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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22639 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2022 2:45 pm Post subject: Re: Bostig oil drain/change |
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9 years in between gripes. Cmon, Bostig, can’t you better ?
# sar-chasm _________________ .ssS! |
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Phishman068 Samba Member
Joined: February 19, 2007 Posts: 1867 Location: Pittsburgh PA (ish)
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Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2022 2:18 pm Post subject: Re: Bostig oil drain/change |
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Wow, that's some hate.
I run a fabrication shop for a living, and I couldn't POSSIBLY build a pan of the quality of the HCOP for $600.
Do you realize how small a market this is, and how custom a piece this is?
Have a single "one off" built locally, go for it!
I can promise you, no one will touch it for this price.
Similar oil pans for various other conversions cost similar money, some even MORE!
(Foreign Auto Supply)
I've been very very satisfied with my HCOP over the 10 years I've had it, I can lift the entire car from the oil pan- something I wouldn't dare do with any other conversion, it's THAT strong, thick, and custom.
The oil pan is a work of art, some folks just can't appreciate art. _________________ http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=559766&highlight=winter+rust
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482402&highlight=sunroof+syncro
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=569774
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6864936#6864936
"Along with the ability to go fast, one looses the desire to hurry." |
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MsTaboo Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2006 Posts: 4083 Location: East Kootenay, British Columbia
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Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2022 12:55 pm Post subject: Re: Bostig oil drain/change |
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Parkker wrote: |
Still have the original oil pan which rides ridiculously low to the ground. I supported Bostig as an early customer before they had this "upgrade". It's supposed to increase ground clearance by an inch and one-half which is definitely needed but Bostig want's $595 plus $55 shipping for an oil pan. Bend over former customers. No thanks. I would not go with Bostig if I had it to do over. I'll make my oil pan it will be better than this overpriced undrainable pos anyway. |
Hmm...undrainable? Gee, I just did an oil change on mine and it drained just fine.
The HCOP has a couple quirky points, it's a bit hard to install and you need to be sure and clock the dip stick correctly, but these are the necessary evils to get an oil pan with increased ground clearance and extra oil capacity.
Good luck building something better. Be sure and post pictures of the result, we'd all like to see your skills.
(although not likely, you've never posted any pictures in 13 years)
You've complained about Bostig making upgrades to their kit before and the cost of buying into the upgrades.
By your reasoning Bostig should have foreseen every new development before releasing the kit, and selling any upgrades at cost.
Your reasoning would have automakers never making any changes to their product, we'd all still be driving Model A's _________________ Currently:
'90 Syncro Westy 3 knob w/Zetec
The information age has morphed into the age of disinformation and willful ignorance. Agnotology!
Help the fight against Truth Decay.
Defend democracy, support Ukraine. |
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boulderdrop Samba Member
Joined: February 06, 2008 Posts: 481 Location: Seattle, WA
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Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2022 7:21 pm Post subject: Re: Bostig oil drain/change |
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To each his own. This post has been quiet since 2014 though. 8 years
I have the HC oil pan. It's very high quality and easy worth it. Maybe to have mad skills, but I don't most people could fabricate anything close. The stock focus is practically cardboard. The Bostig one could park on a rock, if the motor could handle it. _________________ == My Rides ==
1984 Westy, Bostig, 3rd:1.14, Locker-LSD, Newly Painted
1980 24' J-Boat
1979 Sears Freespirit Moped
1996 Chev S10 4x4 ZR2
2012 Toyota Camry Hybrid (Wife's)
== How I Pay the Bills ==
Windows FTP Server at http://www.bpftpserver.com (PM for a FREE one) |
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Parkker Samba Member
Joined: March 02, 2009 Posts: 35 Location: South Dakota
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Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2022 3:51 pm Post subject: Re: Bostig oil drain/change |
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Still have the original oil pan which rides ridiculously low to the ground. I supported Bostig as an early customer before they had this "upgrade". It's supposed to increase ground clearance by an inch and one-half which is definitely needed but Bostig want's $595 plus $55 shipping for an oil pan. Bend over former customers. No thanks. I would not go with Bostig if I had it to do over. I'll make my oil pan it will be better than this overpriced undrainable pos anyway. |
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bostig Samba Member
Joined: February 01, 2006 Posts: 235
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Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 10:38 am Post subject: |
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furrylittleotter wrote: |
I am intentionally ignoring your so-called challenge to measure my oil pan because 1. I do not believe in vendors taking to a public forum being utilized by consumers. I think you have made it clear that you will continue to operate as a company that sells a pan that can not be drained normally or properly among other interesting habits. 2. That is a pointless test. 3. Isn't it the vendor's job to show the advantages of their conversion? 4. Trust me, you would be embarrassed if I did. You're welcome.
