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73 Thing Brakes overhaul
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7T3Thing
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 12:13 pm    Post subject: 73 Thing Brakes overhaul Reply with quote

Working to get my son's Thing back on the road. Been sitting for a while.
Looking to replace the master cylinder, brake lines, wheel cylinders, springs and pads.
As far as new components, is any one vendor better than another, or is the quality equal?
Suggestions, tips and cautions are always welcome, I'm new to the VW arena.

Thanks,
Dave
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JayC
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 6:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just my two cents worth...

I sourced everything but the drums through the thing shop. The drums I picked up at a local VW store. I was confident that the thing shop sold very good (but more expensive) parts that I knew would fit. The drums, I made sure they were the German ones rather than the Brazilian.

That being said, I think the springs and pistons can be gotten pretty much anywhere. I would only really worry about the shoes (size) and drums for quality differences.

jay
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shum
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the last few months I have purchased a new top, glass windows, axles, etc.... from the Thing Shop and every transaction was satisfying, nice folks, excellent service and quality.
I would also say the same for AirCooled.net. Very professional.
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7T3Thing
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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I'm set to start this, less the brake lines and wonder what makes the most sense.
Wheel cylinders and brakes first and master cylinder last or MC first then WC & brakes.
I know I need to bleed once done, and hope to do everything in one day, but it could span two days.
Also, weigh in on the 'bench bleed the MC" or not. I've seen a few threads and it seems most don't bench bleed it.
I do realize the adjustment of the 'stars' is key before bleeding the WC.
Oh yeah, does the speedometer cable attached to the front brakes or is that a different model? I ran across that in the interwebs, too.
Thanks,
Dave
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Riffster
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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A question I can answer!

Speedo cable goes through the front left wheel spindle. You'll have to remove the special cap it pokes through to get at the wheel nut (to take off the wheel to get at the brakes). That's it's only connection to the brakes.

As for the rest, I don't know that it makes much difference in which order you replace the cylinders. Except that it's probably easier to get at the hoses/lines with the tires off.

-Larry
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shum
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PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2014 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave,
This is how I would approach this... and I hope in the process it helps you clarify a course of action that works for you.
I view the brakes as a system and if as in your case the car has sat for some time, I would want to address the whole system. I would start at the master cylinder reservoir (the start of the system) and remove it, remove the master cylinder, pull all the drums, brake shoes, and wheel cylinders. You said you are not replacing the lines, but what about the hoses? I would as a general rule on a car this old do the hoses too. Now you are left with just the lines in place.
Back to the start...reinstall the clean reservoir, install the M/C, replace the blue rubber hoses from the reservoir to the M/C with new ones. Onto the rubber hoses and the wheel cylinders. Hydraulics are all in, fells good at this point. Now the shoes and probably new brake springs. Im a bit fanatical about the adjusters... take them apart and kleen the bores that the bronze adjusting stars slip into along with the threaded parts. Once clean apply a very thin coat of grease to threads and the bores, now your breaks will be very easy to adjust until you need to replace the shoes years from now.
This is of course the time to repack the wheel bearings.
If you want to make this job super easy, at least the master cylinder part, pull the gas tank. With the tank out the M/C is fully exposed and you could replace the fuel tank screen and hose while it is out. Have you looked in the tank? Maybe it needs to come out anyway and if so now is the time.
OK, you probably have had enough of how I work. Im a product of my training, what can I say? "Project scope creep," the project just keeps growing and growing.
oh yeah, if you want to break this into smaller parts as you asked, start at the front and work back. Reservoir/M/C first, front wheel cylinders, and then rears. I always bleed M/C once installed.
Good luck, Steve
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7T3Thing
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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2014 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any truth to the LH threads on one side of the Thing and RH threads on the other?
Read that somewhere.

Shum - Thanks for your post, I was going to replace the fuel parts under the tank, based on what I've read.

Dave
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citroen
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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2014 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

7T3Thing wrote:
Any truth to the LH threads on one side of the Thing and RH threads on the other?
Read that somewhere. NO same on both sides standard thread

Shum - Thanks for your post, I was going to replace the fuel parts under the tank, based on what I've read.

Dave
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7T3Thing
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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 5:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

got through the fronts, the drivers side spindle nut was indeed LH threads. It had a little L stamped on it, as well.
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citroen
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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sorry I though you were talking about the lug nuts the spindle nuts are right and left threads my mistake
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7T3Thing
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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No problem, the L presented itself, so I proceeded slowly.
I guess the lug studs could have been LH, but they loosened easily.
I recall a friend's '70 Dodge pickup had LH/RH lug nuts on opposite sides.
Thanks,
Dave
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7T3Thing
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, new everything, from master cylinder out - wheel cylinders, springs, shoes, lines, hoses, reservoir and feed lines. What a blast that work is...
Adjusted the shoes per what I've seen - turn adjuster until feel rub, and back off. All four, adjusted e-brake. Bled from the pass rear to driver rear to pass front then driver front.
First attempt to roll, no brakes. turns out I had two loose connections pass rear lines. tighten, re-bleed backs everything seems ok on the roll test.
My pedal man - my older son - says they feel soft. Don't know if the shoes should be in a little more or I have another leak.
Open to thoughts.
hoping to roll tomorrow, son wanted to hit a Father's day car show with his brother's Javelin.
Thanks,
Dave
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citroen
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Has you son drove a car without power brakes before this is 40 year old technology.
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7T3Thing
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 4:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

citroen wrote:
Has you son drove a car without power brakes before this is 40 year old technology.

Certainly, his 1968 Javelin has manual brakes. We did a complete overhaul of that when we got it, as well.

Dave
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7T3Thing
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 4:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The question is how much drag should be present after adjusting the 'stars'?
I see varying accounts.
Thanks,
Dave
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7T3Thing
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK - I think I see where I went wrong.
Without having ever cycled the brake shoes (no fluid in system), the mechanical adjustment of the shoes wasn't quite valid.
I'm going to re adjust these suckers, all the way around, and possibly re-bleed the front.
if that doesn't do it, I'll get a longer E-brake handle...

Thanks,
Dave
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7T3Thing
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Been a few weeks away form this project. Back to it.
Started at DS rear, figuring I would get the ebrake fixed at the same time.
Adjusted the stars to no drag, back one click from drag, on each shoe. Son stepped on pedal, nothing. Took everything off, tried pedal with no drum on, no movement on wheel cylinder. Drum back on, bleed again, a few bubbles, then solid fluid. Drum on, no brakes. Bled PS rear, looked for leaks. Back to DS, no brakes. Adjust the stars again, now.. when the pedal is depressed, drum will stop. With some force (breaker bar on axle nut) it will slip. More backward than forward.

Do I need a little drag on the drums? Air still in system? Some other mystery to these brakes? Should I have turned the drums? They seem to have a lip at the backer plate edge - if you know what I mean.

Thanks for any help.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

as I have said many times make sure you have the adjusters on the brake shoes correct you can have 1 wrong and you will have a low pedal
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 5:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I adjust the stars to produce a lot of drag, almost locked down. Then bleed the brakes. Once bled, then back off the stars. I'm not sure that's the "proper" way, but it works for me.
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7T3Thing
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 6:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Citroen - I pretty sure they are right. I had one backwards and couldn't get the drum on.

Mkparker - interesting technique - why do you think that works? More backforce on the wheel cylinder?

Should there be any drag at all? or just a little? I mean I didn't turn the drums, so the brakes need to find their 'home', right?

Thanks.
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