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Axle length
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209Euro58
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 12:04 am    Post subject: Axle length Reply with quote

Hello all. I'm redoing the rear brakes on a '66 Baja and am curious about the axle length. I have some new rear drums for my '58 and was looking thru the airheads catalog and realized that the part numbers are the same. The car came with 4 lug drums front and rear but I want to change it back over to wide 5. So I installed the new drums and now with the drum fully seated there's about 1 inch of axle spline showing so I can't tighten the drums down. I noticed the center cone on the old drums is taller than the new ones. My question...... Do I have wrong drums or did longer axles get installed, since it's a Baja? Any help would be appreciated. Thank you.
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RareAir
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

4-lug drums usually have a much taller snout as you described for long axles. If you want to install the short snout drums, you'll need to install a spacer between the drum & 36mm nut.

So Cal Imports sells this-
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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209Euro58
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool thanks. I was under the impression that 66 came with 5 lug from the factory. So why wouldn't the drums fit exact? Did the 66MY have longer axles that previous model years?
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 5:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your car most likely has a 1968 Swing Axle.
There are 3 basic axle lengths and 2 basic tube lengths.

VOLKSWAGNUT wrote:

For US Spec Beetles.
Up through 1966 used short tubes short axles with short splines
1967 used long tubes long axles with short splines
1968 and some 69 used long tubes long axles with long splines for the longer spline 4 lug drums.
Just FYI , for countries still utilizing swing axles after 1968, used long tube long spline axles.

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tehillah1
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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2016 7:39 am    Post subject: Re: Axle lengths Reply with quote

I see this is an older post...I'm trying to find dimensions on the axles tubes and rear bearing housings for the Type 1 swing axles. I've got '68 swing axle I'm rebuilding for my '55 oval project and want to put the shorter tubes/axles on it to get back to a stock dimension in the rear end. Anyone know the actual dimension difference for the pre-67 swing axles? I've got some options for used swing axles but don't know to identify the years they came out of...
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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2016 8:12 am    Post subject: Re: Axle lengths Reply with quote

All easily found using the search function... become familiar with it.. Wink
and ONLY ask the question in ONE forum.... Confused


RareAir wrote:
ALL the axle tubes are the same length. It's the end casting which makes the difference. 1966-earlier cars used short axles. 1967-68 cars used long axles. Either way, the actual axle tube is the same size. The end casting was lengthened on the 1967-68 cars to compensate for the additional length of the axle.


VOLKSWAGNUT wrote:
In addition.. for USA spec Beetles.

When comparing 1966 vs 1967

1967 swingaxles have approx 25mm (1 inch) longer axle shafts and tubes (per side). (long axle short spline)
Increases rear track width by approx 2 inches when used as a complete transaxle.
This information applies to 1968 swing axles as well.
1968 axle shafts are slightly longer than the 67's (long axle long spline) at the spline end to take advantage of the longer spline 4 lug drums.
The 1968 tubes are the same length as 67's but use different outer bearing offsets.
It is important to keep bearing caps with their respective tubes no matter the year.

Short axles (pre 67) and tubes can be installed on 1967 and 1968 transaxle cases.


VOLKSWAGNUT wrote:


Beetle tunnel case transaxle.

Short axle/short spline - '61-'66 T1
Long axle /short spline - '67 T1
Longer axle/longer spline - '68 up T1

and to repeat from above

For US Spec Beetles.
Up through 1966 used short tubes short axles with short splines
1967 used long tubes long axles with short splines
1968 and some 69 used long tubes long axles with long splines for the longer spline 4 lug drums.
Just FYI , for countries still utilizing swing axles after 1968, used long tube long spline axles.


fluxcap wrote:
Sorry man, don't have any short axles to measure, but found this pic from another thread with a yard stick in it to give you an idea until somebody can get exact measurements.
66 and earlier short axles on left
67 long axle/short spline in the middle
68 long axle/long spline on the right
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.




VOLKSWAGNUT wrote:
Yep... look at the end casting..

Its either wider than the average hand width..... or not..

Short Left... Long Right..

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Long top Short Bottom

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Now telling the difference between a 67 long tube or 68 long tube .. thats additional advice...




.



VOLKSWAGNUT wrote:


Just keep in mind and be sure to keep the bearing caps separated as even though the 67 and 68 tubes are the same length, the bearing placement is different.

I am currently using a transaxle with 2- 67 axles, a left 67 Beetle tube and a right 68 Type 3 tube (welded Z bar guide).

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
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tehillah1
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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2016 8:28 am    Post subject: Re: Axle lengths Reply with quote

Exactly the info I was hoping for! This is what makes The Samba such a great resource...Thanks the clear explanations and great pics.
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1965mt
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 6:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Axle lengths Reply with quote

this post doesnt come up on the first few search attempts.
i have a slightly different version of the two.
If thr longshaft/long spline is the only version available, does everyone add an additional 5/8" spacer?

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

mine is still 23.5" to the first spacer surface.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 6:20 am    Post subject: Re: Axle lengths Reply with quote

LONG axles.. are the same length from the tip of fulcrum paddle to the FIRST inner spacer surface.
The difference that determines which long axle they are ....is all in the spline length.

