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badlionsfan Samba Member
Joined: February 21, 2014 Posts: 115 Location: Cuyahoga Falls, Ohio
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Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 11:16 pm Post subject: |
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I don't remember what was taught in drivers ed, been too many years and bumps to the head ago. I do remember what I was told in both cdl training and motorcycle safety training. When at a stop light, sign, etc, clutch in and trans in first gear. |
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GArBa Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2014 Posts: 2105 Location: Milano, Italy
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Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 12:19 am Post subject: |
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a (properly maintained and stock) beetle is much more forgiving than pretty much any other manual car. the engine wants to rev and torque is available at very low rpm, so it's a good beginners' car (by carefully applying clutch and accelerator you actually can have it moving form still in any gear - not that you have to do so... ). _________________ cars:
'97 type 1 1600i
'14 type AA Seat Mii (sadly dead after 270.000 km)
'22 type C1 T-Cross
'23 type AC3 Hyundai I10 (VW no longer makes small cars!)
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moped:
'82 Benelli Magnum 3v |
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Juanito84 Samba Member
Joined: March 17, 2012 Posts: 2436 Location: Colorado Mountains
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Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:22 am Post subject: |
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badlionsfan wrote: |
I don't remember what was taught in drivers ed, been too many years and bumps to the head ago. I do remember what I was told in both cdl training and motorcycle safety training. When at a stop light, sign, etc, clutch in and trans in first gear. |
I was told a lot of things in CDL training too. But then I researched it and found a lot of what I was taught was based on rumors, not actual law.
Then a lot of owner's manuals say the exact opposite of what the common rumor is. Even automatic transmissions shouldn't be left in drive for a long time. If you see it on an official paper like the owner's manual or a law book then for best results do what it says. Or just do whatever you want as long as it isn't illegal. _________________ If a water cooled engine cools its water with air, isn't it just an overcomplicated air cooled engine? |
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Busdriver79 Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2011 Posts: 1655 Location: The Peoples' Republic of "No" Jersey
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Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:27 am Post subject: |
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When driving down the road, keep your foot on the floor...not on the clutch pedal...the clutch pedal is NOT a foot rest. |
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Hyperspace Samba Member
Joined: January 03, 2013 Posts: 1166 Location: South Africa
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brendo907 Samba Member
Joined: September 13, 2013 Posts: 339 Location: North Pole, Alaska
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Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 12:18 am Post subject: |
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rev it up an dump the clutch, lol no dont do that...smooth is good |
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jlex Samba Member
Joined: January 23, 2009 Posts: 2902 Location: NW Pennsylvania
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Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 8:04 am Post subject: |
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If anyone who drives a clutch car smoothly takes the time to analyze what they're doing, they'll agree with this advice: When starting out of a stopped position and engaged in first gear, the movement on the clutch is not supposed to be a fluid movement as if you are pressing the accelerator. It is actually a 2 part movement. First part is gently releasing the clutch pedal just enough until you feel it engage.... at that point, STOP lifting your foot from the clutch; once the car is rolling, then follow through by gently releasing the pedal the rest of the way. The sooner you realize that going into 1st gear is a two-step process, the quicker you'll master an easy non-jerky start. The biggest mistake novices make is they assume the clutch pedal is supposed to be let out in one fell swoop... they will either stall the car or cause excessive grabbing. It is really a two stage process with a slight pause between stages.
You do not need to engage the clutch in a two step process for all the other gears... as you are now moving, just let it out smoothly to fully engage the next gear. _________________ jlex.
'70 std. "Elsie"
'88 Carrera |
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SBD Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2012 Posts: 3269 Location: SOUTH DAKOTA
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Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 8:38 am Post subject: |
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Wow! Is it really that difficult? I don't remember anybody ever really showing me or telling me how to do it. My Mom & Dad both drove manual trans cars. I grew up watching them. When the time came for me to drive a manual trans (the first car I bought was a V8 4 speed Barracuda) I got in the car & did it. Sure, I stalled it a few times. Had to figure out how to back uphill out of a parking spot, etc. Heel & toe to start out from a stoplight on a hill. And I have to say that a VW Beetle is probably one of the easiest cars to learn on. Geared so low it's almost impossible to stall one. |
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KaferMike74 Samba Member
Joined: February 11, 2014 Posts: 39 Location: High Point, NC
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Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 8:57 am Post subject: |
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Busdriver79 wrote: |
When driving down the road, keep your foot on the floor...not on the clutch pedal...the clutch pedal is NOT a foot rest. |
Big time, it's incredible how just a little of pressure can eat up your clutch. I have fixed friends cars--not beetles, but toyotas and mazdas--clutch and when i ask them where they put their left foot for resting, a 95% said in the clutch pedal, and in those cars the clutch wears faster due to the hydraulic. |
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79SuperVert Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2002 Posts: 9758 Location: Elizabeth, NJ & La Isla Del Encanto
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Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 9:10 am Post subject: |
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I learned to drive stick in a Squareback, and after that all other clutches seemed so easy...except one: a TR6, which I swore had all of 1/8" of clutch travel before it engaged fully, but that could have been due to maladjustment.
