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69 electrical hacks by PO, need advice
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Yarkle Premium Member
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, it should have said switch, sorry bout that. I meant power to the wiper motor via the switch. when i get back to a computer, ill fix that.

I got your PM, and ill be the first to say im not a wiring expert, I just managed to piece the info together.

Busdaddy is way better at this stuff than me (cue to chime in busdaddy!) , but Id say if you arent getting brake lights and the blinkers are weird, this is what id check:

1. make sure your fuses are good- alot of times they arent getting the proper contacts
2. make sure your wiring connections and grounds are clean and tight..at the actual item (brakeslights, turn signals), the fusebox, and all the switches those are connected to.
3. you might have bad brake light switches, i know the non-german ones have been known to be squirrely
4. then go wire chasing, you could have a break somewheres
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1973 VW Bus [o____o] "the Thing" thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8272498#8272498 1.7 914? engine with weber progressive clone (soon to be 72 dual carb setup)
1969 VW Bus deluxe 221 -belongs to the boy
"Weld Busler" Bus rebuild thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=630499 1600SP


Last edited by Yarkle on Tue Jul 08, 2014 1:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
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busdaddy
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Start with the hazard switch, if it's coming apart or hooked up wrong the brake lights will never work.
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Yarkle Premium Member
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Coyote--See, I told you!

My bus fu is still in its early stages, Busdaddy is grandmaster.

Id have done all of the other stuff listed before switches first-- before i got to the hazard switch...which has both brake and turn stuff hooked into it.
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1973 VW Bus [o____o] "the Thing" thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8272498#8272498 1.7 914? engine with weber progressive clone (soon to be 72 dual carb setup)
1969 VW Bus deluxe 221 -belongs to the boy
"Weld Busler" Bus rebuild thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=630499 1600SP
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coyotewarrior
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 11:32 pm    Post subject: brake light wiring crazyness mid year 1969 model bus Reply with quote

Thanks for chiming in Busdaddy and for your reply Yarkie. Yeah I have a three connectors that still have nothing connected to them, so I'm gonna go hunt down some black wire with the correct gauge from Autozone and replace the missing sections.

Here is what I'm still missing.

Light switch - 57 which according to the 68-69 diagram goes to the defroster light indicator on the dash.

Wiper Switch - 30 which goes to #2 position on the fuse block (but this is only on the mid-year 69 model) this gives power to the wiper motor

Emergency Flasher switch - 54 this is totally confusing me. According to Yarkie the black and red wire from the break light switch goes to the #2 spot on the fuse block. So where does the 54 connect to? On the 70 model the black and red wire goes to the emergency flasher switch but on the 69 model it goes to the fuse block. Should I connect my 54 flasher switch to the fuse block or the brake light switch on the master cylinder? I will take a look tomorrow morning hopefully.
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coyotewarrior
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:08 am    Post subject: Emergency Flasher Switch Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Picture of my emergency flasher switch

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


This last one is really dirty, with dog hairs (PO) and grease. I cleaned it all up before putting it back on and you can read all the numbers now. I have a video of this that I can post on youtube and then copy over if anyone is interested.
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coyotewarrior
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:12 am    Post subject: Fuse Block 1969 westy Reply with quote

Here is my fuse block, what a mess by the PO
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


relay

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coyotewarrior
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:15 am    Post subject: relay 69 westy Reply with quote

here the terminals are 56, 56a, F, and S
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Last edited by coyotewarrior on Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:23 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:22 am    Post subject: relay 69 westy Reply with quote

In this picture you can see where there is a paper sticker that has pieces missing. I'm guessing the one that says 49 is missing the letter "a" and I think the other one on the left with two brown wires connected to it is "31" based on the wiring diagram for the 1970 model. I also want to say that the colors on the sticker near the terminals are supposed to match the color of the wires, but since this is a midyear 1969 model, I don't think mine match.
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Yarkle Premium Member
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 4:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didnt get that deep into mine yet, my PO had swapped most of the wires around in the fusebox, once i moved them to their proper places as my diagram shows, everything worked. on MY bus..other 69s could be a little bit different i guess.


look at this and see if it helps:

http://www.oldvolkshome.com/hazard_switch_ovh.pdf

scroll down a bit to type 2 late 68-69..

also, if you read the previous posts in this thread, I explain how i found that some wires change colors from the fuse box before they get to their destination via a connector, so yours could be different than mine.

