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Vee Dub Nut
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Joined: April 25, 2004
Posts: 1184
Location: Dallas, GA
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 Posted: Wed May 27, 2015 5:31 am Post subject: |
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Your new motor is going to be a 2175, 78.4x94 right?
I'm new to the bay bus world, but is running 94's generally accepted? Seems like I've read a lot of folks saying 94's are too thin for a heavy (and potentially hot) bus application, and to stick with 92 thickwalls or 90.5's. Don't recall if that was here or in the performance engine section of the forum??
Not a dig, just asking. I feel like you have a lot of first hand experience with the stroker engine in bay bus combination, so I value your opinion. I recently picked up a 68 bay westy that currently has a 1600dp in it. It will do for now while I get all of the other normal maintenance things attended to since its been barely driven the past 15 years. That said, I've got everything but a crank on the shelf to build a real nice 2176 that was going to end up in my Beetle, but it may now may be built and diverted to the Westy as that will be the car we use the most often now. I was just concerned about running the 94's or looking for some smaller ones.
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airschooled
Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012
Posts: 12728
Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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| Posted: Wed May 27, 2015 6:30 am Post subject: |
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I'm tempted to try the CB performance "stock" pulley since it's heavier than the EMPI but still round and stock looking.
I thought cleaning and painting the engine compartment was quite cathartic. Cleaning being the most important part....
Robbie
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richparker
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2011
Posts: 6986
Location: Durango, CO
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| Posted: Wed May 27, 2015 7:07 am Post subject: |
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| asiab3 wrote: |
What does this mean for your California trip?
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I forgot to answer this. No SoCal trip now, I'm super bummed. My vacation is 7-11 thru 7/19 and I'm sure he's not gonna have it done by then or if he does he'll just be finishing it up. He has asked about my off road event so...hopefully I'll have it back by then. Even if he got it back to me on 7/1 I still don't think we'd come to Cali. The engine would still be fresh and I wouldn't want to take a trip like that until it was good and broken in. I'm missing several planned trips while the bus is down. Oh well, I still have the Muster and the Jerome Jamboree to look forward to. I have the week before Jerome off, we are going to go on a week long bus camping adventure in Northern Arizona and end up in Jerome for the event. Can't wait!
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richparker
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Joined: November 24, 2011
Posts: 6986
Location: Durango, CO
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| Posted: Wed May 27, 2015 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Vee Dub Nut wrote: |
Your new motor is going to be a 2175, 78.4x94 right?
I'm new to the bay bus world, but is running 94's generally accepted? Seems like I've read a lot of folks saying 94's are too thin for a heavy (and potentially hot) bus application, and to stick with 92 thickwalls or 90.5's. Don't recall if that was here or in the performance engine section of the forum??
Not a dig, just asking. I feel like you have a lot of first hand experience with the stroker engine in bay bus combination, so I value your opinion. I recently picked up a 68 bay westy that currently has a 1600dp in it. It will do for now while I get all of the other normal maintenance things attended to since its been barely driven the past 15 years. That said, I've got everything but a crank on the shelf to build a real nice 2176 that was going to end up in my Beetle, but it may now may be built and diverted to the Westy as that will be the car we use the most often now. I was just concerned about running the 94's or looking for some smaller ones. |
Yes it will be a 78.4X94. What is a 2176 or was that a typo?
As far as 94s go I have read many posts saying not to run them but...other people have different thoughts on the subject. My builder feels they are fine, he uses Mahle 94s and has had great success with many different head combinations. We have had lots of talks about many different sizes of engines. One that comes up a lot in our talks is the most popular engine these days, or so it seems, is the 2110 (82x90.5). He said he use to build a lot of 2016cc, 78.4x90.5 and had a lot of success with them. But he started using 94s now a days because of the additional power and he thinks the pistons are better. Athough you need torque to move a bus the power the 94s make help out a lot.
I did not have a CTH on my last engine (but I will on this engine) so can't tell you what the head temps were. I can tell you the oil ran in the 220* range before I installed an in/out oil pump. I understand that oil temp and CTHs are not related but my oil temp did come down 40* after the install and the whole engine area was a lot cooler.
