www.123ignitionusa.com

[FRNKNSTNGHIA]

Wondering if anyone has used or experimented with this distributor. Fully programmable distributor which can be purchased with Vacuum advance or without. I like the fact you can hook up to a laptop and pinpoint any specific rpm points. If not I'll try to get more info form the website.

[jdcool4]

About half way down page 13 . http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=338881&start=240. I ended up with the magna spark digital and really like it.

[Alstrup]

FWIW I messed around with the 123´s a couple of years back. (Not the 123 tune though, manual version) In both occasions I ended up replacing it with a regular 009 that got curved for the engine, and got better overall power.
IMHO it has some problems that needs to be adressed before it can be good. I still say, let the MG and Triumph people keep it. On those engine anything is better than stock.
If you do not want a trigger ignition such as the Black box, Megajolt etc. the best bang for the buck is definitely a Mallory Unilite and the CB Magnaspark (Pertronix type) close behind.

T

[FRNKNSTNGHIA]

Torben thanks for the info. I take your information with absolute trust as you have built and assembled engines with actual proof of their ability. I will look into the Mallory and Magnaspark. I was given a Practical Classics magazine from a customer of mine, and I saw the add for the 123ignition. Since it had the ability to actually manually tune via laptop I was very interested. Surprised the only post I saw here on Samba was from 2006.

[NobyDoby]

Have an 123 Tune on my Type4 2.0 Aircooled.
I am very content with it.
The ignition curves were tuned in on a "rolling road". Changed my vacuum curve later, based on logged info and "feel".

I put it in because I wanted a decent vacuum response which was not do-able with normal dizzy's. My dual Dell's were not delivering enough vacuum. Bonus with the 123 is a very nice stable run and lower fuel consumption (went from 19.5 mpg to 21 mpg). Engine now feels like a modern car.
_________________
1980 Aircooled Type 4 CU 2.0L T3 Westfalia:
Flowed AMC 39x33mm heads with Porsche swivel adjusters and CR 8.0:1
94mm Mahle dished P/C's & 71mm Stroke
Original VW CU Bus Hydro Cam w/Febi Hydro Followers
Dual Dellorto's DRLA 40 - 32 Venturi's
SyncLink Throttle System
MSS Central Airfilter
123Ignition Tune & NGK BP6ET
Vintage Speed Dual Side Super Flow Type 4 Exhaust

[Alstrup]

I think the very fact that you can change settings from a laptop and without getting the fingers dirty lures a lot of people to buy it. But if the base product is not up to par, it does´nt get you anywhere, apart from lightening your wallet.
The 123 system is used to some extend over here. On milder engines you dont see the downsides so much, and people kinda think that that is how it is supposed to run. But as soon as you get into the serius engines, high compression, high hp the problems become visible very fast.

One of the customers that attends one of the shop I work with has a Triumph TR6 which he did some really nice work on. In the initial stage we managed 187 hp with a lot of detonation above 6 grand. I told him to upgrade to a trigger system due to the fact that these engines have a lot of slack in the pinion drives and lousy distributors, so the timing is all over the place.
He "cheaped out" and bought a 123 because other club members recomended it. It definitely ran better than stock, and we got 5ish hp and about 300 rpm more out of it, and that was it. I yanked his chain once more and told him to go Megajolt, as most of that system is bases on Lucas and Motorcraft parts anyway, so the parts would´nt stick out in his vintage car. After a couple of month´s thinking time he pulled the plug and went Megajolt. It took us a full afternoon to get the timing perfect, and now also with vacum advance. The end result was 202 hp at 6300, and it pulls well beyond 6500 until the springs can´t keep up. It also pulls 10 Nm more torque from 2000 to peak rpm compared to the 123 and even better compared to the stock unit.
"Our" cars arent nearly as bad with stockish parts as the Triumph´s are, so the difference between some of the aftermaket stuff and modified stock is very little or none.

The stock type distributor can also run with a set of Dellorto´s, (unless you run a really aggressive cam like an 86c or similar) You just have to pick the right one or replace the return spring with one that fits the vacum signal from the carburettor. VW have/had extensive material regarding which distributor did what. When you look into these it is relatively easy to pick the type that suits your engine. If you think the 123 is nice and steady you should try a Unilite. Unless they have changed type/design over the last year or so you also have to live with that the shaft is actually not the correct length for an ACVW engine, but a little too long. not the end of the World, but why(?) If the 123 could be hooked up to a crank trigger (I´m sure its possible) it should be as accurate as other similar systems, but then I think the other systems on the market gets interesting on price alone.

