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Mikedrevguy Samba Member
Joined: October 15, 2008 Posts: 2240 Location: Medford, OR
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Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 4:50 pm Post subject: 1976 914 2.0- |
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Pictures will follow:
this is (will be) my wife's car, and is she excited.
Motor rebuilt, reportedly, a decade ago, and then sat.
Interior decent,
Brakes rusted but broke free- can disks be turned? Or are we in for new?
Did 76 come with a DVAD?
Will go through the brake system, clean out the fuel tank and run new lines, drain oil, new plugs, squirt some oil down the plug holes and see if it can turn over by hand - all before hooking up battery and attempting to turn over.
And then comes the body work- nothing terrible but paint is very oxidized and a bit of bonds repair that's cracked.
More later along with pics. _________________ 74 1303 (RevBug): plan for German Look
76 914 with 2260
79 VW Iltis
69 Bwajaja
"The wise speak because they have something to say; while the foolish speak because they have to say something." Plato
Illigitimi non-Carborundum!! |
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Mikedrevguy Samba Member
Joined: October 15, 2008 Posts: 2240 Location: Medford, OR
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Posted: Tue May 13, 2014 7:41 am Post subject: |
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Big accomplishments: car is in garage up on blocks. (Told Shawn this was my motivation to get car done- so I can have my parking spot back-
Plugs out, wd40 down the holes- sat for couple if days. Spun mostly freely this am. Never locked up, which I suppose is a good thing. But went around 360. Took distributor cap off to verify- wouldn't you know it, the insides of distributor, look almost brand new. A few scratches on the plug terminals from the rotor, but otherwise. . . . Looks to have been test run (driven around block) and then garaged.
Plan to go through brake
Fuel system
Replace all the hoses-
Battery/electrical
Drain oil and trans fluid
Fill oil and trans fluid (that too is important;)
Then we'll do tires and drive that bad boy.
Then we will take care of the bodywork and paint.( and whatever else crops up) _________________ 74 1303 (RevBug): plan for German Look
76 914 with 2260
79 VW Iltis
69 Bwajaja
"The wise speak because they have something to say; while the foolish speak because they have to say something." Plato
Illigitimi non-Carborundum!! |
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Mikedrevguy Samba Member
Joined: October 15, 2008 Posts: 2240 Location: Medford, OR
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Posted: Sat May 17, 2014 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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In looking for parts, what crossover is there between years (specifically the 76 and, say, a 71) with things hoods, top, brake system? _________________ 74 1303 (RevBug): plan for German Look
76 914 with 2260
79 VW Iltis
69 Bwajaja
"The wise speak because they have something to say; while the foolish speak because they have to say something." Plato
Illigitimi non-Carborundum!! |
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Mikedrevguy Samba Member
Joined: October 15, 2008 Posts: 2240 Location: Medford, OR
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Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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verified that there is fuel getting through system:
pulled off cold-start fuel line, cranked and plenty of fuel came through.
have fire: verified with starting fluid.
have fuel: as verified above.
fuel simply not making it through the injectors.
Thoughts?
thanks in advance for you assistance.
Mike _________________ 74 1303 (RevBug): plan for German Look
76 914 with 2260
79 VW Iltis
69 Bwajaja
"The wise speak because they have something to say; while the foolish speak because they have to say something." Plato
Illigitimi non-Carborundum!! |
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Bleyseng Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2005 Posts: 4752 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:29 am Post subject: |
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What's DVAD?
Most of the 914 parts interchange except the Djet stuff. 70-71 cars have some interior parts that don't fit the later cars.
I would pull a injector and place it in a plastic jar. Then pull the coil wire so there is no spark. Turn the engine over 5-8 times and check to see if the injector is passing fuel. If not check the trigger points in the dizzy. Does the fuel pump run for 2-4 secs when you first turn the key on. (this pressurizes the fuel rails)
Have you changed the fuel filter? Its located behind a little access panel in the front trunk.
