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David Carter's Electric Ghia Project
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dcat917
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 4:23 pm    Post subject: David Carter's Electric Ghia Project Reply with quote

Hello to All,

I'm starting on an electric ghia project. Anyone else out there done any electrics? If all goes well, I should be the owner of a recently restored later model and will be going with an EV West conversion kit.

David Carter
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Loren Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here are two good links that should provide some inspiration:

This one is Ghia specific:
http://karmanneclectric.blogspot.com/


This is a split window bus, but very informative:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=539140
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carl4x4
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

These guys have an Orange one with quite a few Youtube videos on various how-to topics

http://www.youtube.com/user/ev4ucustomconversion
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lot's of topics on the subject over the years but strangely they rarely get past the second page...I wonder why? Confused

Here's a discussion from a couple of years ago...a search will throw up more: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=502816
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DorianL
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 1:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hang in there! I'd like to see this done… (I might give it a whack on a next car Cool )
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Kmolenda
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I saw a guy in Mn, that used a Ghia pan and tranny, (had a really cool glass kit body on it), but he used Raymond Forklift 24 volt drive motor., Curtis controllers , A flywheel machined, a steer motor from a Raymond Order picker running a AC compressor, and enough 6volt golf cart batteries to give her some weight. Long story short, it was always in second gear, had reverse, topped out at 65 mph, and would run at top speed for about an hour, longer if speed was varied. I have pics of it somewhere, he did a great job. Being I work on Raymond Lifts for a living, I took quit an interest in it. Not to difficult to do, he said he had about 10k into it, was putting some Lithium ion batts in her to triple the efficiency.
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dcat917
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PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2014 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the feedback you all. I have the car and have spent the last week checking it out. I will have to replace the rear floor pans first it seems. The prior owner did a lets screw a patch plate over it and covered it with carpet.

The problem is the exterior is in passable shape for a daily driver and I don't want t take the body off the frame, so I'm going to try and replace the floor pans with the body on. Has anyone done this before?

For the conversion, I'll be going with something from EVTv or EVWest check this out http://www.evwest.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=40&products_id=220
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kman
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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would go ahead and take the body off to replace the floor pans. I think you will actually save time if you do it this way.

Anyway, I will be very interested in your EV conversion and its performance. Are you going to spring for lithium batteries?

I have a non VW I would like to convert someday, especially if the battery prices come down.
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dcat917
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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will put the batteries in last. I ordered my AC-51 motor last night and it should be here in 2 weeks. http://store.evtv.me/proddetail.php?prod=AC50Kit

I will go with these batteries http://store.evtv.me/proddetail.php?prod=ca100fi

Just finished up the floor pan and cab and the car is out to be acid treated followed by POR-15 spray treatment
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kman
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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dcat917 wrote:
I will put the batteries in last. I ordered my AC-51 motor last night and it should be here in 2 weeks. http://store.evtv.me/proddetail.php?prod=AC50Kit

I will go with these batteries http://store.evtv.me/proddetail.php?prod=ca100fi

Just finished up the floor pan and cab and the car is out to be acid treated followed by POR-15 spray treatment


That is a really good price on those batteries. How many do you think you will need? 20-30. What is your expected max speed and range?
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dcat917
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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shooting for a 144 volt traction pack or about 42 cells, should give me 60 miles around town and support freeway speeds. Not going to be a cheap project but I should learn lots of new tricks on this one.
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Kmolenda
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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That looks like a pretty good setup, you might want to check with an electric forklift dealer. They have lifts that run Curtis controllers and much bigger motors. You could probably get the whole setup of a truck that they are going to scrap fairly cheap. May not be the newest technology, but it would give you an idea of what you would be getting into. The AC motors are super torquey , the Curtis is pretty programmable, the pre charge circuit is fairly easy to rig up. You could do any initial testing with a few golf cart batteries to get to your 24/36 volt combo, then maybe do a regen system with a couple alternators run off a small motor. Just seems like a lot of money to blow on new stuff. Cool project all the way around.
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oceanair
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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This guy did it and kept the original tranny --
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1638466
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DorianL
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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
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kman
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PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 4:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oceanair wrote:
This guy did it and kept the original tranny --
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1638466


Lead sled.
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KGCoupe
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PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 5:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dcat917 wrote:
Shooting for a 144 volt traction pack or about 42 cells, should give me 60 miles around town and support freeway speeds. Not going to be a cheap project but I should learn lots of new tricks on this one.

