| Author |
Message |
Mr. Fickits
Samba Member
Joined: August 16, 2005
Posts: 94
Location: Reno,NV
|
 Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 2:19 pm Post subject: Gland Nut Threads Destroyed on Crank |
 |
|
While setting endplay I managed to do this.
Only took about 70 lbs of torque. Anyone successfully repair these threads? If so will you share? I have a new crank on order to get me by, but i'd like to fix this eventually. This is a 4340 74mm crank from a well-known/respected manufacturer. I'm hesitant to chase the threads with a tap because I don't trust that there is enough material to hold finish torque of the gland nut.
My understanding from welding on 4340 is that it needs to be pre-heated to ~500F, welded with 308 sst rod, then cooled over 24 hours. Not sure this good for the rest of the crank. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
esde
Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2007
Posts: 5960
Location: central rust belt
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 2:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Timesert, haha
Were you using some sort of torque multiplier? If not that is unexpected. Can you reach out to the manufacturer? Maybe DPR, or someone else with tons of experience welding cranks could fix it.. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
chrisflstf
Samba Member
Joined: February 10, 2004
Posts: 3435
Location: San Diego
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 2:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Whats the deal with slots in the dowel pins? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mr. Fickits
Samba Member
Joined: August 16, 2005
Posts: 94
Location: Reno,NV
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 2:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| No torque multiplier, just a 3/4 drive ratchet with very little force. I've talked with DPR and the manufacturer and determined the cost of crank vs. cost to fix it = not worth it so I've ordered another. DPR was very helpful on the phone. I prefer to use less expensive parts that have not been balanced and micropolished to make lampshades. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
miniman82
Samba Swamp Donkey
Joined: March 22, 2005
Posts: 9515
Location: Southern Maryland
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 4:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
HTF did you manage that with only 70 lbs of torque?
_________________
Build thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=212747
| Glenn wrote: |
| satterley_sr wrote: |
I just wanted to bitch but I'm getting no sympathy. |
Welcome to the Samba. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mr. Fickits
Samba Member
Joined: August 16, 2005
Posts: 94
Location: Reno,NV
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 4:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| HTF did you manage that with only 70 lbs of torque? |
Great question. I have been wondering the same thing. The one thing I did not check, that I will now, is the slop between the gland nut and the crank threads. Could be tips of the threads touching instead of entire thread.... All speculation at this point. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Glenn73
Samba Member
Joined: May 30, 2011
Posts: 1190
Location: West Jordan UT
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
VWporscheGT3
Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2006
Posts: 2076
Location: Gardnerville, NV
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| chrisflstf wrote: |
| Whats the deal with slots in the dowel pins? |
they act as teeth and bite into the hole they are in... if you try to get them out they are a mother flogger....
_________________
Schnell, SCHNELL!
I like being wrong, Because, it is another opportunity to learn. If you stop learning from your mistakes than what is the point?
If you have any questions about Forged ICON 4032 VW pistons just shoot me a line. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
getgeoff
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2008
Posts: 257
Location: Okanagan Center BC
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Only use a quality gland nut like the Scat chromoly. The cheap Chinese ones are longer. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
modok
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 26776
Location: Colorado Springs
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| slot in dowel allows the use of oil/locktite without hydrolock. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mark tucker
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009
Posts: 23937
Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 6:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Glenn73 wrote: |
I have done this too. What gland nut were you using?
I had a EMPI Chromoly gall up on me.
|
thaat had an impact on it.
always deburr,clean,reclean,check again.inside&outside threads.I dont use the nut to pull the flywheel from the start either.and when pulling it up when it's already ben put on as far as you can get it I use some mollygreezzee on the threadsI never tighten dry at all& deburr the nut flats so they do not eat into the washer&alter the torque.I do not use locktight. at 450+feetpounds/ass pounds whatever it dosent need it. are you sure that is a 4340??? might be a 4110 witch isant as hard as the 4340 and most are not nitrided to farther harden the serfaces. 4110 will scratch easely a 4340 will not.and thus the 4340 will last longer/wear less.especialy with not so clean oil. I also like the scat&cb gland nuts for my builds.Im not sure if Ive ever used anything else,mostly cb. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
modok
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 26776
Location: Colorado Springs
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 6:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
If that was welded, even by a skilled welder, the main would shrink and have to be ground undersize and dowel pins would we way out of alignment.
Good thing they are so cheap; just buy another. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Glenn73
Samba Member
Joined: May 30, 2011
Posts: 1190
Location: West Jordan UT
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dale M.
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20377
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 8:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Glenn73 wrote: |
Mark Tucker, It had an impact on it to remove it. It didn't budge.
I almost had to buy Justin at Blackline Racing a new Torque multiplier as we nearly broke it.
I only had maybe 80-90 ft lbs on it.
I learned the hard way that EMPI glandnuts are junk.
But I do agree with you that this is not something to overlook. |
Was that 80-90ft-lbs on the torque multiplier?....
Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mr. Fickits
Samba Member
Joined: August 16, 2005
Posts: 94
Location: Reno,NV
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 8:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
I have done this too. What gland nut were you using?
I had a EMPI Chromoly gall up on me. |
The gland nut is a Scat 4340 nut. The threads on the nut look just like the threads on the crank. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mr. Fickits
Samba Member
Joined: August 16, 2005
Posts: 94
Location: Reno,NV
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 8:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
If that was welded, even by a skilled welder, the main would shrink and have to be ground undersize and dowel pins would we way out of alignment.
Good thing they are so cheap; just buy another. |
That is the same conclusion I have come to. Painful lesson. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
seishuku
Samba Member
Joined: December 11, 2012
Posts: 112
Location: Beloit, WI
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 9:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
4340 galls hard against 4340, if the threads were on the tight side it WILL gall and it doesn't take much force.
I run into this a lot fitting pinion gears onto gear box shafts at work (industrial stuff, not small automotive type).
_________________
Matt W.
87 Nissan 200sx (sold) - Made too much power, now hopelessly broken. 
Daily: 2013 VW Jetta TDI Super Polluter |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Glenn73
Samba Member
Joined: May 30, 2011
Posts: 1190
Location: West Jordan UT
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
56vwoval
Samba Member
Joined: March 21, 2010
Posts: 186
Location: nowhere USA
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 6:27 am Post subject: gland nut |
|
|
Were these destroyed gland nuts lubed prior to installation?
_________________
Remember guys and girls, you can be right or you can be happy with your significant other! You decide which is right at that time! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
esde
Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2007
Posts: 5960
Location: central rust belt
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 7:26 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Was the gland nut new or used and had you verified that it threaded into the crank prior to torquing it? Do the threads on the gland nut and in the crank appear equally stripped? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