Have you changed ALL the fuel lines? The new gas eats the old type of fuel line so install the new style High pressure Fuel injection rubber reinforced line or you will have gas spraying all over the engine (30psi!). The hose at the injectors is the first place to leak due to the bend in the hose.
I have owned my 76 914 for nearly 20 years. _________________ 70 Ghia Black convert-9/69 build date-stock w/133k 1600 SP-barn find now with a rebuilt tranny and engine
77 Westy 2.0L w/Ljet, Camper Special engine-95hp and with LSD!(sold)
76 Porsche 914 2.1L L20c, 120hp Djet (sold)
87 Syncro Westy Titan Red 2.1L 2 knob 100k miles |
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Mikedrevguy Samba Member
Joined: October 15, 2008 Posts: 2240 Location: Medford, OR
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Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:16 am Post subject: |
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Dual vacuum adavance distributor.
Fuel lines are cleaned out through tunnel. New line from tank to tunnel, and from tunnel throughout the engine bay.
Fuel is getting through the system.
I have spark at the heads- car will run on starter fluid sprayed into throttle body.
There is no fuel spray out of any of the injectors.
There is no electrical pulse at any of the injectors.
I've pulled the relays from the relay board apart and cleaned the points and need to reassemble them.
Injectors are sitting in diesel as we speak to then be rinsed off and reassembled. Along with the better functioning relays, we'll see what affect that might have on providing electrical signal to the injectors.
If nothing, am I left with a diagnosis if a bad ECU? _________________ 74 1303 (RevBug): plan for German Look
76 914 with 2260
79 VW Iltis
69 Bwajaja
"The wise speak because they have something to say; while the foolish speak because they have to say something." Plato
Illigitimi non-Carborundum!! |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21520 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:13 am Post subject: |
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This should be D-jet injected. Barring any more obvious wiring disconnections or breaks, the main two things that will cause a non injection situation at all 4 injectors or of one pair or another (this is paired injection so 1&3 and 2&4 are paired to cire together).....are either poor injector ground wire bundles......which are connected to the engine case on the centerline under the the intake plenum.
The other main thing is corroded or dirty FI trigger points in the bottom of the distributor....or even more commonly....the three wire plug that connects to them.
Ray |
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Mikedrevguy Samba Member
Joined: October 15, 2008 Posts: 2240 Location: Medford, OR
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Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:49 am Post subject: |
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I've checked continuity between all the grounds and the injector plugs.
cleaned the ground bundle.
I've checked continuity of ground between injector plug and the case, between injector plug and the 3wire plug into the distributor. (center is the ground wire?)
should I be able to get continuity between the two outer wires (of the 3wire distributor plug) and the injector plug? _________________ 74 1303 (RevBug): plan for German Look
76 914 with 2260
79 VW Iltis
69 Bwajaja
"The wise speak because they have something to say; while the foolish speak because they have to say something." Plato
Illigitimi non-Carborundum!! |
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AircooledGraphics Samba Member
Joined: December 11, 2010 Posts: 2 Location: east TN
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Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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You will get much quicker troubleshooting response over on 914world.com |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21520 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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Just checking the wire continuity does nothing to check the triggers themselves. I have about 5000 posts that are D-jet specific over on the STF....and about 35 years of experience on primarily D-jet...so I know what im doing.
You need to turn the engine by hand while alternately checking continuity between the left pin and center pin then right pin and center pin. Make sure they are actively working. If one side works and the other does not.....neither side will work because its a collapsing circiit in the ecu. The finish of one channel cycle arms the other channel. Make sure your head temp sensor wire is connected and make sure your throttle valve switch plug is plugged in. In some systems of certain years the tvs completes a ground loop.
Make sure the efi system is getting 12 volts at the relay.
A very quick test to see if the system at least has complete connectivity to run with is to switch on the key and open the throttle all the way by hand. The injectors should trip about 8-9 times per pair. If opening the throttle does not trigger short injections in this way....something is loose. Ray |
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Mikedrevguy Samba Member
Joined: October 15, 2008 Posts: 2240 Location: Medford, OR
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Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 7:48 am Post subject: |
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STF.?
