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AndrewS85
Samba Member
Joined: May 13, 2013
Posts: 40
Location: Upland CA
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 Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 8:44 pm Post subject: IRS to Swing axle in a 69 |
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| Hey guys I just picked up a 69 and I'd like to switch to swing axle so I can run short axles. Can somebody point me in the right direction on what needs to be done to make the switch? |
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John Moxon 
Samba Moderator
Joined: March 07, 2004
Posts: 12754
Location: Southampton U.K.
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TDCTDI
Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013
Posts: 10264
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 4:46 am Post subject: Re: IRS to Swing axle in a 69 |
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You can narrow the IRS trailing arms & axles to retain the better suspension.
| didget69 wrote: |
| sanders356 wrote: |
1) The IRS suspension does not allow for wide wheels (6"+) to be fitted with out modifying the trailing arms, top shock tower mount themselves and/or the torsion tubes. Due to the expected power output i want to fit 17x6 fuch replica wheels but retain the original look of the IRS trailing arms.
I understand there are companies out there which modify your current trailing arms for a fee but i cannot help but feel they are structurally unsafe and less appealing.
Being a Mechanical Engineer i am in the process of designing myself new IRS trailing arms which are an 1" (25mm) shorter (width wise) which i shall get fabricated in the near future once i am happy with the final design. (I have also carried out stress calculations on the arms for my piece of mind). I bet the 'cut-n-shut' guys have not done that!!??
Can you think of anything that i might has missed before i commit to this path with the arms? |
The Speedster guys have been using narrowed T1 IRS trailing arms for years, by cutting & recessing the bearing housing in the stock training arms, reducing width 1"-1.25" per side. No strength issues when reboxed & welding done properly.
https://www.speedsterowners.com/topic/finally-narrowed-trailing-arms-for-irs
bnc |
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AndrewS85
Samba Member
Joined: May 13, 2013
Posts: 40
Location: Upland CA
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| Posted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 7:55 am Post subject: Re: IRS to Swing axle in a 69 |
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| Thanks guys but I'm not interested in narrowing my IRS, I'd like to just use a complete swing axle setup. |
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kingkarmann
Samba Member
Joined: November 05, 2003
Posts: 2411
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| Posted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 9:29 am Post subject: Re: IRS to Swing axle in a 69 |
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A pan swap would accomplish what your trying to do.
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"Ego is the anesthesia that deadens the pain of Stupidity.
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AndrewS85
Samba Member
Joined: May 13, 2013
Posts: 40
Location: Upland CA
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| Posted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 9:43 am Post subject: Re: IRS to Swing axle in a 69 |
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| kingkarmann wrote: |
| A pan swap would accomplish what your trying to do. |
Yeah, but I was hoping to not have ti go that route. |
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didget69
Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2004
Posts: 4748
Location: Raleigh, North Carolina
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| Posted: Sat Feb 01, 2020 8:01 am Post subject: Re: IRS to Swing axle in a 69 |
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Grab a Bentley manual for early ('66 & older) Type 1 chassis, and compare pics to what you have on IRS car. The swap isn't hard or complicated, if you look at it... Lots of info available without asking if you use a Search feature.
bryan
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AndrewS85
Samba Member
Joined: May 13, 2013
Posts: 40
Location: Upland CA
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| Posted: Sat Feb 01, 2020 9:35 pm Post subject: Re: IRS to Swing axle in a 69 |
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| didget69 wrote: |
Grab a Bentley manual for early ('66 & older) Type 1 chassis, and compare pics to what you have on IRS car. The swap isn't hard or complicated, if you look at it... Lots of info available without asking if you use a Search feature.
bryan |
Thanks for the same old "search feature " response. I was hoping to make contact with somebody who had done it. And fyi I didnt find anything about this when searching. Your input has been most useful |
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FRNKNSTNGHIA
Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2010
Posts: 411
Location: Kissimmee, FL
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| Posted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 6:52 am Post subject: Re: IRS to Swing axle in a 69 |
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Is there a particular reason you'd like to switch to Swing Axle? Are you trying to run wider wheels? If so what size?
With the proper offset wheels you can easily fit 7" width wheels in the rear.
My car currently has 15x6 Porsche wheels and I easily have clearance to run 1" spacers if I want the wheels to sit closer to the fender for a more flush look. |
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didget69
Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2004
Posts: 4748
Location: Raleigh, North Carolina
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| Posted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 8:55 am Post subject: Re: IRS to Swing axle in a 69 |
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| AndrewS85 wrote: |
| didget69 wrote: |
Grab a Bentley manual for early ('66 & older) Type 1 chassis, and compare pics to what you have on IRS car. The swap isn't hard or complicated, if you look at it... Lots of info available without asking if you use a Search feature.
bryan |
Thanks for the same old "search feature " response. I was hoping to make contact with somebody who had done it. And fyi I didnt find anything about this when searching. Your input has been most useful |
You're quite welcome. I'm not from an entitled generation.
bnc
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AndrewS85
Samba Member
Joined: May 13, 2013
Posts: 40
Location: Upland CA
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| Posted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 7:15 pm Post subject: Re: IRS to Swing axle in a 69 |
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| FRNKNSTNGHIA wrote: |
Is there a particular reason you'd like to switch to Swing Axle? Are you trying to run wider wheels? If so what size?
With the proper offset wheels you can easily fit 7" width wheels in the rear.
