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halbug Samba Member
Joined: March 09, 2006 Posts: 453 Location: Germany
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Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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OEM Spindles on Mendeola Chassis
To get my project legalized for street use in Germany I cannot use the welded spindles that came with the Mendeola set. The first Mendeola sets utilized stock spindles too, but they are no longer available.
I digitized the two different spindles to be able to compare the geometries on a computer. The upper ball joint had to be moved inboard, to get back to the steering axis inclination as Mendeola had designed it. The eccentric cone was digitized to be able to design the new adapter.
My first thought was to weld a cone in place of the eccentric into the spindle and ream the cone and spindle to get to the correct geometry. But I found out, that the spindle material contains sulfur – so I decided not welding them!!!
I’ve come up with a special adapter to make stock spindles a pure bolt on!
The CAD data are shown earlier. The angled washer is keyed to the eccentric cone, so that the washer is not pushed away when torque is applied to the nut.
All parts are CNC machined for tight tolerances. I am using high grade tool steel for those parts.
The steering axis inclination is exactly the same as Mendeola’s. Camber, Caster, Toe are adjusted just as with the welded spindles. Track width is reduced and scrub is slightly less, due to the higher axle location on stockies. Both works well with the wheel combo I plan on using.
Some pictures:
Thanks for your interest
halbug
_________________ Stealth Ghia Transformation: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7226044&highlight=#7226044
My Berg5: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=730276&start=0 |
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CiderGuy Samba Member
Joined: December 23, 2013 Posts: 1351 Location: Bucks County, Pa
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Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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Very nice job. Looks like he may have competition. _________________ ----------------------
Cars Currently Owned:
1970 Karmann Ghia Coupe
1973 Karmann Ghia Coupe - Project car for sale
1970 Karmann Ghia Convertible (Body off restoration)
Timing is everything |
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halbug Samba Member
Joined: March 09, 2006 Posts: 453 Location: Germany
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halbug Samba Member
Joined: March 09, 2006 Posts: 453 Location: Germany
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Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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Fitting the Mendeola Bulkhead
Finding the center... sounds easy doesn't it? It took me the better part of the morning until I felt I had found it
Cutting: The two cuts parallel to the tunnel help to position the bulkhead straight and in line with the chassis center line.
Some more fitting, grinding, hammering, bending: snug fit...
... until everything is ready to be welded in place
hours later ==> Done!
I will tack weld in place later, but first I will need to find what I call "the perfect place for the steering rack". More to come...
Cheers
halbug _________________ Stealth Ghia Transformation: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7226044&highlight=#7226044
My Berg5: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=730276&start=0 |
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CiderGuy Samba Member
Joined: December 23, 2013 Posts: 1351 Location: Bucks County, Pa
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Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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Please keep us updated, really interesting project. _________________ ----------------------
Cars Currently Owned:
1970 Karmann Ghia Coupe
1973 Karmann Ghia Coupe - Project car for sale
1970 Karmann Ghia Convertible (Body off restoration)
Timing is everything |
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Plipton Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2011 Posts: 78 Location: United Kingdom
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Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 12:26 pm Post subject: Halbug's adapters for stock spindles |
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Hi Halbug,
The adapters arrived today and I had them fitted within 20 minutes (pix below).
I want to say to anyone reading this that I don't believe there is a problem with the strength or design of the Mendeola welded spindles, but for us here in Europe (and some other parts of the world) it would not be possible to legally use the welded spindles on public roads without putting them through expensive destruction testing to get official approval to use them. It would also invalidate our insurance policies.
Using stock spindles overcomes both these issues and allows us to use the Mendeola suspension system so I am very thankful to Halbug for his hard work designing an adapter that allows me to upgrade my Beetle |
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halbug Samba Member
Joined: March 09, 2006 Posts: 453 Location: Germany
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Plipton Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2011 Posts: 78 Location: United Kingdom
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Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 1:09 am Post subject: |
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Hi Halbug,
Credit where credit is due. Without those adapters I would not be able to drive my car legally in Europe.
Ironically, local regulations are fine with the welded spindles but as soon as I take the car out of the island I would not be insured. The way you have designed them keeps the same geometry as the welded spindles albeit with a slightly higher ride height which I can adjust back to where I want it on the shocks.
We have a long way to go yet. The stage we're at is mocking up the rolling chassis then sitting the body shell on top to make sure everything fits as it should. Then we have to strip it all back to a bare chassis for painting and do it all again. We will be experts by then
Cheers
Plipton |
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halbug Samba Member
Joined: March 09, 2006 Posts: 453 Location: Germany
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Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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Some theory and back to “perfect steering geometry”, or why mess with the Mendeola design anyway?
1. I do not like cutting my Ghia body, so I try to minimize it.
2. I like to run the steering column through the original hole.
3. I want the bump steer to be as neutral as possible! More on bump steer here: http://www.longacreracing.com/technical-articles.aspx?item=8162 or elsewher on the web.
Simply put, the tie rod must travel on the same arc as the spindle to avoid unwanted steering when the suspension moves up or down (bumps). I took the dimensions off all the affected components and transferred them into simple CAD.
Black circles are the suspension pivot points and common center.
Green circle is the original tie rod ball joint.
Red circle is the up side down tie rod ball joint.
Little circles are theoretical perfect tie rod pivots.