I find it very strange that a vanagon owner would think having an oil pan that can clear a kerb or a mere 6.5 inches of clearance is a lot…My girlfriend's Versa has that much clearance. Don't Vanagons with horizontally opposed engines (as God intended) typically have twice that? (I know mine does…oops)
I am sure by version 20 they will have everything perfected…again, or not.
Neil2 |
Hi Neil2,
I actually think that taking to public forums is perhaps the biggest benefit of being in a tiny market like vanagonland. I can understand why in the case of huge faceless corporations, but Bostig is Kyle managing production and support, Brady co-founder and destructive tester, and Myself doing the rest. I think that having folks like Ben, Peter, Dylan, Mike, Chris, Daryl(miss ya), Kirk, Ken, Ron, and Burl in the forums helps facilitate much that is missing in larger customer/company relationships, better communication.
I think our customers stand up for and support us because we do the same for them. It's been a struggle the last 10 years or so not taking criticism personally, but I've learned to do it. I can imagine some customers are trying to protect us personally as well since they have spoken with us and know us a bit, and know we aren't just "Bostig" we are the few behind it.
There is plenty we can and have been criticized for. We've made our mistakes and had plenty of costly fails along the way. From the very beginning, another cult of VW purists/fanboys called me a blasphemer for even suggesting putting anything other than a VW into the engine bay... it's been an uphill battle not only in general philosophy, but sales as well.
Over time the results have proven the point that blind brand loyalty doesn't give the best answers, actual results should foster loyalty.
As for any embarrassment due to numbers, there is no need to worry there, my curiosity and fondness for data always trumps my ego, which is why Bostig is the way it is to begin with. I'd rather know the truth than believe I am right for the sake of it any day. Anyone that really knows me understands this, my girlfriend does, but even Brady also thinks I just always need to be right . Not true, the behavior can be confused since it's similar, the motivations are profoundly different.
As for it being a relevant test, it is the easiest way to perform a relevant measure. You need a normalizer, and the wheel arch requires no crawling to measure.
It goes like this. When you go get a physical and they measure your height, you take your shoes off. It doesn't makes sense to measure and compare people's height with shoes on because of all the variation and the shoes can be changed. Height cannot.
In the exact same way, suspension and tires/wheels can be changed, the relationship between a given powertrain and chassis (which is what we talk about in comparing conversions) is fixed. So to "take the shoes off" you must eliminate the tire/wheel/suspension variation with a normalizer... and like I mentioned the one that is easiest without crawling is the rear wheel arch. I chose the easiest point to try and get other folks to volunteer data, but that failed just as is has with you.
You are not alone in your reluctance. When I tried to get this info before from other people on thesamba (search the other threads you'll see) only a handful ever offered up numbers. We published a calculator on the 2010 site to punch in your wheel arch height and it could tell you your resulting ground clearance and departure angle number right there with the Bostig. Nobody cared, most people got confused, and I pulled it in the site update along with ton's of other information that was too much.
As for the oil, if we mounted a downfacing plug with a divet to drain fully (you'd still have a film all over the engine and oil in oil passages) it would become the impact point, and if hit would breach first. It would also lower the ground clearance just so that one more cup of oil would not remain.
I've done enough oil testing over the years to know how far ahead the recommendation for our 3k oil changes is. It is half the interval for the focus itself, and a different weight BTW (that recommendation was based on work done with Boston Bob RIP) in any case, if you follow our recommendations there is no risk of lubrication from worn oil ever being the problem, cup of oil left over or not.
