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physast
Samba Member
Joined: December 30, 2005
Posts: 675
Location: DC
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 Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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| uncommonvw wrote: |
| physast wrote: |
| I have seen some diesel vans.. Are these as reliable as gas vans? What are the main differences (besides the obvious). |
All the vans are old so reliability is dependant on maintenance and sometimes, luck.
They do, however, have most of the parts necessary to upgrade to the 1.6TD or 1.9TD or TDI. I've driven a Westy and a Doka with a 1.6TD and they were both adequate. You still won't win any drag races but people won't be cursing you on the highway if you're in front.. 
Which diesel Westy are you looking at? A nice one just came up on thesamba.
Did you see the link I posted for the one in BC, Canada? That van appears to be a good value. Maybe a little far away but it has some nice features. |
I looked at the ad you posted. I am hesitant to travel far right now to look at a vanagon because to be honest the last time I saw one was 10 years ago and I am still in my research phase. |
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physast
Samba Member
Joined: December 30, 2005
Posts: 675
Location: DC
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| Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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| dobryan wrote: |
This one has been on CL for a while. Not a new listing at all. There is likely a reason it has not sold yet..... |
Good to know. Thanks. |
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Nachtfalter
Samba Member
Joined: July 09, 2011
Posts: 139
Location: Surf Beach California
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| Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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| dobryan wrote: |
This one has been on CL for a while. Not a new listing at all. There is likely a reason it has not sold yet..... |
Its Jersey. If its not a 1989 convertible Camaro, it will probably take a while to sell. It looks like its worth looking at for sure. |
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dobryan
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 16507
Location: Brookeville, MD
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| Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Nachtfalter wrote: |
| dobryan wrote: |
This one has been on CL for a while. Not a new listing at all. There is likely a reason it has not sold yet..... |
Its Jersey. If its not a 1989 convertible Camaro, it will probably take a while to sell. It looks like its worth looking at for sure. |
It's Jersey is why I think it has not sold. It looks fine in the pics but I bet it has rust issues that are not evident until you see it in person. If it was a good deal it would be gone, Jersey or not. 
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Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD
"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson
MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646
Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371
The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794 |
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Capulina
Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2013
Posts: 28
Location: Fairfax, CA
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| Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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I urge you to buy the van of your dreams! Best choice we ever made. But strongly agree with the prevailing advice to set aside a good portion of your $25K budget for additional work (or increase your budget). I speak from experience here. A reasonably conservative approach is to reserve a third of your budget for improvements, whether planned or unplanned.
Many people on this forum have spent more money fixing up their vans, than they did to buy them in the first place. The improvement costs are 2-3x higher higher if you are paying someone for the work versus doing it yourself.
Until you go through the van inch by inch, you should assume that any manner of issues can and WILL pop up. With a 25-30 yr old Westy, there is a good probability of developing costly issues with the engine, transmission, etc. (unless the drive train has already been upgraded, and maybe still then). Likewise for electrical, body rust, suspension, much less camper features (fridge, faucet, stove, propane, tent, A.C., heater, etc). It all adds up really quickly!!
I would only buy a van after testing compression and giving it a VERY thorough test drive and walk down. |
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uncommonvw
Samba Member
Joined: July 12, 2004
Posts: 230
Location: Jordan, ON Canada
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| Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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| physast wrote: |
| uncommonvw wrote: |
| physast wrote: |
| I have seen some diesel vans.. Are these as reliable as gas vans? What are the main differences (besides the obvious). |
All the vans are old so reliability is dependant on maintenance and sometimes, luck.
They do, however, have most of the parts necessary to upgrade to the 1.6TD or 1.9TD or TDI. I've driven a Westy and a Doka with a 1.6TD and they were both adequate. You still won't win any drag races but people won't be cursing you on the highway if you're in front..
Which diesel Westy are you looking at? A nice one just came up on thesamba.
Did you see the link I posted for the one in BC, Canada? That van appears to be a good value. Maybe a little far away but it has some nice features. |
I looked at the ad you posted. I am hesitant to travel far right now to look at a vanagon because to be honest the last time I saw one was 10 years ago and I am still in my research phase. |
You can come and get mine and I'll go to BC and get that one. 