I think if you learn to drive stick in an aircooled VW, you can drive anything else. _________________ Central Jersey VW Society
Wanted: Art Collins VW (Savannah, Georgia) items - license plate surrounds and other items. Also ivory "AM", "FM" and "SW" buttons for a US Blaupunkt Frankfurt. |
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Juanito84 Samba Member
Joined: March 17, 2012 Posts: 2436 Location: Colorado Mountains
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Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 9:11 am Post subject: |
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jlex wrote: |
If anyone who drives a clutch car smoothly takes the time to analyze what they're doing, they'll agree with this advice: When starting out of a stopped position and engaged in first gear, the movement on the clutch is not supposed to be a fluid movement as if you are pressing the accelerator. It is actually a 2 part movement. First part is gently releasing the clutch pedal just enough until you feel it engage.... at that point, STOP lifting your foot from the clutch; once the car is rolling, then follow through by gently releasing the pedal the rest of the way. The sooner you realize that going into 1st gear is a two-step process, the quicker you'll master an easy non-jerky start. The biggest mistake novices make is they assume the clutch pedal is supposed to be let out in one fell swoop... they will either stall the car or cause excessive grabbing. It is really a two stage process with a slight pause between stages.
You do not need to engage the clutch in a two step process for all the other gears... as you are now moving, just let it out smoothly to fully engage the next gear. |
Exactly. I actually do the first part before even using the accelerator pedal.
If you can make it ride as smooth as an automatic you are probably doing it right. _________________ If a water cooled engine cools its water with air, isn't it just an overcomplicated air cooled engine? |
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Zylinderkopf Samba Member
Joined: September 09, 2012 Posts: 679 Location: SE Oklahoma
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Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 11:16 am Post subject: |
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This is sort of a related issue:
My wife and I have an ongoing disagreement about the best way to slow down (for example when coming up to a stop sign). She was taught in driving school - many years ago in Germany - to downshift through the gears. But I think it's easier on the car and the driver to put it in neutral and use the brakes. Opinions? _________________ 1963 Beetle
1966 Beetle 1300
1970 Karmann Ghia Coupe
1971 Super Beetle
1974 Thing
"A lot of people never use their initiative because no one told them to." |
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jlex Samba Member
Joined: January 23, 2009 Posts: 2902 Location: NW Pennsylvania
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Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 11:25 am Post subject: |
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I recommend neither...
Downshifting puts a strain on the transmission and clutch.
Putting it in neutral doesn't allow the engine to slow the car and it's hard on the brakes.
Best practice is to take your foot off the accelerator and leave it in whatever gear it's in, push the brake pedal, then allow the slowing engine to slow the whole car. Before it starts to lug or stall, then press in the clutch pedal and continue to apply the brake until it stops. _________________ jlex.
'70 std. "Elsie"
'88 Carrera |
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jlex Samba Member
Joined: January 23, 2009 Posts: 2902 Location: NW Pennsylvania
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Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 11:33 am Post subject: |
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79SuperVert wrote: |
I learned to drive stick in a Squareback, and after that all other clutches seemed so easy...except one: a TR6, which I swore had all of 1/8" of clutch travel before it engaged fully, but that could have been due to maladjustment.
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I agree w/ your remarks re the TR6. A friend of my back in the '70's had one at college & he bragged that no one but he could drive his Triumph without stalling it. A group of us tried and all failed except me, who had enough sense to really wind the RPM's up before starting out. Very touchy clutch. He wrecked that TR6 the following summer when a bee flew into the car and in swatting at it, he wrecked the car. The bee was unharmed but the car was totaled. _________________ jlex.
