| Author |
Message |
Wasted youth
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2012
Posts: 5134
Location: California's Hot and Smoggy Central Valley
|
 Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 6:19 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
EDITED for content.
Well, I wasn't trying to prove anything. I was simply illustrating that mine fit, with more than 2" left in travel. Maybe I misunderstood your original post/complaint. All I can tell you, is that the shocks you mention (same as mine) don't fit or seem to be incorrect for your bus, but mine fit fine. Did you really get the shocks you ordered, or did somebody send you a different model?
Maybe the 2 inches left in designed travel when finished is insufficient? With your thoughts in mind, maybe I have the incorrect shocks... maybe I should have 4 or 5 inches left, instead of 2 inches? At this point, they seem fine. I hope I am not driving in conditions that allow my torsion bar to hit the bottom stop, as that sounds like imminent impact damage to me. Having the shocks work at that extreme seems pointless...wouldn't the trailing arm bumping on the stop be more of an issue?
I installed them with the bus jacked up while I was doing the brakes, but never looked at where the torsion bar was. I can't recall having any problems doing the install. It seems irrelevant to consider them a poor fit-up because they don't seem to fit with the torsion bar dangling and the wheel hub all the way down. Of course they won't be a perfect fit at that angle. That's not the ride height. Does that matter? I don't know, but it seems reasonable to me.
They seem to be designed different that what you expected or are comparing with another manufacturer. Maybe they have a shorter travel than the ones you are used to. Send them back, then.
I would bet that if you lowered your bus back to the ground, and reached in there to install them, you would have no problem. Again, I installed mine with the bus jacked up to do the brakes. My jack stands were placed on the body jack pads, not the torsion bar or anywhere on the rear wheel assembly. Regardless, I hope you work it all out, as I really like the ride mine give me. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Joey
Samba Member
Joined: August 12, 2005
Posts: 5366
Location: Nova Scotia - Canada
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 6:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Wasted youth/adulthood wrote: |
Well, I wasn't trying to prove anything.  Maybe I misunderstood your original post/complaint. All I can tell you, is that the shocks you mention (same as mine) don't fit or seem to be incorrect for your bus, but mine fit fine. Did you really get the shocks you ordered, or did somebody send you a different model? |
Sorry if my last post rubbed you the wrong way. I didn't mean it to. I just didn't understand what you were describing.
| Wasted youth/adulthood wrote: |
| I would bet that if you lowered your bus back to the ground, and reached in there to install them, you would have no problem. |
Correct - I can. BUT, I shouldn't have to. With the bus jacked up I should be able to install the shock without compressing the rear suspension. With a gas shock I should have to compress it to get the mounting holes to line up.
| Wasted youth/adulthood wrote: |
| It seems irrelevant to consider them a poor fit-up because they don't seem to fit with the torsion bar dangling and the wheel hub all the way down. Of course they won't be a perfect fit at that angle. That's not the ride height. |
That's the problem, they should fit with the suspension in this position.
The shocks I have are the KG5530s - says so right on the bottom of the shock. They are the same as yours. I got them from CIP.
_________________
Joey
‘60 Kombi - '74 Bus - '79 Panel - '65 Beetle |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Wasted youth
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2012
Posts: 5134
Location: California's Hot and Smoggy Central Valley
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 6:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
EDITED...
OK, so maybe I have the wrong shocks.  I think I have a more clear idea of what you are trying to convey. (I edited my last post)...maybe these shocks are too short for our busses after all? So far, I will run with mine if only because the ride is good, even in headwinds and passing trucks at 70 MPH. For what it's worth, the shocks I removed from the 1973 bus were green in color, had a narrower body and were longer overall...and I think they were the originals! 
The shocks I removed from the 1977 bus were aftermarket, air lift style and were trashed.
The more I think about this, I think that you may be correct in that these shocks are too short, although they can fit. I wonder if KYB used a "one size fits all" approach to the design, or if the shorter length is somehow compensated by the action of the internal design? Did you have any issue with the front shocks? Interesting how it's a different shock front to rear, yet the travel length seems incorrect for the rear, based on your thoughts. WTF?