On MY (sons) bus, there is a black and red wire going from fuse #1 to the brake switches. On yours, it MAY be the same, or maybe yours goes from term 54 to the switch..I imagine its possible they tinkered with that when they were changing the relays and # of switches
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1973 VW Bus [o____o] "the Thing" thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8272498#8272498 1.7 914? engine with weber progressive clone (soon to be 72 dual carb setup)
1969 VW Bus deluxe 221 -belongs to the boy
"Weld Busler" Bus rebuild thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=630499 1600SP


Last edited by Yarkle on Wed Jul 09, 2014 8:18 am; edited 1 time in total
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busdaddy
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 6:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clean up that switch so you can read the teeny tiny numbers beside each terminal and match the colors to the numbers on the diagram. Brake clean and a toothbrush work well for that.
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Tcash
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know if it has been mentioned. But put some small tie wraps around the emergency switch to hold it together.
Good Luck
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coyotewarrior
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 10:57 pm    Post subject: Still stuck on brake light wiring for midyear '69 Reply with quote

Still no luck. I racked my brain for at least a good hour trying to figure this mystery out. It seems the big question is where the hell does the connector 54 from the emergency flasher go? According to both diagrams it goes to the master cylinder brake "switches" but it doesn't allow for that, so this must be something that is not included in the Bentley manual since as Yarkie mentioned it was a mid year change. Does anyone own a shop manual for a midyear '69 I bet my answer is in that book...!

The only other thing I can think of is that I need a two prong connector like the one that Busdaddy shared so I can connect the black/red wire to number 1 on the fuse and piggy back a wire from 54 on it as well.

The closest I got is when I connected a wire directly from 54 to number two on the fuse block, the brake lights came on when I turn the key to the "on" position. So at least I know they work now.

btw, I did clean the emergency flasher switch. I will upload that video soon.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 12:12 am    Post subject: video of my emergency flasher switch Reply with quote

here is a video of my clean emergency flasher relay. stuck on where 54 goes to.

Link
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busdaddy
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 6:47 am    Post subject: Re: Still stuck on brake light wiring for midyear '69 Reply with quote

coyotewarrior wrote:
It seems the big question is where the hell does the connector 54 from the emergency flasher go? According to both diagrams it goes to the master cylinder brake "switches" but it doesn't allow for that,

How so? the black/red wire coming from the master cylinder connects to #54, the black wire in the same small harness connects to the fuse box so power can come from the fuse box and go to the master cylinder switches.
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Tcash
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

According to both diagrams it goes to the master cylinder brake "switches" but it doesn't allow for that,
Why "doesn't it allow for that"?


http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/wiring/baybus_70a.jpg

http://www.oldvolkshome.com/hazard_switch_ovh.pdf

http://www.oldvolkshome.com/hazard_switch_ovh.pdf
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Yarkle Premium Member
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm only home for a day this weekend before I have to go back out, but ill see if I can crawl under there on sunday and check.
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1973 VW Bus [o____o] "the Thing" thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8272498#8272498 1.7 914? engine with weber progressive clone (soon to be 72 dual carb setup)
1969 VW Bus deluxe 221 -belongs to the boy
"Weld Busler" Bus rebuild thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=630499 1600SP
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:39 am    Post subject: brake light wiring crazyness mid year 1969 model bus Reply with quote

okay so seems like the consensus on the black/red wire coming from the master cylinder goes to 54 on emergency flasher switch. and according to busdaddy the black wire coming from master cylinder goes to fuse block. I'm guessing to number one?

I will try that, if it doesn't work, the maybe it's the "switch" at the master cylinder that is bad?
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:53 am    Post subject: brake light wiring crazyness mid year 1969 model bus Reply with quote

Is there a way to test your brake lights with a test light from inside the car? I don't have a second person to tell me if my lights are working or not? I hooked up the wires as I mentioned in my previous post and put the test light to the black and red wire when I pushed the brake and nothing. Either the master cylinder switch is bad or I'm not putting my test light on the right wire.

Gonna go get some master cylinder switches later today. I thought I had replaced them when I put the new master cylinder about 8 years ago. Maybe not, can't remember that far back. is there a way to clean them out?
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busdaddy
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:02 am    Post subject: Re: brake light wiring crazyness mid year 1969 model bus Reply with quote

coyotewarrior wrote:
Is there a way to test your brake lights with a test light from inside the car? I don't have a second person to tell me if my lights are working or not? I hooked up the wires as I mentioned in my previous post and put the test light to the black and red wire when I pushed the brake and nothing. Either the master cylinder switch is bad or I'm not putting my test light on the right wire.

The black/red should light a test light when the key is on and the brakes are depressed (assuming the brakes are bled and functional).
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

K, the boy just went and looked and he says:

from the M/C: one is black, one is black and red..black and red goes directly to term 54.

Black hits a connector and then becomes black and red and goes to fuse 1

He then checked my VW notes on computer (i cant access from iphone) looking at my notes from peter good in england, he says:

Fuse 1 OUTPUT SIDE To Brake Sw Could be Black or Black Red

theres no Bentley diagram that covers mid year..thats why this is such a pita..

when i get back from my work trip, ill add notes to the sketch
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1973 VW Bus [o____o] "the Thing" thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8272498#8272498 1.7 914? engine with weber progressive clone (soon to be 72 dual carb setup)
1969 VW Bus deluxe 221 -belongs to the boy
"Weld Busler" Bus rebuild thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=630499 1600SP
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