'70 std. "Elsie"
'88 Carrera |
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Juanito84 Samba Member
Joined: March 17, 2012 Posts: 2436 Location: Colorado Mountains
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Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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jlex wrote: |
I recommend neither...
Downshifting puts a strain on the transmission and clutch.
Putting it in neutral doesn't allow the engine to slow the car and it's hard on the brakes.
Best practice is to take your foot off the accelerator and leave it in whatever gear it's in, push the brake pedal, then allow the slowing engine to slow the whole car. Before it starts to lug or stall, then press in the clutch pedal and continue to apply the brake until it stops. |
Downshifting isn't hard on the transmission and clutch if you double clutch. I recommend double clutching all downshifts. It might wear out your clutch cable a little faster, but that's much cheaper to replace than the clutch or transmission. _________________ If a water cooled engine cools its water with air, isn't it just an overcomplicated air cooled engine? |
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GArBa Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2014 Posts: 2105 Location: Milano, Italy
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Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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Juanito84 wrote: |
Downshifting isn't hard on the transmission and clutch if you double clutch. I recommend double clutching all downshifts. It might wear out your clutch cable a little faster, but that's much cheaper to replace than the clutch or transmission. |
that. my driving instructor was an "old school" type guy and taught me to downshift by double clutching (I admit I've been a bad student, I often don't double clutch and put stress on the synchromeshes to do their gritty job) and never rely on the brakes as the first mean to slow down the car.
ps. I took my license on an old fiat with a clutch on its last legs and driven around in my grat-uncle's old alfa romeo (front engine and rear clutch and gearbox)... Compared to those, driving a beetle is like driving an automatic. _________________ cars:
'97 type 1 1600i
'14 type AA Seat Mii (sadly dead after 270.000 km)
'22 type C1 T-Cross
'23 type AC3 Hyundai I10 (VW no longer makes small cars!)
-------------------------
moped:
'82 Benelli Magnum 3v |
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wbrown45 Samba Member
Joined: July 08, 2008 Posts: 1318 Location: ada, ok
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Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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When the clutch is engaged during a traffic stop there is added pressure on the flywheel which forces it to push against the thrust bearing. This of course causes the bearing to wear much faster. _________________ OK Thang |
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oldPSUguy Samba Member
Joined: May 21, 2012 Posts: 217 Location: Vancouver WA
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Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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I have driven VW bugs since 1968. I always put the transmission in neutral, when it is going to take more than a few seconds to get a green light. It is much easier on my left leg and knee. When using reverse, often you are on level ground. Once I get the car rolling, I usually depress the clutch pedal to avoid backing more rapidly, than would be safe. With three pedals, and two feet, one needs to be a bit nimble, to maintain control of the vehicle. The clutch pedal is definitely not a foot rest. I think timing the shifting up and down, to accelerate or slow down, is quite important too. Lugging the engine is extremely harmful, so learning how to shift down smoothly must be mastered, and shifting to a higher gear should be done properly, to avoid over reving the engine. The little bars on the speedometer, denoting shifting points, are of some help.
Double clutching may be useful when slowing the vehicle, when you have plenty of time to anticipate a stop. I usually avoid shifting into first gear, when coming to a stop. It is better to rely on your brakes. |
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Volks Wagen Samba Member
Joined: February 13, 2013 Posts: 2926 Location: Germany
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Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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Jeeeeeeeeeezus. You put your left leg in, your left leg out, do the hokey cokey and you shake it all about.. la laaa la la laa .. turn around and that's what it's all about. OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHH hokey hokey cokey! OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHH hokey cokey cokey! And that's what it's all about! _________________ 1973 1303 with AB-motor - sporadic
reconstruction as time permits, 1986 ex-Bundeswehr Doka - on the road again.
I'm definitely, probably, the worlds greatest lover.
Aithníonn ciaróg ciaróg eile. |
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sb001 Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011 Posts: 10406 Location: NW Arkansas
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Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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My other car is a Kia 6 speed manual, I learned to drive stick on Hondas and loved the way the engine/tranny slowed the car when downshifting in those, it did wonders for driving those twisty Ozark highways and was loads of fun. But in this Kia even if you downshift from say 5th to 3rd it hardly slows the car down at all and I always end up having to hit the brakes anyway- not sure how it was engineered but it drives me up the wall it's almost like something counteracts the downshifting "grab." _________________ I'm the humblest guy on this board.
1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor |
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