At this point he thinks I spun a bearing and that's why the crank broke. There was a time that he couldn't get steel back bearings, so he was using alumiumn backed ones for awhile. He's not 100% sure which bearings he used on my build. Since the crank broke he's thinking they were the alumiumn ones. He is able to get the steel ones again and those will 100% be in the new build. Along with a new CB 78.4 crank.
I'd say run the 94s and build that stroker for your bus, you'll love it!!!
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Vee Dub Nut
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Joined: April 25, 2004
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Location: Dallas, GA
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| Posted: Thu May 28, 2015 5:32 am Post subject: |
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2175/2176 are used interchangeably a lot. I didn't realize I typed both in post. If you actually run the numbers 78.4x94 comes out to 2176.3cc
I really appreciate the feed back on the engine/piston size. I already have the Mahle 94B piston/cylinders on the shelf so it was my preference to use what I have so long as I wasn't stepping into certain doom. I will also be using a CB 78.4 crank (their 4340 one) for this motor (along with my autolina domed top case, CB ported 40x35.5 heads, etc, etc). The crank is the only thing I'm currently lacking. That and settling on a cam and exhaust. I've used an 82mm CB crank in a past turbo build for my T1 and was really pleased with it. It stood up well and spec'ed out perfect when it was built.
Overall I'm not worried about CHT's or oil temps. Neither of those IMO are massively impacted by the bore size. State of tune and how the engine/lubricating system are built up are much bigger factors. I've got a lot of experience in that arena messing with big strokers and turbos in my T1. I'm just new to the bay bus world and am trying to figure out what translates and what doesn't.
Good luck with the new motor build!
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richparker
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Joined: November 24, 2011
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Location: Durango, CO
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| Posted: Thu May 28, 2015 6:39 am Post subject: |
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Sounds like are builds will be very similar. I too am using an Autolina bubble top case and 044 (40x35.5, from my 2109) heads. I will be using the Engle 110 cam from my old engine and a new set of CB HBeam rods.
I was under the impression that B positions were used with the 82mm crank.
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Vee Dub Nut
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| Posted: Thu May 28, 2015 10:14 am Post subject: |
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Sure does sound like we are on similar paths.
I've got an Engle FK7 on the shelf, which is basically a 1.4 ratio rocker version of the 110 (very minor duration and total lift differences). Also have a set of 1.4 rockers too. This combo has been a strong contender in my mind for the Bus engine. I also have a couple of other cams, but the duration on those is getting out a little long and the lift increases. Great for a T1, but I think might loose too much bottom end for the Bus.
78mm crank is sort of the switching point for A or B pistons. At 78mm you really can go either way. It will be just a different combination of rod length and barrel spacers to get the deck height right. 82 crank, B pistons, and 5.4 rods are essentially a stock width replacement. Use that as sort of the benchmark. I'll be using the 78.4 crank, 5.5 H-beams (longer than stock, which I already have), and the Mahle B's. Assuming your using A pistons and stock/5.4 rods, you'll just end up with a little more barrel spacer than me at the same deck.
What kind of CR are you planning on running? What did you run on your last motor?
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richparker
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Joined: November 24, 2011
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Location: Durango, CO
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| Posted: Thu May 28, 2015 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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So...I guess I do have B pistons, for 2 years I thought I was running A's. He told me he never runs A's in stroker engines, learned something new today. 
My 2109 was 8.89 : 1 with 5.6 rods and .090 barrel shims
New 2175 will be 8.9 : 1 with 5.5 rods and .040 (I think that's what he said) barrel shims.
I also learned about under-square, square and over square engines.
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Vee Dub Nut
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Joined: April 25, 2004
Posts: 1184
Location: Dallas, GA
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| Posted: Thu May 28, 2015 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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Cool.. Thanks for the info! Always a good day when you learn something new.
And yes, you definitely have B pistons with those rod lengths and deck heights. What is your combustion chamber size? (I could just back calculate, but I'm tired LOL)
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