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Honuak
Samba Member
Joined: April 21, 2009
Posts: 521
Location: AK
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 Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 11:26 pm Post subject: Output flange Bolts and removal - Syncro Transmission |
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Hello Sambaists and especially you Jedis...
In way over my head changing the fluid in the tranny. Driveshaft, guards and shift linkage are out. Started to take the output flange off chasing a small leak. All the bolts are off the output flange and now I realize two of the bolts are longer than the others and I don't know where they go in relation to each others.
And I don't know the best way to pull the output flange off. I need to turn the nut (huge, size?) while keeping the flange stationary. I don't have the special tool required according to the Bentlly @ 35.104 If I put it in gear will I damage things? DIY "special" tool?
SAMBA! |
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IdahoDoug
Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2010
Posts: 10251
Location: N. Idaho
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| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:08 am Post subject: |
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I don't remember needing any special tools for this. Do you have a pipe wrench or strap wrench? Just pad the flange against gouging. I think I used a cheater pipe for leverage.
_________________
1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader |
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gears
Samba Member
Joined: October 28, 2002
Posts: 4391
Location: Tamarack, Bend, Kailua
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| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 1:18 am Post subject: |
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The same way you would loosen the gland nut holding on the engine's flywheel .. a length of angle iron, with a hole drilled in it, and two 8mm nuts & bolts.
_________________
aka Pablo, Geary
9.36 @ 146 in '86 Hot & Sticky
'90 Syncro Westy SVX
'87 Syncro GL 2.5
https://guardtransaxle.com |
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SyncroGhia
Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2009
Posts: 2458
Location: Highnam, UK
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| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 2:01 am Post subject: Re: Output flange Bolts and removal - Syncro Transmission |
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| Honuak wrote: |
Hello Sambaists and especially you Jedis...
In way over my head changing the fluid in the tranny. Driveshaft, guards and shift linkage are out. Started to take the output flange off chasing a small leak. All the bolts are off the output flange and now I realize two of the bolts are longer than the others and I don't know where they go in relation to each others.
And I don't know the best way to pull the output flange off. I need to turn the nut (huge, size?) while keeping the flange stationary. I don't have the special tool required according to the Bentlly @ 35.104 If I put it in gear will I damage things? DIY "special" tool?
SAMBA! |
The flange isn't (or shouldn't) be held on with any bolts. It's original held on with a circlip underneath the rubber seal.
Here's the standard output flange with seal.
Here's the clip that holds it in. Behind that clip is a spring washer which must be fitted the correct way up so that it pushes against the clip otherwise you risk the flange coming off as you drive!
With the clip removed, you can lever against the heads of the cross-head screws to evenly pull the flange off and then pull the seal out ending up looking like this.
I will say, there is a thread into the output shaft from the diff and I know that in a 'to get this van outta the workshop' some garages have been known to stick a bolt in to hold the flange on.
If this has been done, you can't fit the seal pictured below and the gearbox will leak without it.
Do you have any photos of your current set up?
MG
_________________
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gears
Samba Member
Joined: October 28, 2002
Posts: 4391
Location: Tamarack, Bend, Kailua
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| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 7:41 am Post subject: |
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The OP's working on the pinion output flange of a Syncro transaxle.
_________________
aka Pablo, Geary
9.36 @ 146 in '86 Hot & Sticky
'90 Syncro Westy SVX
'87 Syncro GL 2.5
https://guardtransaxle.com |
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insyncro
Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15086
Location: New York
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| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 8:32 am Post subject: |
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| gears wrote: |
| The OP's working on the pinion output flange of a Syncro transaxle. |
The other output flange  |
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Honuak
Samba Member
Joined: April 21, 2009
Posts: 521
Location: AK
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| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:55 am Post subject: |
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My camera on the phone is broken. 
