Replacing second gear brake band cover - questions

table

My transmission exploded so I got a used one of unknown vintage. It seems to work fine but I took off the second gear brake band cover today because it has been leaking. Boy am I glad I did!

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Looks like a circlip blew up and was stuck in there.... I did not see a circlip in the exploded view of the AT I found on the internet. Is the circlip supposed to fit into the groove of the actuator pin? I would love to get the correct circlip if anyone has a part number... Anyone?

Second thing: The strainer had some chunks of something fibrous or plasticky - maybe drips of sealant that peeled off? Anything I should worry about?

Third thing: Looks like there's some galling (and rust!) on these two thingies on the side of the valve body. What are they? Should I clean them up? Will a thousand little pieces go "sproing!" if I take off the cover that holds these in to polish them a bit? (is it fairly easy/safe to do or should I just leave the valve body in one piece?)

Thanks all!

Terry Kay · Banned Joined: June 22, 2003 Posts: 13331

I believe there isn't any internal clip to retain the 2nd gear brake band shaft to the piston--just the outboard c-clip to hold the assembly into the trans.
The new piston assembly will come with the a shaft.
There sure isn't one listed in VW parts catalog anyway.

The material that was stuck in the filter looks like valve body gasket paper.
Maybe--perhaps.

Refreshing my mind by looking at the parts blow up--there is no clip at the piston to hold the 2nd gear band shaft--it's one piece.
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T.K.

table · Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:57 pm Post subject:

I was planning on replacing the seals and clip and sanding down the damaged surface....

AtlasShrugged · Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 5:55 am Post subject:

The "C" clip that broke on your automatic was an earlier style piston. VW had problems (they broke..just like yours) and redesigned the part with a large disc and center shaft riveted together. You want the heavy duty piston. Don't try and repair the old part.

I would not try and sand down the damaged piston bore...it is in bad shape. I would look for a later 3 speed 010 automatic...off any VW/Audi and get the piston and related parts. If your in a pull-a-part..look for an Audi 100/200/5000.

The rust stains on the valve body covers are unusual but no big deal..the car sat for a while with no ATF or more likely had a coolant/ATF mix from a bad ATF heat exchanger back in its history somewhere. Those things are covered in ATF. They shouldn't be stained..was the transmission shifting OK prior to the piston failure?

Here is a picture if what you need:

MarkWard · Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 6:39 am Post subject:

When the time comes to reinstall the apply piston for second gear, my advice would be to do it with the valve body removed. With the valve body removed you can be sure that the pin is properly seated on the brake band as well as the adjusting pin.

I use a pair of welder's vice grips to hold the piston in place to install the circlip that retains the cover. With the valve body out of the way, it gives a place for the vice grip jaw to seat.

I would not reuse those parts either, but what about the ones from your original transmission? The valve body is easy to service while it is out. There aren't any real replacement parts and it requires you to be extremely organized. The main thing you can check in the valve body is that all the pistons are free to move in their bores. There are 4 or 5 check balls you need to watch out for and I would not attempt without the factory manual handy.
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table · Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 5:35 pm Post subject:

Oh yay! All the heavy hitters whose posts about transmissions I have been reading are commenting! Awesome.

My question was mostly about the galling on the shafts coming out of the valve body in the third photo. Normal? Abnormal?

I already have the valve body out. I decided it wasn't worth the risk of messing things up during reinstallation of the actuator. Plus, I'm really glad I did pull it because the filter screen has a tear in it, which I wouldn't have seen otherwise. I'll be replacing that.

I happened to go past a junkyard that had an audi 100 today. On the Audis, is the cover held on with a split ring, same as vanagons, or with a couple of bolts? I could sort of see a cover that looked like it was the right size on the driver's side of the car but it was held on with 2 bolts. Do you happen to know which VWs have the improved part? Not many Audis around.

Do any of y'all have one of the riveted disk/shaft setups I could buy?

