Durable and drivable 2110

[buzzboy]

I've missed my old VW since I sold it 5 years ago. I've been though college now and I'm moving into a house with a garage. Time for a project. I've got a rough idea of what I want the end result to be, and I'd like to start with building an engine first.

Car wise I'd like to set up a rail for street use/abuse. Autocross and maybe a few runs down the 1/4. Kind of a street legal toy. My last VW build was my DD so it made it difficult to work on and update. Now I can possibly have a fun side project. It doesn't have to be crazy fast. I wouldn't plan to rev it above 4500-5000 rpm.

I've built two engines in the past. First I built a budget 1600 in which I slipped a push-rod-tube seal and seized the engine in 250 miles. The second was a slightly less budget 1641 which is still running strong with the new owner. Now however I can take my time and do things correctly. I would like to build an engine with focus on durability and drivability. This is why I came upon the 2110 size. That would give me the biggest jugs that are thickwall without cooling issues(if I read everything right) and a pretty long stroke without excessive clearancing. I've been reading a lot on aircooled.net and vw-resource.com about combos and building. I've come up with what I think would be a decent combo and I'd like tips and pointers if possible. I don't know much about stroker building but I want to take my time and learn as I go. Let me know how my parts list looks.

New Mag case clearanced from AC.N
82mm CW crank
90.5 "B" P/C
Static Compression around 8:1
IBeam Rods (5.4"?)
1.4 Rockers
Uprated short pushrods
Mellow Cam (Recommendations?)
Stock DP heads
HD Springs
Pertronix SVDA
Deep Sump
Stock Doghouse cooling tin
Single IDF? Dual IDF? Something else?

[jfats808]

[58 Plastic Tub]

^x2. I've got a 9:1 2110 set up almost identically for my '62 panel, with a SVDA, 40 Dellortos, and a 1-1/2" A1 sidewinder. It's a really, really sweet motor.
_________________
Stan Galat
"Everybody is entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts."

[SBD]

[Alstrup]

If the intention is to hardly rev it higher than a stock 1600 engine, the W120 would be too much cam IMHO. A Web 163 w 1,25´s is more than enough and will create a quieter valve train. And it will still have a power peak in the 5300 - 5800 rpm dependant on the combo.

Why the giant oil sump ? No need at all for a street engine. The only thing that happens is that the oil takes significantly longer to warm up. The cooling aspect that people refer to is over rated. - UNLESS one wants to make a poor man´s dry sump. Otherwise a CB 1,5 quart sump is more than enough and takes a lot less space under the car. (Less risk of hitting someting)

The cylinders are not the cooling issue in general. Slip in 1680´s and thin wall 1835/2180´s excluded. The cylinderheads are. For a street engine I would use an 041 or 043 casting. But the 043´s are hard to come by and the 041´s are discontinued. So the next choice is someting that is close to. Without knowing for certain I think the cylinderheads from AA have decent cooling. I do think that that is what Tims use as a base for their heads too. (I recently had a set of big valve cylinderheads in my hands, delivered in white boxes. I´m not sure of the brand as there are no stamps or numbers in them. If you think 044´s are closed up, you should see these, SHEESH!
The Tims stage 1 would be a good choice from a combo point of view. Agree on 9-1 CR.
A 1½" header is on the small side for the engine, it -will- limit the top end. But again, if the lower to midrange power is what its going to be used for it would be enough.

If you can get your hands on a nice set of 40 Dellorto´s it would be great.
Definitely an SVDA distributor or a Black box or a Megajolt system. That can pull 20 degrees out of the heads easily on cruise.

T

[vwracerdave]

Build the Buggy first then do the engine last. Building an engine before you have a car is foolish. I've seen too many times a guy builds an engine and never get to the car or the engine sits 2-3 years while he is building the car and the cylinders rust up from sitting then his brand new engine smokes and has to be rebuilt.

Build the buggy first and the engine last.
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2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK
Featured in Dec. 2001 HOT VW's Magazine page 63

Watch my racing video's http://www.youtube.com/user/okvwracer/videos

[Quokka42]

Nothing wrong with building a big engine with a mild cam, but stock heads are just not going to cut it. While stock valve heads can be made to work with your engine size, you'd be better off just buying some 40x35.5mm valved heads with larger ports already cast in. You can go a lot milder than the 163 if you don't want to rev high, just make sure it has enough lift to let the heads work.
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There has only ever been one man who was perfect, and they nailed Him to a cross.