Mine is similar to that one (1985 Westfalia 1.8L auto) but I didn't get the rebuilt transmission with higher R&P, Propex furnace, big brake kit, progressive springs, or a 2.0L. Those features would cost about 1/2 of the asking price of the Westy just to buy the parts.
Good luck. It can be tough to find one at the right time for the right price. I got mine from 6.5 hours away because I wanted a converted Westfalia. Next to no WBX around here for parts and only one good mechanic (always busy) that knows the engine. I'm fairly comfortable around a 1.8L 8V. |
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Terry Kay
Banned
Joined: June 22, 2003
Posts: 13331
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| Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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One of the issues mentioned above is a fact of owning a vanagon.
Shops that are willing to work on them are far& few in between, as are the individuals who know how to .
I know, your going to do all of the work.
What happens when your out on the road?
Interesting things to consider, unless of course you plan on pulling a trailer with enough tools & parts to do whatever it's going to take to get rolling again.
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T.K. |
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physast
Samba Member
Joined: December 30, 2005
Posts: 675
Location: DC
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| Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Terry Kay wrote: |
One of the issues mentioned above is a fact of owning a vanagon.
Shops that are willing to work on them are far& few in between, as are the individuals who know how to .
I know, your going to do all of the work.
What happens when your out on the road?
Interesting things to consider, unless of course you plan on pulling a trailer with enough tools & parts to do whatever it's going to take to get rolling again. |
I actually don't plan on doing all the work on my Vanagon if/when I get one. I hope to learn and know how to keep my beetle running, but do not know nor have the tools to rebuild the beetle engine.
So I guess I should ask, how unreliable are the vanagons? Does anyone ever take a trip in one without it breaking down? Do the vanagons have a fatal flaw in the design?
I am familiar with mechanical work and it seems with most things you can keep it running with regular maintenance and care. |
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ThankYouJerry
Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2012
Posts: 2271
Location: Shakedown Street
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| Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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| physast wrote: |
So I guess I should ask, how unreliable are the vanagons? Does anyone ever take a trip in one without it breaking down? Do the vanagons have a fatal flaw in the design?
I am familiar with mechanical work and it seems with most things you can keep it running with regular maintenance and care. |
Vanagons certainly can be reliable. But, unless you have gone through EVERY system on your (at least) 23 year old Vanagon you cannot rely on it like a 2014 model vehicle. So have your wallet, cell phone, AAA card, and tool box at the ready… and in the meantime BE PATIENT AND LOOK LONG AND HARD FOR THE BEST CONDITION VANAGON YOU CAN AFFORD.
Fatal flaw? Several. Among others:
1. Old fuel lines and the plastic fuel line fire wall fitting
2. Old brake lines and/or master cylinder
3. Neglected routine maintenance
4. Previous owners 
_________________
1990 Multivan - "Ohana"
1.8T, Auto w/3.27 R&P + Peloquin TBD |
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Terry Kay
Banned
Joined: June 22, 2003
Posts: 13331
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| Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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The Vanagon Westfalia's are a one of a kind vehicle.
No doubt.
However as mentioned they sure aren't a new ride--or even close to it.
Perhaps if you tore it down to nothing, and gave it a rotisserie treatment, made evrything from stem to sten brand new, it could be reliable on the road--as reliable as any 90 horse overweight, over taxed ride can be.
Your on this Vanagon forum--take a good look at the other postings here.
" Help I'm broke down in BFE, what do I do now", etc, etc, etc.
They are fun to drive for sure, and the Westfalia option is one of a kind.
However, I would have to think twice prior to taking off to LA, Seattle , or any point west that's over 100 miles.
Been towed twice for miniscule items, that were not available anywhere in the flatlands, and there was no way I was going to wait for the homing pigeon to arrive with what I needed.
It isn't as dependable as what your accustom to--the Bug.
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T.K. |
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Howesight
Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2008
Posts: 3274
Location: Vancouver, B.C.
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| Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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| physast wrote: |
I actually don't plan on doing all the work on my Vanagon if/when I get one. I hope to learn and know how to keep my beetle running, but do not know nor have the tools to rebuild the beetle engine.
So I guess I should ask, how unreliable are the vanagons? Does anyone ever take a trip in one without it breaking down? Do the vanagons have a fatal flaw in the design?