I don't expect you to change your mind on anything, but I hope you can understand why a bit better on those things. For every part, step, and change we've ever done I will have those whys. I've put a LOT of work into my understanding of how to keep people and their vans travelling, it is imperfect, it is full of errors and omissions, and it will never truly be done, but it is enough to realize the goals and keep people happy with their support of the effort.
I don't mind the criticism. Sometimes it yields angles I haven't thought of and perspectives that I haven't taken. But if it's just out of anger and isn't constructive, then I just recall the "man in the arena" and keep going
-Jim Akiba |
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boulderdrop Samba Member
Joined: February 06, 2008 Posts: 481 Location: Seattle, WA
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Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 9:36 am Post subject: |
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Oil Changes: I realized that my drive-way has slope that dips the van's nose down and towards the passenger side. I get 5q and some change. But I do have this specific slant and I let it drip for a good hour. It's not inconvenient.
Bostig Fan-Boys: Obvious Troll Poster. I know, because I like to Troll Too. It's a fun past-time, but I don't do it on sites like TheSamba.com; because we're all Fan-Boys of the vanagon platform and I'm a fan-boy of Bostig... just like that guy over there is a fan-boy of Subies with his conversion... and that one over there with his TDI... and the old-skool stock guys sticking with WBX.
I went with the Bostig at a time that I got sick and tired of paying my local shop $100/hour to fix my van, because I didn't know anything. I had no idea of what a clutch really did or looked like, why the shop charges what it does for services and how to fix my van when it breaks down on the side of the highway.
I bought the kit, bought a shit load of tools, setup the garage for work and loaded up all the videos on a computer in the shop. Their videos literally taught me to work on cars. Their documentation showed me step-by-step what to do. Their support line had someone on the other side to answer my questions. Over the course of ~90h, I learned to work on my van. I learned what a clutch was, what it looked like how to replace it and why shops charge what they do for work.
My conversion wasn't perfect, I fucked a lot of stuff up, but I took it to a local Bostig installer (yes they exist, Eion in Seattle) and he fine tuned my setup. It's been 4 years and ~22k miles and now I do all work on my van. Everything in the rolling chassis has been fixed, reconditioned, replaced, etc.
While one's enthusiasm is greater than any kit-conversion, Bostig's refinement and teaching approach gave me valuable vocational experience and the skills I need to keep my van going. _________________ == My Rides ==
1984 Westy, Bostig, 3rd:1.14, Locker-LSD, Newly Painted
1980 24' J-Boat
1979 Sears Freespirit Moped
1996 Chev S10 4x4 ZR2
2012 Toyota Camry Hybrid (Wife's)
== How I Pay the Bills ==
Windows FTP Server at http://www.bpftpserver.com (PM for a FREE one) |
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insyncro Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002 Posts: 15086 Location: New York
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Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 6:31 am Post subject: |
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Use a fluid extractor if you want all of the oil and no mess |
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JudoJeff Samba Member
Joined: May 24, 2013 Posts: 1179 Location: Near Springfield, MA
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Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 6:22 am Post subject: |
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I personally thought joining a cult and getting a solid, dependable conversion was worth it. My friend is 100x the mechanic I am, and is installing a subaru into his Westy. It's taking months, and I know I could never do that. Bostig's paint by numbers approach makes it doable for anyone.
See you all at the big bonfire on the Boston Common, looking forward to dancing naked during the full moon. Just hope my feathered head dress is back from the dry cleaners..... _________________ ________________________________________
1989 Vanagon GL Westfalia Camper, Burned up on 7/31/16.
1987 Vanagon GL Westfalia Camper, Bostig & Rebuilt, sold
1986 Vanagon GL Westfalia Camper, Bostig Sold May 10, 2021
1999 Ford GTRV Westfalia camper (30% bigger Westy layout) |
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thatvwbusguy Samba Member
Joined: April 18, 2007 Posts: 1712 Location: Newmarket, New Hampshire
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Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 4:31 am Post subject: |
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What I am trying to figure out is who is deeming the Bostig conversion "the end-all, be-all ultimate conversion company and their conversions as all that and a bag of chips".