That's for the direction, Ray. I'll check thse out this week and and get back with that I find (or mess up)
AG, I've been posting over on 914world, but I must be doing something wrong as I can get no one of late to answer any questions. I'm sure it's a simple fix, just like with the issues I'm dealing with on the 914 _________________ 74 1303 (RevBug): plan for German Look
76 914 with 2260
79 VW Iltis
69 Bwajaja
"The wise speak because they have something to say; while the foolish speak because they have to say something." Plato
Illigitimi non-Carborundum!! |
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Bleyseng Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2005 Posts: 4752 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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I check this forum maybe once a month....
914World has lots of guys to help even in your area of Medford. Damn, I was there a month ago.
ECU's rarely fail....
Do as Ray says as it sounds like the trigger points aren't working maybe a bad FI wiring harness? Usually its the FI injector grounds that are the problem but look at ALL the grounds so you have good electrical contacts. Battery strap, tranny strap, FI injector grounds etc.... _________________ 70 Ghia Black convert-9/69 build date-stock w/133k 1600 SP-barn find now with a rebuilt tranny and engine
77 Westy 2.0L w/Ljet, Camper Special engine-95hp and with LSD!(sold)
76 Porsche 914 2.1L L20c, 120hp Djet (sold)
87 Syncro Westy Titan Red 2.1L 2 knob 100k miles |
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Mikedrevguy Samba Member
Joined: October 15, 2008 Posts: 2240 Location: Medford, OR
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Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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Firing on all cylinders. Turns out, the fuel pump was no good (or not very good)
Got a new Bosch, plugged it in.
That and discovered that the MPS does have to be plugged in to the harness for the injectors to fire. When I went to test the 3/4 side, all was attached and worked. Then to access the 1/2 injectors, I disconnected the MPS and the injectors would not squirt.
Then, today, went back to the 3/4 side and they would not squirt. Process of elimination and best guesstimate, led me to plug in the MPS and low and behold, they squirt on all 4. Re-installed all 4 injectors and it fired on first tme.
Now, with all hoses air cleaner, reattached and connected, it's got a huge stumble when depressing the throttle.
Thoughts? Hints? Direction to look? Thanks in advance.
Rev. _________________ 74 1303 (RevBug): plan for German Look
76 914 with 2260
79 VW Iltis
69 Bwajaja
"The wise speak because they have something to say; while the foolish speak because they have to say something." Plato
Illigitimi non-Carborundum!! |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21520 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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You need to check fuel pressure. Since D-jet is fixed pressure it must, be relatively exact. If it had an old pump that was putting out poor volume...the the PO may have jacked the pressure ip at the regulator. A new pump now make pressure too high.
Also you timing must be spot kn. If not. ..it changes the injection timing as well.
Valve adjustment must be spot on.
You can have "0" vacuum leaks or the MPS reads this as throttle movement and runs you rich.
Also adjust the TVS. Ray |
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Mikedrevguy Samba Member
Joined: October 15, 2008 Posts: 2240 Location: Medford, OR
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Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:38 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the response Ray.
Will check fuel pressure, valves, timing, and intake leaks.
What I discovered yesterday is that the vacuum adv is not advancing. Vacuum canister holds/has no vacuum and the plate didn't move. Going to address these issues as well.
Thanks again.
