Going through wheel cylinders

der58SC · Posted: Thu May 29, 2014 11:24 am Post subject: Going through wheel cylinders

Another issue I have had with my SC is that I am always replacing the front right (passenger side) wheel cylinders. When I drove my bus daily I replaced it several times. I rebuilt them about 2 or so years ago and now they are leaking again! No other wheels are leaking. Why this one and always this one?

I have used new German ones and they lasted the longest but I have had this bus for 14 years and I am only replacing the passenger side.

Thoughts?
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Stocknazi · Samba Member Joined: June 18, 2004 Posts: 5150

Do you know who made the wheel cylinders?

Did you hone the cylinders and use sil-glyde silicone grease on the bore and seals?

I always take apart/clean and reassemble all my new brake componants using sil-glyde on the bore and seals.
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BarryL · Posted: Thu May 29, 2014 7:12 pm Post subject: Re: Going through wheel cylinders

der58SC · Posted: Thu May 29, 2014 9:41 pm Post subject:

Yes I hone the cylinders out. No I do not know who made it but I know it is German. I did not use sil-glyde but did use a grease. Once I used brake fluid as a lube and that worked also. Got the same life out it as I did this last build that I used the grease on.

Nothing else is weird or wrong with this wheel. I have replaced the bearings once. Nothing else and yes the star adjusters keep the brakes at the right adjustment.

Could it be the soft line? I have not replaced the soft line.
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Stocknazi · Samba Member Joined: June 18, 2004 Posts: 5150

If you have not replaced the rubber lines, do so.

Replacing all rubber brake hoses is a given for all my vehicles. They always seem to be swelled shut anyway. I also do not want to put on new cylinders and push all the crap from the old dirty ass hoses through them.

You used a silicone grease, not regular grease, in your cylinders, right?

Using brake fluid only does not really provide any long term lubrication, more of an assembly lube if anything.
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"When the people are afraid of the government, that's tyranny. But when the government is afraid of the people, that's liberty."
"Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God."

Thomas Jefferson

BulliBill · Posted: Fri May 30, 2014 7:22 am Post subject:

I'm no chemical engineer, but I don't think normal automotive bearing grease is compatible with brake fluid, and might be part of your problem? There is a special lubricant make for use in brake systems that use brake fluid, and I have a squeeze tube of German "ATE" brand brake paste for use in lubricating brake parts during inspection and storage.

Yes! Change all four of your rubber brake lines, as over time they swell inward and start to choke off the return flow of fluid back towards your M/C.

I wonder also if "maybe" you have honed a cylinder a little too much causing too much clearance between the cylinder and the piston/seal causing some leakage?

Let us know what you discover here...

Bill
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Mission VW - San Fernando
Thornton VW - Stockton

Thanks for any help!

der58SC · Posted: Fri May 30, 2014 7:42 am Post subject:

I think I will be buying a new wheel cylinder and this time I will take it a part and lube it up with silicone grease before I install them. Also I will replace the rubber lines.

I do not think I honed them too much. I think the lack of real grease (no I did not use wheel bearing grease) might be causing this issue. I guess we will see after a few years if this is the case.

Thanks guys. I never thought about the type of grease I use would cause this.
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Stocknazi · Samba Member Joined: June 18, 2004 Posts: 5150

BulliBill · Posted: Fri May 30, 2014 12:35 pm Post subject:

Yeah, definitely use some grease/lubricant that is brake fluid and brake system friendly. I got the huge toothpaste-style tube of ATE brake grease from BBT in Belgium ( www.BBT4VW.com/en ).

The actual link to the ATE brake cylinder paste is: http://www.bbt4vw.com/en/catalogue/4-under-carriage/3-brakes%20/brakecylinder-paste/

Awesome stuff from the very folks who make the cylinders and brake components...

Bill
_________________
I'm looking for these license plate frames for my fleet:
Coeur D'Alene - Lake Shore Volkswagen
Mission VW - San Fernando
Thornton VW - Stockton

Thanks for any help!

cru62 · Posted: Fri May 30, 2014 6:24 pm Post subject:

Every bus I have ever owned and driven I have either replaced the hard lines or at the very least pulled a pipe cleaner through them. The long, front to back one is by far the hardest to do either way. But you absolutely will not believe the amount of gunky crap that that comes out. I use brake cleaner first until it starts to flow out of the opposite end and then pull the pipe cleaners through until everything looks clean.

Brake system efficiency is all about pressure AND volume. A lot of problems can be traced to obstructions, either partial or full, in the hard lines. Of course this isn't meant to discount the other parts of the system. It is just sometimes a matter of out of sight, out of mind. "If the hard lines aren't obviously failed, they pass the test".
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SambaUser1M · Posted: Fri May 30, 2014 9:14 pm Post subject: Re: Going through wheel cylinders

volksaddict · Samba Member Joined: August 19, 2003 Posts: 1724

I've probably rebuilt hundreds - ok almost that many - wheel cylinders and masters on all types of vehs. never once have I lubed one with anything except brake fluid, an assembly lube as was said earlier. Didn't even know there was a lube for hyd cylinders, they didn't teach me that in high school. Rolling Eyes

Sorry to all those owners of cylinders running around out there that I put out.
Learn something new here all the time.

Harleyelf · Posted: Sat May 31, 2014 5:50 am Post subject:

Have you tried swapping the drums to see if the issue moves?

der58SC · Posted: Sat May 31, 2014 7:21 am Post subject:

SambaUser1M · Posted: Sat May 31, 2014 7:36 am Post subject:

BarryL · Posted: Sat May 31, 2014 9:09 am Post subject:

elise111 · Posted: Sat May 31, 2014 12:21 pm Post subject:

Oversized drums were the culprit for me too. Mine were +1-2mm oversized, and the previous owner had several wheel cylinders replaced. I've found in- spec drums and never had an issue since. Took a while to find decent german drums though!
Pete

Erik G · Posted: Sat May 31, 2014 12:39 pm Post subject:

volksaddict · Samba Member Joined: August 19, 2003 Posts: 1724

See - I thought I made a mistake once but I was wrong Laughing

der58SC · Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 6:36 am Post subject:

thanks guys. I will have the drum measured today hopefully. If the the drum is the problem, I will be glad to hopefully put a stop to this crap.
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Like a midget at a urinal, I'm always on my toes

KCCO!!

Strictly Vintage 2s


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