Oh right, that would be all of their happy customers.
Obvious troll is obvious. _________________ Jay Brown
'85 Zetec Westfalia
Newmarket, NH
If you want others to be happy, practice compassion.
If you want to be happy, practice compassion. |
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Phishman068 Samba Member
Joined: February 19, 2007 Posts: 1867 Location: Pittsburgh PA (ish)
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Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 3:58 am Post subject: |
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Neil2, I hope we can turn that passion into constructive product development by adding your experiences and empirical data.
So on your zetec conversion, you have had problems with the oil draining from the high clearance oil pan and would prefer that the plug was more convenient?
And you have insufficient ground clearance (6" you said?) on your zetec conversion?
Let's see if we can't solve those problems for you as a community of zetec owners willing to provide support for our standardized and well supported conversion, in addition to the help that bostig will provide when you submit your service ticket or call them with your emergency.
Right?
Because surely you wouldn't be citing low clearance on a conversion you don't even own or have empirical data for, or complain about the ease of maintenance on a vehicle you essentially don't own, you're certainly wiser then that.
I'm not about to start talking about how poorly my mclarren f1 dives into the corners under braking or how difficult it is for me to adjust the valves on my Audi r8, because I don't own them....or have experience with them.
The "challenge" that Jim issued was just to see if your conversion actually is better in terms of ground clearance. It can be measured and compared, it's not an opinion, it's data.
It is my opinion and the opinion of most that the zetec does LOOK low, because it's a single low point centered in the frame. It draws the eye down and looks low, as opposed to a wbxer or Subaru which has a consistent low point drawing the eyes across (mustache bar or muffler). There is no denying that the zetec aesthetically looks low, but we can actually PROVE, with FACTS and measurements what the actual clearance is.
But low clearance is really the issue right?
I've got no trouble at all crawling under mine and while I certainly don't have a large belly, if it's tall enough to drive over me, it's tall enough to drive over most things.
Myself and many other owners take our zetec powered syncros through some aggressive off roading conditions and have no clearance relate problems. _________________ http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=559766&highlight=winter+rust
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482402&highlight=sunroof+syncro
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=569774
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6864936#6864936
"Along with the ability to go fast, one looses the desire to hurry." |
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LeftCoastKiteboarding Samba Member
Joined: January 05, 2013 Posts: 123 Location: Left Coast
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Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 12:33 am Post subject: |
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Well Neil2, that's a lot of hatin' and I'm not gonna' try to stop ya.
But I will say this... I've watched Bostig and all the other conversion options out there for 100k waiting for my motor to get tired. I carefully considered them all and like things about each. None are perfect and all have some great features. But here's what I loved most about the Bostig conversion....
I spent 3 1/2 days on the conversion. (Without a lift or a real shop) and had no previous experience with the zetec or transplants in general. At the end of that process, I got in my van, turned the key, and DROVE IT HOME! That's it. Done.
THAT is what really sets Jim and the guys apart. Show me any other conversion system that matches that.
YMMV, (but mine is running about 22mpg... |
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furrylittleotter Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2008 Posts: 1506 Location: West Seattle
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Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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I don't have a beef with Bostig or any person that chooses to use their conversion. Go forth and prosper.
What I do have a problem with is how the have been portrayed at the "End-all", "be-all", Ultimate conversion company and their conversions as all that and a bag of chips, they can do no wrong and their conversions either, much like Apple, which is a company I could rip to shreds for a million reasons, yet they have an unbelievable pass from even the most ardent anti-capitalists in this country who go to great lengths to rip to shreds every single business in the country except Apple.
Is this a legitimate beef? Maybe, maybe not, but it amuses me to compare the two sets of followers who appear to worship the companies like a bunch of moonies.
IF I point out what is glaringly obvious to all but the sun-worshippers I do so with all the best of intentions and wishes…. If my observations do not apply, simply ignore them, if they do, consider them a challenge.