Yellow circle is the inner pivot point of the tie rod, moved inbord to accommodate the Red circle.
So what does it take to achieve it:
1. Up-side-down steering ball joints
First issue was finding the right joints; correct length; larger than stock cone; offset to clear the sheet metal even more. Not easy, but with the help of a local parts store, I located Golf IV ball joints. Now, the much larger issue was finding a 1:5 (20%) tapered reamer, never thought that this would be so difficult! I lost 2-3 weeks to figure all this out. Anyhow, I got very lucky, because somebody made me one from an old reamer core . Next I need to get access to a larger drill press to get the work done…
2. The steering rack needs to be sunk into the tunnel
After a lot of aligning and measuring I got the cutting done today. I left some extra room to be able to adjust the rack up/down 5mm from my calculated location. Welding, steering rack bracket and tunnel reinforcement will be done in conjunction with the install of the bulkhead.
3. A 3-link steering axis (instead of 2-link)
I will be using one double and one single universal joint. Modified original steering column… more later.
That is a lot of effort to create my own personal “perfect steering geometry”, no wonder the Mendeola design did not go to such an extreme.
I will upload pictures as I progress…
Thanks for reading
Cheers
halbug
_________________ Stealth Ghia Transformation: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7226044&highlight=#7226044
My Berg5: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=730276&start=0 |
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Steve Arndt Samba Member
Joined: August 01, 2005 Posts: 1780 Location: Boise, Idaho
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Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 7:47 am Post subject: Re: Ghia coming home |
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Subscribed. Great work. |
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Olli from NJ Samba Member
Joined: May 10, 2007 Posts: 302 Location: Milton,DE
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Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:59 am Post subject: Re: Ghia coming home |
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Incredible work! Thanks for taking the time to show your work.
Olli |
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Loren Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2004 Posts: 1700
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Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:05 am Post subject: Re: Ghia coming home |
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Will you still be able to remove and install the shift rod with the modification to the frame head? |
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halbug Samba Member
Joined: March 09, 2006 Posts: 453 Location: Germany
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BuggyT4 Samba Member
Joined: September 25, 2007 Posts: 41
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Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:03 pm Post subject: Re: Ghia coming home |
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Amazing work! I look forward to seeing your project progress, especially as I love "sleepers"! |
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halbug Samba Member
Joined: March 09, 2006 Posts: 453 Location: Germany
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halbug Samba Member
Joined: March 09, 2006 Posts: 453 Location: Germany
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Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 1:34 pm Post subject: Re: Ghia coming home |
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Ghia reloaded After two years of home remodelling and garage building I started working on the chassis again - finally.
Here some pictures:
Same hoist like in the old garage but MUCH more space arround it
I built some fixturing to hold tank and steering column exactly like they sit in the Ghia body:
First very rough fit of 3-point steering joints:
Tank does not fit, Mendeola bulk head needs some clearancing - no problem. The larger task will be clearing the tank for my steering links...
Next I will make more paper templates of brackets and plates that I will need. You can see some in the above pictures already. Unfortunately the laser cutting of all these parts will take 4-6 weeks
So far...
Cheers Lars _________________ Stealth Ghia Transformation: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7226044&highlight=#7226044
My Berg5: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=730276&start=0 |
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halbug Samba Member
Joined: March 09, 2006 Posts: 453 Location: Germany
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Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 11:22 am Post subject: Re: Ghia coming home |
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Quick Update from my slow progress
Mainly planning (with cardboard or wood), detailing and making sure everything fits... some pictures
Planned reinforcements:
Plates for R&P attachment welded in place.
Pre-cuts for not needed bracketry - will remove after welding of bulkhead to chassis.
Holder and clearance for pre fuel pump.
First trail fit of R&P
Main brake cylinder (20,6 mm) from CSP, very tight fit with new R&P location. Will have to install without the CSP adapter.
Little details...
Cheers
Lars _________________ Stealth Ghia Transformation: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7226044&highlight=#7226044
My Berg5: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=730276&start=0 |
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halbug Samba Member
Joined: March 09, 2006 Posts: 453 Location: Germany
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Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:50 am Post subject: Re: Ghia coming home |
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Small steps - seeming to take for ever
Some of the work in pictures...
Bulkheads for fuel main and return line. I will run aluminum or steel lines along the tunnel, through the inside of the car. I feel that is the safest in the case of a side crash and I did not feel good running them inside of the tunnel, because I want them affixed every 30-40 cm or so...
I had to relocate the brake line through hole.
Brackets are tacked in place, paint from chassis removed for welding.
Reference points in the rear for dialing in bulkhead
Cheers
halbug _________________ Stealth Ghia Transformation: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7226044&highlight=#7226044
My Berg5: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=730276&start=0 |
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TDCTDI Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013 Posts: 12846 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:42 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the recent post, I am totally stealing these pictures to do the necessary Thing upgrades to The Ghiapet. _________________ Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.
GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!
An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.
Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it. |
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TDCTDI Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013 Posts: 12846 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:51 am Post subject: Re: Ghia coming home |
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halbug wrote: |
Brackets are tacked in place, paint from chassis removed for welding.
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Double check your measurements, it might be camera angles but the added on suspension mounting points don't look square. The passenger side looks closer to the bulkhead than the driver side. Measuring with a piece of paper on the screen show a definite discrepancy. _________________ Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.
GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!
An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.
Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it. |
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