Fog light issues-I've read many/all threads on this topic

[Vinzanto]

I've been reading, evaluating diagrams, synthesizing information for the past 3 days trying to get my fog lamps going again. Initially only one lamp worked (passenger side) but after switching the bulbs it turned out both bulbs were good but only the passenger side worked.
So I tracked down the wires going to two(2) mounted relays (bosch) roughly above the gas pedal. Now I will mention here that I haphazardly began plucking wires from this location so I could start the wiring from scratch to gain an understanding of what was what and where they belonged.
In hindsight I am not sure if the lamps were wired to two relays or just one, but now I do have two unrelated yellow wires looking for a home that runs up the steering column to near the cruise control lever; in the mean time I put these two unrelated wires on the backburner.
So after carefully following instructions here on Samba this is where I'm at.
With the 3-way switch ON I am getting 12v to the H3 bulb socket. I am also receiving 12v at the relay for 87, 86, and 30; (85 is ground).
With the 3-way stock switch off 86 and 30 get 12v but 87 does not (expected).
Should the relay be getting 12v without a key (its constant)?

I feel that all is working properly but I am just not getting any light! (also new bulbs were installed).

Help me out VolksFolks this seems like an easy fix but I am stumped. I feel like the relay may be out but I can hear it perform its tell-tale "click" when turning off/on, which would suggest (in my narrow knowledge of electric) that the relay is functioning properly.

P.S. The wiring schematic doesn't appear stock , the wiring does not go to the fuse panel.

P.S.S. Which relay is the correct one out of the two mentioned prior:
0332204150 or 0332014150? Now my horn doesn't
work so I have a feeling that one is for the horn but just a guess.
_________________
1984 Vanagon Westfalia Wolfsberg

[thatvwbusguy]

There are quite a few possible pin configurations for automotive relays. If you post a good photo of the bottom of the relays showing the numbers next to the terminals, I can tell you how to wire them.

In general, you will need the following connections for a fog light relay:

12V+ constant power in to terminal #30
Switched power (trigger) to terminal #86
Ground to terminal #85
Power out from terminal #87 (not 87a) to lights.

The horn circuit always has 12V+ connected to the horn. When the horn is triggered, the circuit is completed via the ground. Mark Drillock came up with a simple relay setup to improve the function of the horn. Here is a photo of how it is assembled:

In this case, the connections are made as follows on a standard SPST automotive relay:

Terminal #30 to ground terminal on horn.
Terminal #87 to chassis ground (use a 5/16" ring terminal on the stock horn mounting bolt, or a #10 ring terminal placed under the mounting screw for the relay).
Terminal #86 - The yellow male disconnect connects to the stock positive horn wire (yellow and black).
Terminal #85 connects to the stock negative horn wire (brown).

I also make a horn relay kit using a sealed 40A relay if you would rather go with a ready made solution: https://sites.google.com/site/vanagonheadlightrelays/horn-relay
_________________
Jay Brown
'85 Zetec Westfalia
Newmarket, NH


If you want others to be happy, practice compassion.
If you want to be happy, practice compassion.

[Vinzanto]

Thanks for the information thatvwbusguy. Unfortunentely your reply offered no new information to aid in finding a solution for my problem. I shouldn't of mentioned the horn in such a long post it seems to of obfuscated my problem.

All my relay wiring matches the way you describe it above. The issue is that despite correct wiring and the fact that I am receiving 12v to the fog lamp sockets (H3) themselves and all is wired just as described in many posts via Samba I am not getting any light.

Oncemore, the horn is not my problem it is the fog lights that are puzzling me. 12v to all the proper places, the stock 3-way switch activates the relay (I can hear it click on and off), power to the fog lights, new lights installed (bulbs are not the issue), but no lights!

Can it be a bad relay? Bad ground? Is the switch bad? or are the stock 16-18 AWG wires (not sure of the size but somewhere in that ballpark) coming from the lamps undersized for the output needed? Thanks for the help everyone I hope I can get this solved!
_________________
1984 Vanagon Westfalia Wolfsberg

[WestyBob]

Solving your fog light issues is just not very easy to do using the arrangement you currently have over the net. None of us are there with our testers to have a better look & understanding and sort it out.

Shooting in the dark I'd say there is a ground problem. And it could be one or more of the relays is defective with regards to ground.

I've installed numerous fogs on rigs over the decades and have never used relays, just in-line fuse on the hot wire to the switch.

I'm not against relays and they can produce slightly brighter light but I never felt I needed them unless you're hooking up some uber high voltage jobs.

I'd recommend you hook it all up without the relays or take to an automotive electrician and get it done right. They'd likely have equipment to resolve it in minutes (ID the problem) and fix.