I am intentionally ignoring your so-called challenge to measure my oil pan because 1. I do not believe in vendors taking to a public forum being utilized by consumers. I think you have made it clear that you will continue to operate as a company that sells a pan that can not be drained normally or properly among other interesting habits. 2. That is a pointless test. 3. Isn't it the vendor's job to show the advantages of their conversion? 4. Trust me, you would be embarrassed if I did. You're welcome.
I find it very strange that a vanagon owner would think having an oil pan that can clear a kerb or a mere 6.5 inches of clearance is a lot…My girlfriend's Versa has that much clearance. Don't Vanagons with horizontally opposed engines (as God intended) typically have twice that? (I know mine does…oops)
I am sure by version 20 they will have everything perfected…again, or not.
Neil2 |
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vwlovr Samba Member
Joined: May 21, 2006 Posts: 1122 Location: on the road
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Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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so jimbo, why is the drain pointing forward instead of to the right? seems like it would make draining with the skid plate way easier. |
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kalispell365 Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2010 Posts: 889 Location: PNW
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Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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bostig wrote: |
On the draining of the HC Oilpan, without the skidplate you'll get just about eveything out other than the height of the threads and gasket radius needed to seal when level. If you put the driver's wheel up on a ramp or jack it you can get more, but it shouldn't be enough to be worth it.
If you have the skidplate installed all the time, then you need to lift the driver's side and use a bit of cardboard or plastic with a crease to drain it. This is so that no low point (as seen in OEM stock pans) is needed, which increases cost, adds a lower hit point, and would require the entire skidplate to be that much lower.
If you are still suspicious you aren't getting enough, call, email, or submit a ticket and we can figure out if anything else/weird is going on.
furrylittleotter wrote: |
I am pleased my stock Subaru pan drains just fine and is still higher that a bostig.
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Neil2, if you're game: with your van on even pavement, can you measure your ground clearance at the lowest point, along with the distance from the ground to your wheel arch (body panel, middle of the bottom edge of the arch) height?
If you have subie stock pan, you should be a couple inches worse off than a Bostig with the HC Oilpan. Early versions used to have worse ground clearance but we are now equal or better to recent subaru based installs we have data for. For instance Syncro Bo https://www.facebook.com/SyncroBo gained .5" when it was converted from a 2.2L subaru based RMW install, and the Bostig has significantly higher departure angle than all conversions, 1.8t being the lowest departure angle.
I don't take offense to your comments about Apple, I take it as a compliment, and you have an excellent point. The evil part isn't true, but we are very much like Apple. We offer a unified system that will definitely work for anyone that wants to use it. The other options like subaru based installs are more like DIY PCs. You can indeed get excellent bang for the buck if you know what you are doing and put in the time, but you'll have to do a lot more work, and have a lot more expertise to do it. In addition the risks will be higher down the road, just like the Apple vs. PC debate except in gremlins not viruses/malware.
You can read about our philosophy in the blog on the site as to why we believe this is a better approach for those less interested in building/modding vanagons and more interested in travelling/driving vanagons, which is who we build for.
As for the slogan. We just have more conversions/miles than any other vendor (and we are not nearly the oldest either), and all those people trusted us and our products with their money/time/effort. They wrote it for us.
-Jim Akiba |
I am a die hard Subaru fanatic,both in my career and my conversion,and I have to say this is the most impressive,professional and level headed response Ive seen on any conversion thread.Although in fairness,RMW also seems to have quite an impressive repor as well.
Good on you,Jim Akiba! |
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vanagonjr Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2010 Posts: 3431 Location: Dartmouth, Mass.
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Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 9:42 am Post subject: |
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bostig wrote: |
If you have the skidplate installed all the time, then you need to lift the driver's side and use a bit of cardboard or plastic with a crease to drain it. |
Flexible funnel from Pig here might be helpful. http://www.newpig.com/pig/US/
Available at their website (enter flexible funnel in search) , Northern Tool and elsewhere.
Hope this helps someone. _________________ John - 86 Wolfsburg Westfalia "Weekender"
Flint reversed 1.8T W/Passat 5-Speed
LiMBO (late model bus club) www.limbobus.org
LiMBO is on Facebook too! https://www.facebook.com/groups/
FAQ thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=525798 |
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buildyourown Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2009 Posts: 1668 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 8:04 am Post subject: |
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Oh man. I like my Bostig but I hate all things Apple. What am I to do?