What about other brands? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Joey
Samba Member
Joined: August 12, 2005
Posts: 5366
Location: Nova Scotia - Canada
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 7:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Like others have stated, they may be okay as long as you don't drive on bumpy roads or do crazy off road jumps. I'm gonna run mine with the extenders I made and see what happens.
The fact that KYB says they fit '68 - '79 proves that they are a "one size fits all" since the rear suspension travel distance increased in '72.
_________________
Joey
‘60 Kombi - '74 Bus - '79 Panel - '65 Beetle |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Wasted youth
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2012
Posts: 5134
Location: California's Hot and Smoggy Central Valley
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 7:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Joey wrote: |
Like others have stated, they may be okay as long as you don't drive on bumpy roads or do crazy off road jumps. I'm gonna run mine with the extenders I made and see what happens.
The fact that KYB says they fit '68 - '79 proves that they are a "one size fits all" since the rear suspension travel distance increased in '72. |
*sigh* Learn something new everyday, yah! Well, keep us posted on how the extenders work out.
This is a pretty good forum...  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bala
Samba Member
Joined: December 04, 2003
Posts: 2613
Location: Austin, TX
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:37 am Post subject: |
|
|
I just ordered the KYB 344082 shocks. Should be installing them next week. I'll report back!
Anyone know the longer bolt demensions for these?
_________________
1976 Westy
1966 Beetle |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Joey
Samba Member
Joined: August 12, 2005
Posts: 5366
Location: Nova Scotia - Canada
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 11:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Bala wrote: |
I just ordered the KYB 344082 shocks. Should be installing them next week. I'll report back!
Anyone know the longer bolt demensions for these? |
The KYB site says the bushings in the 344082s are 12 x 42, which means the bushing is 42mm wide. The KG5520s are 32mm wide so you'll need bolts that are at least 10mm longer. I believe you'll want class 10.9 fasteners.
I installed some KYB KG4521 shocks on the front of the bus today and had zero problems. Both the old and new shocks were about an inch or so longer than the extended suspension measurement as they should be.
_________________
Joey
‘60 Kombi - '74 Bus - '79 Panel - '65 Beetle |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bala
Samba Member
Joined: December 04, 2003
Posts: 2613
Location: Austin, TX
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 1:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Joey wrote: |
| Bala wrote: |
I just ordered the KYB 344082 shocks. Should be installing them next week. I'll report back!
Anyone know the longer bolt demensions for these? |
The KYB site says the bushings in the 344082s are 12 x 42, which means the bushing is 42mm wide. The KG5520s are 32mm wide so you'll need bolts that are at least 10mm longer. I believe you'll want class 10.9 fasteners. |
Thanks! Not sure what class 10.9 is, but I’m guessing that equivalent to Grade 8 here in the states?
I may just wait for the shocks to come in and take them with me, along with the supplied hardware, so I can insure I get the correct replacements.
_________________
1976 Westy
1966 Beetle |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Joey
Samba Member
Joined: August 12, 2005
Posts: 5366
Location: Nova Scotia - Canada
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 2:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Class 10.9 (metric) is equivalent to grade 8 (SAE).
_________________
Joey
‘60 Kombi - '74 Bus - '79 Panel - '65 Beetle |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
airschooled
Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012
Posts: 12727
Location: on a bike ride somewhere
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 8:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
How are you going to keep your spacers from rotating as different forces are applied to them????
_________________
Learn how your vintage VW works. And why it doesn't!
One-on-one tech help for your Volkswagen:
www.airschooled.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
WestyPop
Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2005
Posts: 1732
Location: SoCal
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 12:26 am Post subject: |
|
|
Didn't see a Koni North America listing for late bays, but if ya' gotta have German, there's always the Bilstein 4600 Series Rear Shock Absorber - Part Number: 24-010474 (listed for the aforementioned Chevy AstroVans). Price: ???
_________________
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
______________________________________
J.R.
68 Westy
(+ others) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Joey
Samba Member
Joined: August 12, 2005
Posts: 5366
Location: Nova Scotia - Canada
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 4:44 am Post subject: |
|
|
| asiab3 wrote: |
| How are you going to keep your spacers from rotating as different forces are applied to them???? |
How will they rotate with the mounting bolts 90 degrees from each other? If the bolts were parallel then they would rotate. Shock extenders have been around forever. They're a standard item in lift kits for trucks, Jeeps, etc.