I am familiar with mechanical work and it seems with most things you can keep it running with regular maintenance and care. |
I tried in my post above to list, in perhaps a bit too much detail, the things that typically do go wrong with these vehicles. Only working on them a lot will give a person insight into the things that often do go wrong and, therefore, the ability to quickly rule out the things that, for a given set of symptoms, are not likely to be the culprit.
Many of these things concern parts that should simply be replaced as a matter of course because they are known to fail eventually, are cheap to buy, and are easy to access for replacement. Other things can go bad, but are not worth replacing as a matter of course and instead, are just things you should bring along in case of failure. Some of these items, sadly, fall under the category of being no longer available as original VW parts and only from aftermarket manufacturers as seriously second-rate parts that always seem to fail after half the expected service life. The point in relation to those items, is that it is best to leave in your known-good VW original, but also to carry a spare new item.
A little illustration might be useful, garnered from my own experience. First, until you have addressed a number of the known maintenance items I outlined in my post above, ALWAYS BRING TOOLS. I bring coveralls as well and a couple rags - - placed against the toolbox, they keep it from rattling. Sometimes you will have an incredibly simple repair to make roadside to get back underway, but lack the tools. Frustrating - - so I avoid this by bringing the tool box.
To get back to your questions about reliability, here are a few things that really happened to me, that tend to illustrate why the Westy, in the hands of a knowledgeable owner unafraid to maintain and repair it him/herself, is an INCREDIBLY reliable vehicle. But there are a number of known items that need to almost always be addressed. My own Syncro Westy started out life in the hands of a very careful and maintenance-minded owner in the PNW. It lived most of its life being garaged when not driven. I bought it at just over 200,000 miles with the stock 2.1 litre engine and picked up the SVX engine a few weeks later. (It took me years to get around to doing my engine conversion.)
I also got all the maintenance records and receipts, so I learnt that at about 100,000 miles, the VW dealership replaced the "head gaskets" (actually, water jacket gaskets) and the previous owner told me he changed the coolant every year after that with the proper coolant and distilled water and never had any coolant weeps. It also had the syncro transaxle re-built at around 100,000 miles. The bill from that mid-1990's rebuild was from AA Transaxle(!). The reverse gear had failed, according to the paperwork.
My ex-wife and her husband (we get along very well) borrowed the Westy for a trip all over the southwest, Sedona being the main way-point. The starter died at one point on that trip and they replaced it. ($195 all in). My son and his now-wife have driven the Westy from Vancouver to Orange County, twice, without any incidents. I have driven it all over BC, for thousands of kilometres on a couple trips, without major problems.
The minor problems included:
1. Hitting a bear  at night on a logging road. (Had to pull the fender away from the tire)
2. A bout of "Vanagon syndrome" like bucking I cured roadside by cleaning some wiring grounds;
3. A failed oil-cooler gasket in mid-winter in the middle of nowhere. This one required hitching a ride with a local hunter. This ones carries a very important lesson - - that gasket needs to be replaced as a regular maintenance item. No waiting on this one- - just do it!
4. A flat front tire. Tire was of unknown vintage and unknown provenance - - a self-made problem easily avoided.
These are, in fact, very simple vehicles, even compared to many 1980's Japanese vehicles. When you get poor-running issues, however, you need to have a good understanding of how gasoline engines work in order to diagnose the issues because there are no self-diagnostic tools built in to this vehicle. That's why even mechanics who are unfamiliar with them can needlessly replace a bunch of parts before hitting the real culprit.
There is really no fatal flaw in the design, in response to your question on the point. My theory is that since there is no timing-belt interval on these engines (camshaft is gear-driven), they can go a long time without any maintenance and equally, a long time without any mechanic servicing them. In case you thought otherwise, that is a BAD thing, not a good thing, because many mechanics, getting a vehicle in for a scheduled timing belt change, would tend to warn customers at the same time about other things that look, sound or feel worn out and advise owners to do preventive maintenance.
My WBX engine was only retired after over 225,000 MILES of pushing around an overweight Syncro. Let me repeat: It was NEVER REBUILT - - it only had the water jacket gaskets replaced. Even at 225,000 miles, it was a great running, albeit certifiably tired, little engine. The gearbox was also going strong at that point without any noises.