And no, the conversion isn't infallible. I deviated from the kit a bit, and I think there are some flaws. I saw things, that as an engineer/machinist/mechanic I just didn't like. I changed them. Overall it is the easiest install with the best quality parts of current options.
When I first did my oil change, I was parked on a slight slope. Nose up. I flipped the van and jacked rear tire a couple inches. Got a solid drain.
All the other cars I've ever worked on definitly leave 1/2 qt in the pan or more.
The drain plug is actually easy to reach. You can get it from the top, with the skid plate on. No crawling on the ground. |
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Camp&Ride Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2007 Posts: 88 Location: SLC Utah
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Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 7:50 am Post subject: |
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Try backing onto ramps situated/staggered so that the rear driver side is a bit higher than passenger rear. Also, stuff a rag behind the drain plug between the pan and the skidplate to keep oil from flowing back onto the plate. I've heard of people backing the driver rear tire onto a curb. _________________ 2WD 86 Westy
Zetec Inside |
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alnvilma Samba Member
Joined: March 07, 2002 Posts: 395
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Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 7:28 am Post subject: |
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furrylittleotter,
Why the sour grapes over a conversion you didn't employ?
That last photo you posted is mine: I used the Ford Contour pan w/o any change in tire size on my 2WD. I have 6.5" of clearance (it actuall does clear the curb!). There's complete drainage and it's the fastest, simplest oil change I've ever performed. Wish I had the shorter pan? Sure, but don't need it in my application. I routinely roll a wheel up on the curb to crawl under my other cars for clearance and drainage to the plug. Big deal, not!
My next new family ride will be a new Subaru. Love them! It will have the same clearance as my bus and I won't bitch a bit... |
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bostig Samba Member
Joined: February 01, 2006 Posts: 235
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Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 5:53 am Post subject: |
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On the draining of the HC Oilpan, without the skidplate you'll get just about eveything out other than the height of the threads and gasket radius needed to seal when level. If you put the driver's wheel up on a ramp or jack it you can get more, but it shouldn't be enough to be worth it.
If you have the skidplate installed all the time, then you need to lift the driver's side and use a bit of cardboard or plastic with a crease to drain it. This is so that no low point (as seen in OEM stock pans) is needed, which increases cost, adds a lower hit point, and would require the entire skidplate to be that much lower.
If you are still suspicious you aren't getting enough, call, email, or submit a ticket and we can figure out if anything else/weird is going on.
furrylittleotter wrote: |
I am pleased my stock Subaru pan drains just fine and is still higher that a bostig.
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Neil2, if you're game: with your van on even pavement, can you measure your ground clearance at the lowest point, along with the distance from the ground to your wheel arch (body panel, middle of the bottom edge of the arch) height?
If you have subie stock pan, you should be a couple inches worse off than a Bostig with the HC Oilpan. Early versions used to have worse ground clearance but we are now equal or better to recent subaru based installs we have data for. For instance Syncro Bo https://www.facebook.com/SyncroBo gained .5" when it was converted from a 2.2L subaru based RMW install, and the Bostig has significantly higher departure angle than all conversions, 1.8t being the lowest departure angle.
I don't take offense to your comments about Apple, I take it as a compliment, and you have an excellent point. The evil part isn't true, but we are very much like Apple. We offer a unified system that will definitely work for anyone that wants to use it. The other options like subaru based installs are more like DIY PCs. You can indeed get excellent bang for the buck if you know what you are doing and put in the time, but you'll have to do a lot more work, and have a lot more expertise to do it. In addition the risks will be higher down the road, just like the Apple vs. PC debate except in gremlins not viruses/malware.
You can read about our philosophy in the blog on the site as to why we believe this is a better approach for those less interested in building/modding vanagons and more interested in travelling/driving vanagons, which is who we build for.
As for the slogan. We just have more conversions/miles than any other vendor (and we are not nearly the oldest either), and all those people trusted us and our products with their money/time/effort. They wrote it for us.
-Jim Akiba |
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