And I'm not so sure I want to get any deeper into the transmission. The leak is small, for now. A call to Smallcar (who put the decoupler in when the van was converted in 2004) informed me that the seal is likely a press-fit item. Now I wonder if I should just live with the leak and hope it doesn't get worse.
Or take the whole nose cone assembly off and take it to a trans shop to fix?
I'd like to fix it and not have to worry about it for another ten years or so.
Good news, when I drained the transmission there was only a small about of metal stuck to the drain plug magnet. If I take off the nose cone that will be a great time to inspect/clean the inside of the case.
Stay tuned...I'm in deep for me. |
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FrankenSubySyncro
Samba Member
Joined: May 03, 2007
Posts: 638
Location: Vancouver, WA.
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| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:06 pm Post subject: Re: Output flange Bolts and removal - Syncro Transmission |
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| Honuak wrote: |
Hello Sambaists and especially you Jedis...
In way over my head changing the fluid in the tranny. Driveshaft, guards and shift linkage are out. Started to take the output flange off chasing a small leak. All the bolts are off the output flange and now I realize two of the bolts are longer than the others and I don't know where they go in relation to each others.
And I don't know the best way to pull the output flange off. I need to turn the nut (huge, size?) while keeping the flange stationary. I don't have the special tool required according to the Bentlly @ 35.104 If I put it in gear will I damage things? DIY "special" tool?
SAMBA! |
For the two bolts you are talking about, one is longer than the other. Just hand thread them back in if one ddoesn't go in all the way switch them around.
For the flange you can make your own tool with a foot or two of flat metal or wood. Drill two holes that match the spacing of the holes in the flange and bolt it to the flange. This will hold the flange while you loosen the nut. I forget what size the nut is. Once the flange is off you can replace the seal behind it.
_________________
Syncronize it!
1987 Franken Syncro (converted 2WD auto)
2004 2.5 SOHC Subaru
F & R lockers, decoupler, SS, 6.17 R&P
Trans Cooler
EMPI race prepped 930 CVs and axles
Bilstein coilover front, rear ProComp MX-6066R shocks, 14" hypercoil springs
30x9.5 15" BFG Muds
Custom skid plates
Nose job (custom front bumper) http://www.flickr.com/photos/subyvanagon/sets/72157624970330925/ |
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snowsyncro
Samba Member
Joined: January 11, 2009
Posts: 1557
Location: East Preston, Nova Scotia, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Honuak wrote: |
Stay tuned...I'm in deep for me. |
Yeah I don't think so…
You can do this little thing.
RonC |
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SyncroGhia
Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2009
Posts: 2458
Location: Highnam, UK
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| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Honuak wrote: |
My camera on the phone is broken.
And I'm not so sure I want to get any deeper into the transmission. The leak is small, for now. A call to Smallcar (who put the decoupler in when the van was converted in 2004) informed me that the seal is likely a press-fit item. Now I wonder if I should just live with the leak and hope it doesn't get worse.
Or take the whole nose cone assembly off and take it to a trans shop to fix?
I'd like to fix it and not have to worry about it for another ten years or so.
Good news, when I drained the transmission there was only a small about of metal stuck to the drain plug magnet. If I take off the nose cone that will be a great time to inspect/clean the inside of the case.
Stay tuned...I'm in deep for me. |
Are you talking about the prop-shaft flange? Drive-shafts are from the gearbox and front diff out to the wheels. The German term for the prop-shaft is 'Kardanwelle' which translates to propeller shaft.
The prop-shaft flange is held on with one nut. You'll need a thin walled socket, a bar and 2 x bolts in the flange to loosen the nut and then a few cracks with a soft faced mallet and it'll come off.
The seal is pressed in behind it. Not hard to do but the seal is specific to our transmissions.
MG
_________________
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Honuak
Samba Member
Joined: April 21, 2009
Posts: 521
Location: AK
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| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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Definitely the prop shaft then. At the front end of the trans pointing to the front of the vehicle. I'll build the tool as suggested with wood first since I have it. I suppose I need to get the part off to inspect the seal to determine the correct part as there are several different decoupler out there and I'm not sure which one I have.
