joined: August 11, 2010
Posts: 1586
Location: Augusta, Georgia
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| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 11:24 am Post subject: |
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What about laws concerning motorcyclists not wearing helmets?
...wait....don't answer that!
Some of the decisions that people make think it only impacts them but it doesn't - unintended consequences.
In Georgia, we now have a law that when you first get your license, you cannot have another passenger in the car unless its an immediate family member for the first 6 months. Personally, I think its a good idea. Others though, may think that the government is intruding on their freedom.
Just another example of a law that went into effect because of unintended consequences. |
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PFN
Samba Member
Joined: September 26, 2013
Posts: 159
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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| bugnut68 wrote: |
| PFN wrote: |
There's been many great posts made here both for and against. I'd say let a new driver have a Beetle IF it's in their blood, and it's what THEY want.
When I was 15 I wanted a Beetle, nothing else would do. The oldest one I could get. A 1956, as it turned out. My Mother's family accepted this as normal being the family of a former VW dealer. My Father, former parts manager for that same dealership told me of the many woes which buying the '56 would bring me. I'd die in it, be left by the side of the road when it breaks down, be unable to get parts... He walked off waving his hands in the air. Hrumph.... Some faith in the product from someone who still works as a parts manager...
At that age I was aware of the difference in safety between an old car and a new one. Duh! I drove it carefully. Got called a pussy by my friends. (Except that one in the '56 Morris Minor, he understood!) I did what my grandfather taught me, the same thing that he taught his daughter learning on her 1968 model. "Don't just drive for yourself, drive for the person in front of you. And the person in front of them!"
I drove that '56 daily for 10 years. I had two accidents. The first was a dented left fender on the third day, pulling out of a parking space. The second was three years later, low speed at an intersection, my fault, totally smashed the right fender resulting in a concussion. Now that says a lot as to what happens when you DO have an accident! Taught me to be even more careful. Never had another accident in a VW since.
When I get a VW the first thing I do is remove the seatbelts and radial tyres if they've been installed. Never had anything post 1962 so in my state there is no requirement for belts. I've always wanted my driving experience to be period, without compromise.
You know how those people who die skydiving always have a relative say "They died doing something they loved"? ie. Hurtling to the ground screaming at terminal velocity? I want my Volkswagen family to say the same thing about me if it happens. Only I'll die screaming as a steering column hurtles towards my face. But at least I'll have died doing something that I loved! |
Wow... this has to be some of the most ridiculous talk I've ever heard. Not a personal insult, but only an opinion. |
There's definitely much to ridicule in my attitude, so no insult taken. It's just the odd way I "do" this whole VW thing. It's a result of my upbringing in it and I'm sure Freud would have a field day with me!
_________________
1962 1/2 Australian Made Beetle
1961 factory RHD Karmann Ghia
(gone now)
1964 RHD Conversion Karmann Ghia
1956 RHD Beetle
1972 Kombi |
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79SuperVert
Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2002
Posts: 9758
Location: Elizabeth, NJ & La Isla Del Encanto
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| Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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It would be just as "period" correct to install seat belts in a car that didn't have them because many people did just that when they bought their cars new.
_________________
Central Jersey VW Society
Wanted: Art Collins VW (Savannah, Georgia) items - license plate surrounds and other items. Also ivory "AM", "FM" and "SW" buttons for a US Blaupunkt Frankfurt. |
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dantrefethen
Samba Member
Joined: April 28, 2004
Posts: 729
Location: Boise Idaho
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| Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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My two cents about seat belts
I rolled my first Volkswagen off the freeway. It broke out all the windows.
The battery came loose and ended up in front of the passenger seat. Both
seats came off their rails. The only thing that kept me from being all over
the road were the seat belts. I was extremely lucky and came out of it
with only huge bruises on my sides from the seat belts.
I will never drive without seat belts.
Dan |
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