[57 Rag]

[OLD VW NUT]

Build a thick wall 1835 with some 'balls' - better than sinking all that money into a milquetoast 2110. CW crank - W120 cam - 9.5:1 compression - 042 heads - 1.25:1 solid shaft rockers - dual 44 Kadrons or 40mm weber/hpmx.
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71 Ghia Coupe - stock body - no rust! Powered by a 2110 W/Dual HPMX 44's - Rancho Pro Street Transaxle - A/C by Gilmore

Other car - 2013 VW Golf TDI

[buzzboy]

So some better heads, got it. More airflow is always better. I'll do some more research into that area.

Why does everybody say to go for a stronger cam? The Engle 120 seems like a bit too much cam for what I want, from what I've read. I had a 110 in my old 1641 and it drove fine, but didn't idle well.

@jfats808
What is the reasoning behind the chevy journal crank?

Thanks for all the real advice!

Thanks to everybody else for not addressing my actual question...

[jfats808]

Less clearancing required. You can dumb the cam down with 1.1s but I wouldnt. There are so many factors to consider when u say the 110 didnt idle well in your old motor. Cr, combo choice, carb etc. If built right and the combo compliments what your target of performance is, the engine will run as intended. The combo I suggested is another one of those proven combos that work well for different applications and yours. The 120 cam is at the precipice imo of mild and hot street. When u ask for suggestions u will get many cause we All have an opinion.
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2276 IDA's 86C 11-1 DD !
2017 48 Trijet DRLA's W125

[buzzboy]

Yeah, everybody having an opinion is tough. I've been trying to read though peoples' known working setups and basing mine off what I read. I've always been a fan of bigger engines that aren't stressed to make power. You can have a smaller engine that is strung out with a big cam and high compression or a bigger engine that is tuned a bit softer. I can't find much dyno data though to see what kind of power I could expect from a street 2110.

I'm just not sure how I feel about revving one of these high enough to get use of an engle120. To me 5k feels plenty high. You're right though, the mild engine I had probably wasn't tuned well enough to get the w110 to idle right.

The other option I'd tossed around is to do a PintoBeans style swap but the complexity and rear weight of a Lima is not overly attractive even with the price/power savings. Plus I could see the Lima blowing a Type 1 transaxle a lot faster than a VW engine.

[Quokka42]

A Web 111 with probably not enough head ran about where you want it, but I never got it on the dyno. The track said higher than the estimated 120HP, but it always does when torque is down low and broader. The 111 is a little noisy, and hard on the valvetrain, but it did show me that it's hard to get the flow you need for a 2110 on stock valved heads. A cam with milder ramps and about the same 50thou duration and lift would be ideal if you choose the right heads.
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There has only ever been one man who was perfect, and they nailed Him to a cross.

[Dan Ruddock]

[[email protected]]

Get a Web 163, and use VW Journals. I only use Chevy for 84mm and larger strokes. No need to make this engine complicated.
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[mark tucker]

you can make the best parts junk in just a few min, or make them last for a very long time.it's kinda up you you and your builder and the abilities/ brains you guys have.

[buzzboy]

New Mag case clearanced from AC.N
82mm CW crank
90.5 "B" P/C
Static Compression around 8:1
IBeam Rods (5.4"?)
1.4 Rockers
Uprated short pushrods
Web 163
ACN or CB heads with 40x35mm valves
HD Springs
Pertronix SVDA
Deep Sump
Stock Doghouse cooling tin
Twin IDF

So a few things different from suggestions and reading. Updates in bold.
What is the deal with rod length and the proper way to size rods?
Are 1.4:1 Rockers too much?
How high of compression is safe on 87 octane?

[[email protected]]

Run 1.3s with the Web 163, and 8.75:1 CR. 1.4s are too much rocker.
_________________
It's just advice, do whatever you want with it!

Please do NOT send me Private Messages through the Samba PM System (I will not see them). Send me an e-mail to john at aircooled dot net

"Like" our Facebook page at
http://www.facebook.com/vwpartsaircoolednet
and get a 5% off code for use on one order for VW Parts ON OUR PARTS STORE WEBSITE, vwparts.aircooled.net

[stan_tichomirov]

I have a Web 163 with 1.1 rockers in an 1835 and am working through some issues, but idling and lack of low end torque isn't something I've experienced so far -- it's a strong cam IMO. I am going to sort it out as is as best as possible, but I feel my engine would still work fine with closer to 2 liter displacement. 8.1:1 CR would probably be not enough, at 8.7:1 it's working and it can probably be safe with even a bit more CR.

Stan
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[OLD VW NUT]