T

[NobyDoby]

Had contact with one of the guys at 123 Ignition and he told me the target of the 123 distributors is NOT big/custom/high rev engines. They are meant as replacements for original distributors or to work with light tuned/changed engines. Simple tuning/management and stock appearance, together with low maintenance and stable performance where the main goals.

If you are talking crank trigger, it's a whole other price range AND it changes the whole apparance of the engine.

In my case, with slighty changed engine and low vacuum signal, it was the easiest/cheapest way to get a very good and stable running engine with better mileage.

To get more HP I could have gone crank trigger, which would have set me back around €1500,- ($2000,-). Performance then would be limited by my Vintage Speed exhaust. To upgrade that another €300,- ($400,-). The next limiting factor would be revs, so a new cam should be needed. And so on. (But I only wanted a very smooth running, reliable and low maintenance engine with a good bottom torque and a decent mileage)

Bottom line: On a standard(isch) or light tuned engine (< 6000rpm) the 123 Tune is a good solution. On bigger engines with aggressive cams you will probably be better of with a crank trigger solution.
_________________
1980 Aircooled Type 4 CU 2.0L T3 Westfalia:
Flowed AMC 39x33mm heads with Porsche swivel adjusters and CR 8.0:1
94mm Mahle dished P/C's & 71mm Stroke
Original VW CU Bus Hydro Cam w/Febi Hydro Followers
Dual Dellorto's DRLA 40 - 32 Venturi's
SyncLink Throttle System
MSS Central Airfilter
123Ignition Tune & NGK BP6ET
Vintage Speed Dual Side Super Flow Type 4 Exhaust

[Alstrup]

A crank trigger MJ system is less than € 600.- plus installation.

But I can´t beat a happy customer.

T

[daos]

just thought i'd add that Progression Ignition are planning to release a vw version of their electronic distributor. no firm date, but may be an interesting alternative to 123.

i'm still on the fence whether to go 123 or upgraded 034 SVDA with electronic points.

[Krochus]

[FreeBug]

I tried to tune a 123.
And it did not go well.
Although I think, from what I see,
it can adjust the dwell.

My problem was my intuition,
on how the vacuum worked, you see
I sucked and sucked but the ignition
never moved by one degree ...
I scratched and scrached and scrached my head,
No idea how it works, and THEN
I figured out why I sucked 'til dead:
it won't read vacuum under 1000 rpm!

Maybe this will help you save time,
Not chasing your own tail, like me,
But that's the last time that I'm trying
to tune the wond'drous 123...

As Alstrup said, they're not that bad...
on a british car...
where (and this makes me sad)
the stock is worse, by far.

[udidwht]

[StefansBus]

On the bluetooth and USB units one can define the vac advance lower cut off RPM as well as freely program the mech and vac advance curves.

One can however not attach RPM "conditions" to the vac advance other than the lower cut off RPM.

I know it's not really cheap and not everybody is a glowing fan but for my application (mild 1776) I have been very happy with it. Drivability is excellent no matter when I hit the gas pedal and how quickly or slowly I do it. It always pulls. Never stumbles or hesitates. It pulls 79hp with a single 34 PICT. And it looks almost like stock which is a bonus here in Germany when TÜV-time (technical inspection) comes.

Stefan

[StefansBus]

[modok]

Nothing to do, heavy meds?
Best wishes.

[FreeBug]

I feel your pain
The Tüv is tough!
The meds, again,
aren't strong enough.

Thanks for your concern,
All good here, just tryin' to learn.

[Dale M.]

[Bmxmarine]

[Alstrup]

Up until about mid 2018 I typically told everyone not to bother with the 123, because especially the entrance models with fixed curves are not really what an ACVW wants except maybe a stock engine. I am still not 100% satified with them. There are a couple of solutions that I find utterly stupid, but apparently you can´t get it all. In 2018 or thereabouts they made a change to the adjusting part, so that you now hav a "proper" chance to adjust the engine to its needs, or at least close (With the bluetooth and the USB)
Due to the quality issues with aftermarket distributers and electronic units- and the cost of rebuilding a Bosch SVDA with good parts, if you can even get them, I have to an extent folded and are now using and selling 123´s, mostly BT´s.
One advantage apart from the obvius is, that it is also easier to do remote assistance since we can just log on to peoples phones or watch live over Whatsapp or Zoom or some other service.
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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=435993