Miscellaneous ramblings about electric vehicles:

Let's see, 42 batteries @ $139 each is $5,838 (not including any taxes or delivery charges).
Today, $5,838 would buy you around 1,536 gallons of regular unleaded gasoline in my neighborhood.
If you assume that a Karmann Ghia is rated at an average fuel economy of roughly 25 mpg, 1,536 gallons of gas should allow you to travel just over 38,000 miles with the standard gasoline drivetrain.

What does all of that mean?
Darned if I know, but that's how I've been brought up to think about cars - automobile = gasoline power.

While I realize that the concept of an electric car goes back to the very beginnings of the automobile itself - and that Dr. Ferdinand Porsche himself dabbled with electric cars very early in his career - I just don't associate cars with electricity.

All in all, though, I have to admit that it does sound like a very interesting project.
The one thing I do know about electric vehicles is that they can go from zero to full torque nearly instantaneously, so the possibilities for high performance are definitely there.
The new Porsche Hybrid 918 Spyder is setting the automotive world on its ear with mind blowing performance.

While I've seen quite a few VWs converted to a straight electric drivetrain, I've never heard of anyone trying to convert to a hybrid drivetrain.
Is that a project that would just be too complicated to attempt in a home garage for a person with average mechanical ability?
... or is the notion of a hybrid vintage VW simply not appealing enough to even consider?
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dcat917
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PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 8:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree that it would be cheaper to go with an Internal Combustion Engine (ICE) solution but this is about NO MAINTENANCE and low end torque for me. I'm also a retired computer software engineer and need a mental challenge to stay sharp.

Funny you should mention hybrid. With what I learn about this project, I hope to construct a small tear drop trailer that would carry a generator to supplement the traction pack for extended range capabilities, but that is a project for another day.
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kman
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PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lithium batteries have the potential to travel 150,000 to 300,000 miles and still have 80% of their charging capacity after, if treated properly. Charging costs are almost always 1/4 of the price of equivalent costs to buy gasoline. Plus, their wieght is far less than lead batteries. They have great potential to pay for themselves. Meanwhile you have a much less complicated vehicle to maintain. Not that a VW engine is complicated.

Anyway, I hope the OP continues to post with pictures.
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DorianL
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PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dcat917 wrote:
I agree that it would be cheaper to go with an Internal Combustion Engine (ICE) solution but this is about NO MAINTENANCE and low end torque for me. I'm also a retired computer software engineer and need a mental challenge to stay sharp.

Funny you should mention hybrid. With what I learn about this project, I hope to construct a small tear drop trailer that would carry a generator to supplement the traction pack for extended range capabilities, but that is a project for another day.


Keep going! This one fascinates me. I'd consider it as well. I like the sound of a flat four… but there is this video on youtube of a guy testing an electric KG. It looks VERY pleasant to drive. And QUIET!

PICS!!!!! Always pics!
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retrowagen
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PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How much will your proposed 42 battery cells weigh?

EDIT: I clicked on his battery spec link. 42 of them will weigh 315 pounds for the cells alone, minus wiring, boxes, chassis, or other assemblies to store them safely in the chassis.

It would be an interesting study to compare weights and mass distribution for the proposed DC setup, and the stock internal combustion setup (including a full tank of petrol). Depending on the weight and where it's located in the car, the vehicle's handling and/or braking could either be improved upon, or made rather worse.
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