If I did not have the emotional need for more power and speed, I would have considered that little putt-putt engine to still be a reliable little runner.
Unless you buy something brand-new, you would be just as likely to have a roadside failure of some sort on another vehicle as on the Vanagon Westfalia.
Having said all that, we all have different skill levels and are willing to drive with different unresolved issues.
In this thread is Herman, a clever and artful former Samba regular poster rebuilding his automatic Vanagon transmission:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=253381
Someone else the great idea to start a thread on clever roadside fixes:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5...mp;start=0
This actually reminds me of one instance of a campground repair I forgot. I once replaced my original clutch master cylinder at a campground. This was one of those items I expected to fail eventually, so I had a spare in the van. The funny thing I recall was, when bleeding the clutch at the slave cylinder, ordering my wife, who was in the driver's seat, "pump, pump, pump - - okay, hold it down - - now PUMP HARD, HARD and DON"T STOP until I say to. Okay. Thanks. That was perfect." Only later, walking away from our campsite, did we notice the horrified mother of a couple little girls who had to listen to the clutch bleeding from the other side of the bushes dividing the campgrounds. 
_________________
'86 Syncro Westy SVX |
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LandSailor
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 315
Location: Las Vegas, NV
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physast
Samba Member
Joined: December 30, 2005
Posts: 675
Location: DC
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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Saw this one this morning in the Dallas Texas craigslist and a few other cities...
Sounds good, but I don't think I am ready to jump yet. I still want some face time with a camper and it's owner for some one on one discussion. |
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physast
Samba Member
Joined: December 30, 2005
Posts: 675
Location: DC
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Howesight wrote: |
| Only later, walking away from our campsite, did we notice the horrified mother of a couple little girls who had to listen to the clutch bleeding from the other side of the bushes dividing the campgrounds. |
Classic!
Thanks for the great info, I am feeling slightly overwhelmed, but I am ready to start learning more. Ii am thinking about renting one from valley westy to see how it goes. Might not even like it... (doubt it), but you never know. |
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dobryan
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 16507
Location: Brookeville, MD
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LandSailor
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 315
Location: Las Vegas, NV
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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Also, searchtempest.com lets you search craigslists within X miles of a specified ZIP code.
It's very handy, but opens eBay searches, too. |
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physast
Samba Member
Joined: December 30, 2005
Posts: 675
Location: DC
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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| LandSailor wrote: |
Also, searchtempest.com lets you search craigslists within X miles of a specified ZIP code.
It's very handy, but opens eBay searches, too. |
Been using this a lot. It's amazing some of the prices people are wanting for these campers. |
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physast
Samba Member
Joined: December 30, 2005
Posts: 675
Location: DC
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| Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 3:38 am Post subject: |
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I am thinking about going to take a look at this one.
http://easternshore.craigslist.org/cto/4388080837.html
It is not too far from me and sounds like it might be a good deal. I have not read much about the tiico conversions, but this one was done about 70K miles ago.
It's a one owner with 230K on the van itself. They have all records. I think it is worth looking at and at least will give me some comparison for others. |
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uncommonvw
Samba Member
Joined: July 12, 2004
Posts: 230
Location: Jordan, ON Canada
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| Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 5:03 am Post subject: |
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I glanced at that ad when it was first posted. Looked like a nice Westy for a reasonable price.
Just read a little closer...The Tiico conversion is something I didn't see the first time. That would increase my interest level for sure.
Looks like it might be a good deal. I've always had good luck buying one owner vehicles.
Go check it out and let us know how it goes. |
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physast
Samba Member
Joined: December 30, 2005
Posts: 675
Location: DC
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| Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 5:37 am Post subject: |
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| uncommonvw wrote: |
I glanced at that ad when it was first posted. Looked like a nice Westy for a reasonable price.
Just read a little closer...The Tiico conversion is something I didn't see the first time. That would increase my interest level for sure.
Looks like it might be a good deal. I've always had good luck buying one owner vehicles.
Go check it out and let us know how it goes. |
Looks like someone is going to look at it today. If they don't buy it I will likely go take a look Wednesday.
In the meantime I will look into the Tiico conversions as I have not heard of that one before. |
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