_________________
Joey
‘60 Kombi - '74 Bus - '79 Panel - '65 Beetle |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Amskeptic
Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2002
Posts: 8568
Location: All Across The Country
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 8:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
Just a note:
The wheel bearing housing can be rotated on the spring plate when the four Big Bolts are loose. Depending on your toe and caster requirements, you can have a wheel bearing housing that is "rotated" forward enough that the short shocks just about almost work on the later suspensions. In other instances, the shock mounting is a mile away from the short shocks. Either way, get the correct shock travel for your car.
Colin
_________________
www.itinerant-air-cooled.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kirk
Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2003
Posts: 5487
Location: North Texas
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 8:31 am Post subject: |
|
|
Someone clarify the "Chevy" shock usage I keep reading about. Whats the deal there?
_________________
MAKE FORUMS GREAT AGAIN
Bear
Coble
Super
Oppenheim |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
airschooled
Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012
Posts: 12727
Location: on a bike ride somewhere
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 8:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Joey wrote: |
| asiab3 wrote: |
| How are you going to keep your spacers from rotating as different forces are applied to them???? |
How will they rotate with the mounting bolts 90 degrees from each other? If the bolts were parallel then they would rotate. Shock extenders have been around forever. They're a standard item in lift kits for trucks, Jeeps, etc. |
Ok I see what you mean. I didn't look at the picture close enough before asking that. 
_________________
Learn how your vintage VW works. And why it doesn't!
One-on-one tech help for your Volkswagen:
www.airschooled.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Joey
Samba Member
Joined: August 12, 2005
Posts: 5366
Location: Nova Scotia - Canada
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 11:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Amskeptic wrote: |
Just a note:
The wheel bearing housing can be rotated on the spring plate when the four Big Bolts are loose. Depending on your toe and caster requirements, you can have a wheel bearing housing that is "rotated" forward enough that the short shocks just about almost work on the later suspensions. In other instances, the shock mounting is a mile away from the short shocks. Either way, get the correct shock travel for your car.
Colin |
I thought about rotating the wheel bearing housing. But, I currently have no problems with rear tire wear or the way it handles so I think I'll leave things be.
| Kirk wrote: |
| Someone clarify the "Chevy" shock usage I keep reading about. Whats the deal there? |
They are not Chevy shocks. It just happens that one of the KYB 344082s applications is for a Chevy Astro van. I'm sure the KG5530s are not just for the EARLY type 2s - they probably fit other makes of vehicles too.
_________________
Joey
‘60 Kombi - '74 Bus - '79 Panel - '65 Beetle |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kirk
Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2003
Posts: 5487
Location: North Texas
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 11:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
So the 344082 is the correct length rear shock for a late bay then?
_________________
MAKE FORUMS GREAT AGAIN
Bear
Coble
Super
Oppenheim |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Joey
Samba Member
Joined: August 12, 2005
Posts: 5366
Location: Nova Scotia - Canada
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 11:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
The OE shock that originally came on a '72-'79 type 2 is 22.95" fully extended.
The KG5530 (Gas-s-Just) is 22.2" fully extended.
The 344082 (Excel-G) is 23.03" fully extended.
_________________
Joey
‘60 Kombi - '74 Bus - '79 Panel - '65 Beetle |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Wasted youth
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2012
Posts: 5134
Location: California's Hot and Smoggy Central Valley
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 2:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Joey wrote: |
The OE shock that originally came on a '72-'79 type 2 is 22.95" fully extended.
The KG5530 (Gas-s-Just) is 22.2" fully extended.
The 344082 (Excel-G) is 23.03" fully extended. |
Well, then does .75" make a significant difference? Just curious, not trying to be adamant. Will the Excel-G style be better for "off-road" applications? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kirk
Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2003
Posts: 5487
Location: North Texas
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 2:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Joey wrote: |
The OE shock that originally came on a '72-'79 type 2 is 22.95" fully extended.
The KG5530 (Gas-s-Just) is 22.2" fully extended.
The 344082 (Excel-G) is 23.03" fully extended. |
Good info to have. Thanks!
_________________
MAKE FORUMS GREAT AGAIN
Bear
Coble
Super
Oppenheim |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