Those you have are long axle short splines.. so US spec 1967. (or swing axles that used long tubes and wide 5 drums later than 1967 in other countries)..

Now about spacers in general ..

If assembling as originally designed, stock, not kustom or altered . NO EXTRA spacers are required.

Short axle short spline uses wide 5 drum
Long axle short spline uses wide 5 drum

Longer axle long spline uses 4 lug drum (longer spline and snout)
(or Type 181/182 Thing drums)

The difference in the drums is the spline and snout length and shoe surface

Certain exceptions.
The need to add an extra spacer to the long spline axles depends on a few factors such as backing plate, brake shoe and drums being used.

If you are using wide 5 drums.. no extra spacer is required in addition to the original inner and outer spacers with short splines.

Make sure you know how the axle is supposed to be properly assembled
All spacers are to be installed with the inner radius (curved inner portion) inward towards the transaxle.
This is critical for proper spacing and oil control.

.
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aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
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1965mt
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 9:06 am    Post subject: Re: Axle length Reply with quote

The 1967 axle in you picture has the splines starting at 1 3/8 versus 1 1/4, Unless I am mis reading.

My question is 'which side of the hub to put the spacer?'
Assuming it is ok to use a spacer.

I would prefer a longer spacer but I don't know where to find one.
I also can't seem to find a long shaft/short spline axle.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 9:19 am    Post subject: Re: Axle length Reply with quote

1965mt wrote:
The 1967 axle in you picture has the splines starting at 1 3/8 versus 1 1/4, Unless I am mis reading.

My question is 'which side of the hub to put the spacer?'


The difference can be a visual parallax in pictures.
The more important part is where the splines end..

Properly assembled the splines stop just short of the bearing race to provide a smooth axle surface for the outer spacer O ring.

If using 67 axles and wide 5 Type 1 drums.. use the correct stock inner and outer spacers assembled correctly ..

Nothing more.

Not sure what you mean by HUB???

Review the proper order of assembly.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


1965mt wrote:

I also can't seem to find a long shaft/short spline axle.



You have a picture of one? Anxious
Need another?

Plenty out there... I probably have 15.

.
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aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
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Scott65Beetle
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 5:01 am    Post subject: Re: Axle length Reply with quote

This is funny to me since I learned about the differences the hard way when taking apart my 66 bug and could not figure out the origin of leak at bearing cap. The po as it turns out cobbled together various years of parts and a lot of permatex. It was THEN I got the education I see listed in this post today. I often wonder do Porsche guys do things as half assed as all the stuff I've run across on VW's?
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1965mt
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 11:48 am    Post subject: Re: Axle length Reply with quote

I think RairAir answered the question. I wasn't looking for that in the beginning so I missed it (and that is one ugly weld!). The spacer goes on the outside of the hub.

I will go this direction until the time I replace the hub with a "snouted" hub.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 12:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Axle length Reply with quote

1965mt wrote:
I think RairAir answered the question. I wasn't looking for that in the beginning so I missed it (and that is one ugly weld!). The spacer goes on the outside of the hub.

I will go this direction until the time I replace the hub with a "snouted" hub.


So hub = drum..

Since you seem to be so sure you need an extra spacer..
The most common practice is to use an extra outer spacer between the drum and nut.

Plus... there is the right one. No weld required.

Such as.. http://www.pacificcustoms.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Scr...ange_high=

Additionally.... there are two different axle nuts that can be used to provide proper locking pin alignment..

Non Flanged
https://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=111501221

Flanged
https://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=311501221


.
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aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
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MIKEmike1961
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Axle length Reply with quote

Hello everyone and I hope I am posting in the correct forum, if not someone please set me straight,
Ok I have a 67 ghia and need rear tire to fender clearance so decided after hearing it so much to do the short axle swap? Before I go to the expense of purchasing the short axles I was hoping someone would give me some advise!
After pulling the trans and removing one of the axles I discovered that according to specs I have a 1968 trans with the long axles long splines? So my question is what parts do I need other than the 26 inch axles to complete the swap? Will stock 4 lug brakes and inner bearing work?
Any help would be greatly appreciated and repaid!
Thanks mike
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 1:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Axle length Reply with quote

I am installing a rebuilt pro street tansaxle. I have some SAW 2260 axles, it's a 62 bug. It has the short end castings. I am reassembling it and noticed the inner spacer was not there. Ordered new spacers and can't get bearing cap to sit flush. I measured everything see photo. A .250 spacer should work, but the shoulder on axle doesn't allow the spacer to go in far enough. Are the SAW axles meant to be used without spacer or a different bearing?
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 1:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Axle length Reply with quote

Issue is only on driverside.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 3:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Axle length Reply with quote

What comes.to mind is to make sure that inner spacer isn't installed backwards on the driver side.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 4:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Axle length Reply with quote

Might have the wrong bearing cap on the driver side? There are several different depth caps depending on year and end casting. Compare it to the passenger side. Or it's possible you have different end castings side to side. Measure how far bearing sticks out of end casting on both axles .
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 11:18 am    Post subject: Re: Axle length Reply with quote

Changed from short to long axles on my splitbeetle. Problem now is the damper doesn.t line up anymore. They fit perfectly on the shorttube but the angle is different on the long tubes. Is there a readily made kit for this or do i have to make my own spacers?
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