[Vinzanto]

I would be willing to get the fogs functioning without a relay. Do you have a schematic to show how to do so incorporating the stock 3-way switch?I'm not sure exactly how to do so with the relay subtracted but seems like a good idea for my particular situation. Thanks!
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1984 Vanagon Westfalia Wolfsberg

[geo_tonz]

[Vinzanto]

Its comical how often posts end like this but ladies, gentlemen, boys girls, the problem was a bad ground, geez .
I blew over ten fuses over four days and scortched one wire trying to figure this out but thanks to the diligent Samba crowd I stuck with the basics and have fully functioning fog lights...except after I created a nice ground contact I had the lights running for a couple minutes and blew another fuse
Then after putting in a fresh fuse and adding a zinc screw with an additional washer, along with more sanding of my ground surface, they seem to be in 100% working order .
Electricians keep your day jobs
_________________
1984 Vanagon Westfalia Wolfsberg

[thatvwbusguy]

Which fuses are blowing? Is there a separate inline fuse attached to the fog light wiring, or are fuses in the main fuse block blowing out?

What is the wattage on the bulbs? Did you go with standard 55W, or something more powerful? The wattage of the bulbs dictates the fuse size needed to protect the circuit.
_________________
Jay Brown
'85 Zetec Westfalia
Newmarket, NH


If you want others to be happy, practice compassion.
If you want to be happy, practice compassion.

[Vinzanto]

thatvwbusguy: I have an inline fuse between #30 on the relay and a constant 12v source, and in no other location; and the inline fuse is rated at 16amps. My fog lamps are 55w as mentioned and the relay is rated for 30 amps. Let me know what you think.
_________________
1984 Vanagon Westfalia Wolfsberg

[Vinzanto]

thatvwbusguy

[WestyBob]

It sounds like your in-line fuse is placed correctly with appropriate amps.

It also sounds like your primary hot wire that feeds the juice to the fogs is connected directly to or spliced into your ignition switch wire, which is always hot, which normally then goes to the fuse panel (on a rare occasion directly to the battery).

This will work although I don't know why someone would wire it that way rather than directly to the fuse panel -- to one of the spades on either side.

Note -- some of those spades are always hot and some are so only when the ignition is on.

For fogs I prefer one that is hot only when the ignition is on.

But the way you have it will work as I said.

The vast majority of the time a problem installing aux. lighting involves a ground issue.

[thatvwbusguy]

After re-reading your original post, I see something that does not sound right:

"With the 3-way switch ON I am getting 12v to the H3 bulb socket. I am also receiving 12v at the relay for 87, 86, and 30; (85 is ground).
With the 3-way stock switch off 86 and 30 get 12v but 87 does not (expected). "

Terminal #86 should not be getting any power when the switch is off. Terminal #86 is the trigger for the relay that energizes the coil when voltage is applied to it and terminal #85 is used as a ground.

Does the power for the switch you are using to control the fog lights come from the same source wire that feeds the relay with 12V+? Do the headlight switch or the ignition switch have any effect on the operation of the fog lights, or are the fog lights controlled solely via the 3 way switch?

Terminal #30 on the relay should have constant 12V+ input, so that is not a problem at all. It would still be best to know where the power is being drawn from though, just to ensure that you are not in danger of overloading another circuit. All of the current for your lights will pass from terminal #30 through the relay and out through terminal #87. This is why these two terminals typically have larger wires than terminal #86 & #85, which are only used to energize the electromagnetic coil for the relay.

55W bulbs x 2 = 110W total. 110W / 12V = 9.2A, so a 15A fuse is more than adequate to protect the circuit unless there is a physical wiring fault somewhere.

The fact that you say that you scorched a wire during your troubleshooting definitely suggests that there is something that is not as it should be. Since you are also blowing fuses, that indicates that the problem is between the fuse and the lights, not between the source that the 12V+ is being pulled from and the fuse.

To troubleshoot the system, I would start by carefully inspecting the physical condition of all of the wires to make sure that none of them are getting pinched (possibly creating a short to ground situation) and that there are no damaged sections of insulation on any of the wires. Be extra vigilant about inspection anywhere the wires penetrate the body of the van and ensure that there is some sort of extra protection (rubber grommet or split loom) to guard the wires against damage where the wires pass through the body.

Another common place to check for wiring faults is inside the fog light housings themselves. Since many (most) fog lights are made as cheaply as possible, they often have low quality wire and terminals used during fabrication that can lead to high resistance and short to ground issues.

A fog light controlled via a standard switch is one of the simplest circuits you could hope for. The solution will almost certainly be a basic wiring fault somewhere in the system.
_________________
Jay Brown
'85 Zetec Westfalia
Newmarket, NH


If you want others to be happy, practice compassion.
If you want to be happy, practice compassion.