AtlasShrugged · Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 7:17 pm Post subject:

Those shafts/covers don't really move..so the scrapes must be from some effort to clean them or prior installation marks, somewhere in the history.

That Audi 100 you looked at must be an early model..that automatic had a vacuum modulator and were built different. Anything VWOA from the 80s will work. The Audi 100/200/5000 part will work if the cover is held in with the clip.

Most of the later 010 automatics from VW/Audi had the better part...look for a 3 speed auto in any late 80's car or Vanagon.

MarkWard · Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 6:32 am Post subject:

Audi did make a 100LS in the early 70s not to be confused with the late 80's Audi 100 that was the re-badged Audi 5000. You don't want that one, but they would be extremely rare after all these years. VW used the same automatic in their Dashers, Rabbits, Golfs, Jettas and Quantums 75 through at least 86 if that helps. The cover with bolts sounds like a governor cover in the differential.

You must be intimate with yours by now. The one you are looking for should be almost identical. Remember, the automatic is just a section of the entire transaxle. In other words, the other half will look different from your vanagon differential. Make sense?
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table · Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 12:45 am Post subject:

I was able to get to a junkyard and picked up the guts from a '93 Cabriolet. You'd think that would have the updated one piece part, but no - same circlip design as the older models.

Before I found the cabriolet I took out one from an '89 Jetta and it had the same broken circlip that mine has!

table · Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 2:41 pm Post subject:

The two failures I have seen firsthand now (the trans in my Vanagon and the '89 Jetta in the wrecking yard) both had broken e-clips.

What do y'all think about putting an external snap ring on instead of an e-clip? Am I taking the hard road here? Snap rings can withstand a much larger load than e-clips.

(an external snap ring)

(an e clip)

cgoehri · Samba Member Joined: November 16, 2013 Posts: 6

Hard to tell from pic, but could your plastic piece be part of a plastic
thrust washer? That would be important.

geo_tonz · Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 3:51 pm Post subject:

Replacement Parts don't seem to ridiculous, At least getting shipped within the states!
http://www.transpartsonline.com/tpfile/tpcat.asp?TransPartsOnline=010&TransPartsType=010

http://www.bulkpart.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=2&Category_Code=VW-010

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...p;start=20

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=580861
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Red Vanagon

"Ron Burgundy": 1991 Vanagon Multivan (Weekender) 2.1L Auto - Driver/Camper

AtlasShrugged · Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 6:39 pm Post subject:

The part number printed on the servo piston/w heavy riveted washer is 010 323 513H..The Audi 200 servo piston (same part) is 087323512A...Table let me know if you need one.

table · Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:43 pm Post subject:

geo_tonz · Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 3:17 pm Post subject:

So did you get this resolved? People nervously planning on following in your footsteps are wanting to know...
Thanks!

PS:
Stumbled on this link:
http://www.vanagonparts.com/at_service.html
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Red Vanagon

"Ron Burgundy": 1991 Vanagon Multivan (Weekender) 2.1L Auto - Driver/Camper

table · Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 12:36 am Post subject:

table · Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 12:39 am Post subject:

Oh -- regarding which fluid, there's another thread going discussing Dextron III vs. VI

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=588198

Terry Kay · Banned Joined: June 22, 2003 Posts: 13331

Type F is a far superior ATF in that trans than Dextron of any numerical designation.
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T.K.

table · Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 3:37 pm Post subject: Fiinished - success!

Don't you just hate it when you read all the way through a thread only to see there's no conclusion?

I got everything back together as planned:

-cleaned the valve body
-put the piston from the cabriolet in using a large clamp and the procedure described in other threads
-buttoned everything up

It shifts great! Well, as great as they ever do. That said, I haven't driven it much yet because I bought an oil pressure sensor and, well, let's just say I have something else to worry about now!

IdahoDoug · Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 7:11 pm Post subject:

Thanks! Yes, I was wondering as well - glad to hear it.
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1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader


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Replacing second gear brake band cover - questions
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