My car currently has 15x6 Porsche wheels and I easily have clearance to run 1" spacers if I want the wheels to sit closer to the fender for a more flush look. |
I'm trying to run 16x7 fuchs. That's interesting information, I'd love to keep my current setup if possible |
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AndrewS85
Samba Member
Joined: May 13, 2013
Posts: 40
Location: Upland CA
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| Posted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 7:18 pm Post subject: Re: IRS to Swing axle in a 69 |
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| didget69 wrote: |
| AndrewS85 wrote: |
| didget69 wrote: |
Grab a Bentley manual for early ('66 & older) Type 1 chassis, and compare pics to what you have on IRS car. The swap isn't hard or complicated, if you look at it... Lots of info available without asking if you use a Search feature.
bryan |
Thanks for the same old "search feature " response. I was hoping to make contact with somebody who had done it. And fyi I didnt find anything about this when searching. Your input has been most useful |
You're quite welcome. I'm not from an entitled generation.
bnc |
No, you're just a waste of time. Why respond to a post if you're not going to try to help? Like I said I was hoping to make contact with somebody that's done the swap. What part of what you've posted has been productive? |
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John Moxon
Samba Moderator
Joined: March 07, 2004
Posts: 12754
Location: Southampton U.K.
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| Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 12:47 am Post subject: Re: IRS to Swing axle in a 69 |
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| AndrewS85 wrote: |
| didget69 wrote: |
| AndrewS85 wrote: |
| didget69 wrote: |
Grab a Bentley manual for early ('66 & older) Type 1 chassis, and compare pics to what you have on IRS car. The swap isn't hard or complicated, if you look at it... Lots of info available without asking if you use a Search feature.
bryan |
Thanks for the same old "search feature " response. I was hoping to make contact with somebody who had done it. And fyi I didnt find anything about this when searching. Your input has been most useful |
You're quite welcome. I'm not from an entitled generation.
bnc |
No, you're just a waste of time. Why respond to a post if you're not going to try to help? Like I said I was hoping to make contact with somebody that's done the swap. What part of what you've posted has been productive? |
OK...let's just let the sniping pass and move on...life's too short etc, etc. Back on topic please.
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swavananda
Samba Member
Joined: February 14, 2009
Posts: 881
Location: Can o' Scruz
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| Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 7:04 am Post subject: Re: IRS to Swing axle in a 69 |
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OP...... first it would be helpful if you were a little more detailed with what your over all plan is. So all of us are saying why bother to do this ? Have you researched the clearance differences between a short axle swing and an IRS ? If you did then the answer is moot.
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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=489454 |
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jeffrey8164
Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2018
Posts: 2314
Location: Georgia
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| Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 7:12 am Post subject: Re: IRS to Swing axle in a 69 |
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I think they’ve spelled it out quite succinctly.
They want to bastardize their 69 to fit wider wheels.
So they need a short axle tranny and some spring plates.
If it were me I’d just flare the fenders.
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TDCTDI
Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013
Posts: 10264
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 8:20 am Post subject: Re: IRS to Swing axle in a 69 |
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Is part of your plan to drop it to the ground also? Just know that when you start lowering a swing axle car that you will also be chewing the inner edges off of the tires & destroying wheel bearings due to the lack of lubrication. This is the reason that most people usually go the opposite direction.
You can also search the early Beetle forums for people doing the swing axle conversion.
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Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.
GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you! |
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AndrewS85
Samba Member
Joined: May 13, 2013
Posts: 40
Location: Upland CA
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| Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 8:40 am Post subject: Re: IRS to Swing axle in a 69 |
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| TDCTDI wrote: |
Is part of your plan to drop it to the ground also? Just know that when you start lowering a swing axle car that you will also be chewing the inner edges off of the tires & destroying wheel bearings due to the lack of lubrication. This is the reason that most people usually go the opposite direction.
You can also search the early Beetle forums for people doing the swing axle conversion. |
Planning on just going a little lower in the back, nothing crazy |
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AndrewS85
Samba Member
Joined: May 13, 2013
Posts: 40
Location: Upland CA
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| Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 8:52 am Post subject: Re: IRS to Swing axle in a 69 |
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| FRNKNSTNGHIA wrote: |
Is there a particular reason you'd like to switch to Swing Axle? Are you trying to run wider wheels? If so what size?
With the proper offset wheels you can easily fit 7" width wheels in the rear.
My car currently has 15x6 Porsche wheels and I easily have clearance to run 1" spacers if I want the wheels to sit closer to the fender for a more flush look. |
Which type of Porsche wheels are you running? |
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didget69
Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2004
Posts: 4748
Location: Raleigh, North Carolina
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| Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 11:02 am Post subject: Re: IRS to Swing axle in a 69 |
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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=691687&highlight=short+axle
Requires:
A short-axle T1 Transaxle
The requisite Swing Axle spring plates
R&R time:
Remove the IRS transaxle & trailing arms
Change over the Swing parts...
Depending on year of Swing unit used, you may be grinding for flywheel clearance in bell housing.
Point of Order: If you are simply going for a narrower track, using 1" narrowed IRS trailing arms will tend to be cheaper than sourcing a Swingaxle transmission & the spring plates for a conversion..
Need anything else?
bnc
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didget69
Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2004
Posts: 4748
Location: Raleigh, North Carolina
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| Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 11:15 am Post subject: Re: IRS to Swing axle in a 69 |
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| TDCTDI wrote: |
Is part of your plan to drop it to the ground also? Just know that when you start lowering a swing axle car that you will also be chewing the inner edges off of the tires & destroying wheel bearings due to the lack of lubrication. This is the reason that most people usually go the opposite direction.
[i]You can also search the early Beetle forums for people doing the swing axle conversion.[i/] |
... some effort required.
Beetles sold in Mexico / South America up to end of production ran Ball Joint front / Swing rear setups - the swap is not at all complicated, you just need to compare what you have to the parts you need.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=330087
https://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=134222
bnc
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