This pic shows the seal I suspect is going bad (gears just posted this to the gallery) but its hard to tell, perhaps the seal to the decoupler is the culprit...
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SyncroGhia
Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2009
Posts: 2458
Location: Highnam, UK
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| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Honuak wrote: |
Definitely the prop shaft then. At the front end of the trans pointing to the front of the vehicle. I'll build the tool as suggested with wood first since I have it. I suppose I need to get the part off to inspect the seal to determine the correct part as there are several different decoupler out there and I'm not sure which one I have.
This pic shows the seal I suspect is going bad (gears just posted this to the gallery) but its hard to tell, perhaps the seal to the decoupler is the culprit...
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Ah ok. That makes more sense.
Fitting a nosecone (decoupler etc) in situ makes it difficult to get a complete seal between it and the gearbox due to the amount of oil around.
This is the front diff but the flange is the same.
I've just penned in the lines to show where you'd brace up against to loosen or tighten up the nut.
For me, I'd use a pair of stock M8 bolts (not the ones that you've taken out as they're high tensile, fine thread bolts what you don't want to mess up) where the red lines are and then a pry bar against them while you loosen the nut with a bar.
It sounds easier than it is and in reality, I would probably get my air gun out to loosen the nut and only use the brace to tighten it back up with the torque wrench.
MG
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gears
Samba Member
Joined: October 28, 2002
Posts: 4391
Location: Tamarack, Bend, Kailua
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| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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I began a post with pics, Honuak, but got sidetracked with work.
The nut size is 24mm (15/16").
The new seal can be carefully tapped into place with a 1 15/16" socket or something similar with a diameter just under 2".
All decouplers use the same OE flange and seal.
_________________
aka Pablo, Geary
9.36 @ 146 in '86 Hot & Sticky
'90 Syncro Westy SVX
'87 Syncro GL 2.5
https://guardtransaxle.com |
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ragnarhairybreeks
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Joined: October 26, 2009
Posts: 1890
Location: Sidney B.C. Canada
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Honuak
Samba Member
Joined: April 21, 2009
Posts: 521
Location: AK
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| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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I sure hope the treads aren't reversed because I air hammered it for awhile and it didn't budge...
VANAGAIN has the output flange seal for the best deal I could find. Ordered it.
I will fab a better brace bar and try again tomorrow.
Having all y'all here is really helping me get thru.
SAMBA! |
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SyncroGhia
Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2009
Posts: 2458
Location: Highnam, UK
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| Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 1:11 am Post subject: |
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| Honuak wrote: |
I sure hope the treads aren't reversed because I air hammered it for awhile and it didn't budge...
VANAGAIN has the output flange seal for the best deal I could find. Ordered it.
I will fab a better brace bar and try again tomorrow.
Having all y'all here is really helping me get thru.
SAMBA! |
They have the normal direction of threads. They are tight though and if the flange can move around, it'll remove a lot of the impact from the nut gun.
Good luck 
MG
_________________
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Syncro Jael
Samba Member
Joined: December 19, 2013
Posts: 2204
Location: Utah
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| Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 7:20 am Post subject: |
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I made a little tool out of a piece of flat stock, measured the holes, drilled and bolted it on for removal-replacement of the nut. Flawless!
Kind of like this one only not as elaborate.
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1987 Syncro Westfalia Hightop - NAHT
Subaru EJ25 Forged Frankenmotor, Triple Knob.
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insyncro
Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15086
Location: New York
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| Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 9:10 am Post subject: |
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Very clever Goat  |
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Honuak
Samba Member
Joined: April 21, 2009
Posts: 521
Location: AK
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LeftCoastKiteboarding
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Joined: January 05, 2013
Posts: 123
Location: Left Coast
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| Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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| A lot of in's and out's and what-have-you's. Don't worry, a new seal will really tie the thing together. |
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