Rev. _________________ 74 1303 (RevBug): plan for German Look
76 914 with 2260
79 VW Iltis
69 Bwajaja
"The wise speak because they have something to say; while the foolish speak because they have to say something." Plato
Illigitimi non-Carborundum!! |
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Mikedrevguy Samba Member
Joined: October 15, 2008 Posts: 2240 Location: Medford, OR
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Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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Distributor that's in the car is a Bosch 039 905 205A
It's got both advance and retard vacuum ports, though there was no line hooked up to the vacuum advanced port. Should ther be? If so, where should it connect? _________________ 74 1303 (RevBug): plan for German Look
76 914 with 2260
79 VW Iltis
69 Bwajaja
"The wise speak because they have something to say; while the foolish speak because they have to say something." Plato
Illigitimi non-Carborundum!! |
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Bleyseng Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2005 Posts: 4752 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 8:13 am Post subject: |
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No as looking at your pics you don't have a dual ported TB so just hook up the retard line. _________________ 70 Ghia Black convert-9/69 build date-stock w/133k 1600 SP-barn find now with a rebuilt tranny and engine
77 Westy 2.0L w/Ljet, Camper Special engine-95hp and with LSD!(sold)
76 Porsche 914 2.1L L20c, 120hp Djet (sold)
87 Syncro Westy Titan Red 2.1L 2 knob 100k miles |
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Mikedrevguy Samba Member
Joined: October 15, 2008 Posts: 2240 Location: Medford, OR
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Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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Okay, so took fuel pump back, as it was howling somethg fierce. Installed new one.
Set the fuel pressure to 30.
Timing set so that the colored bar in the fan is in the V at full advance. (Showing my technical lingo )
And now, the motor is nom linger stumbling/bogging just off idle. It revs nicely thought range.
Though, now, at start up the motor pulses. It gets better as the motor warms, but still there.
Thanks, chuck for letting me come over and look at the motor. Helped get vacuum Line connected courtly.
Now to run down the street and see how it does.
Rev. _________________ 74 1303 (RevBug): plan for German Look
76 914 with 2260
79 VW Iltis
69 Bwajaja
"The wise speak because they have something to say; while the foolish speak because they have to say something." Plato
Illigitimi non-Carborundum!! |
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Bleyseng Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2005 Posts: 4752 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 8:40 am Post subject: |
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The pulsing is called "Hunting" and the idle mix is either too lean or rich OR there is a vacuum leak. Once warm does it idle nicely? You adjust the idle via the screw on the ECU only when its really warmed up so the idle is steady. Then turn the screw one click at a time to see where it like it best. It will either rev up some or slow down so pick the best spot but make sure first all vacuum leaks are gone/fixed and the AAR is closed. _________________ 70 Ghia Black convert-9/69 build date-stock w/133k 1600 SP-barn find now with a rebuilt tranny and engine
77 Westy 2.0L w/Ljet, Camper Special engine-95hp and with LSD!(sold)
76 Porsche 914 2.1L L20c, 120hp Djet (sold)
87 Syncro Westy Titan Red 2.1L 2 knob 100k miles |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21520 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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Bleyseng is spot on.
When you get this off the ground....address all vacuum leaks...and get baseline tuning right.....if its still hunting, it will still be from lean/rich variations.....but will be from more subtle sources.
When you are warming up, there are several things aside rrom vacuum leaks and baseline tuning that add to the mixture.
I call these factors " subtle".....because when larger issues like fuel pressure stability, timing slop due to a worn distributor or vacuum leaks are in play....the small but consistent issues are just background noise.
Examples of these are items that from cold through warm up...and sometimes into running temps....these items are in constant flux and are changing. They are:
1. Poor firring or loose connectors inside of the injector, trigger points, IAT sensor, MPS or cht sensor plug housings...rattling and giving variable connection and resistance quality. Some of these clean up when they expand with heat. Some get worse.
2. The ground connections for the same reasons
3. The movement of the advance springs and weights and most especially the breaker plate smoothness of movement. I have written about how to clean and tighten these up before but will do so again if you need it....which you will.
4. Check that the CHT is in spec not just when stone cold or max hot....but is moving in a linear fashion. Some get screwy with age. You do this by clipping the ground lead of an ohmeter to ground close to the CHT and slipping the probe of the positive under the lip of the T-1 connector housing to contact the cht +wire. Start it and watch while its warming up. Ray |
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