Stop/Lockout Plate Adjustment. 1st to 2nd and Reverse.

[denver_74]

I am working with a new/rebuilt transmission (4spd. standard) and new clutch. The shift plate is good condition (square end) as are the shifter guts and the shift coupler.

The shift plate is installed correctly (tabs/ramp up. long side RIGHT).

ISSUES:

• Finding reverse is slightly problematic. It will go into reverse but it takes a couple of tries.

• Occasionally, while shifting from first into second, it wont go into second and I get the nasty grind. It doesnt happen on every shift but (for example) while racing around the city maybe 3 out 10 starts from a complete stop I will hit the grind and not second. Gets into first without issue and shifts 3-4 without issue.

I have searched the samba and the net ..and followed these instructions
http://www.vw-resource.com/plateadj.html

Can anyone give me some other ideas on what is going on or how to adjust a shift plate??

Thank You in advance. D74
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1974 Standard Beetle Sunbug

[Cusser]

Gearshift straight up in neutral.
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1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297

[Zylinderkopf]

I went through this recently myself. The grinding noise is probably you trying to shift into 2nd but hitting reverse. For me it turned into a trial and error situation: I started with the gearshift straight up in neutral (Cusser is right) and tightened up the bolts on the plate. drove around, testing gears. Kept the socket wrench in the car and kept loosening the plate, adjusting it, retightening plate, testing gears…etc until I had it right.
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1963 Beetle
1966 Beetle 1300
1970 Karmann Ghia Coupe
1971 Super Beetle
1974 Thing


"A lot of people never use their initiative because no one told them to."

[denver_74]

yes i start with gearshift straight up in neutral before adjusting.

i read on another samba thread that i should adjust left (driver side) if the issue is second gear. does that make sense??
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1974 Standard Beetle Sunbug

[Tim Donahoe]

I have a 1974 Super Beetle with the square-end shift plate. It takes me about 2 minutes, tops, to adjust my shift/plate/housing. However, when I attempted to install a Wolfsburg West shift-lock, I ended up with the same issues that you're reporting: shifting into second, or downshifting from third to second and getting the grind because it's trying to shift into reverse.

Sounds like your shifter ring is going under the reverse lock-out tab.

I went back to my stock shift arrangement and no problems with adjusting.

If you have your shift plate oriented correctly: tabs up with the long ramp to the right (passenger side), then that's not the issue.

I adjust this way. I loosen the two shift-plate bolts so that the shift housing/shift plate is snug, but I can still nudge the shift plate/housing. Then I shift into first and second and watch the shift-plate/housing move where it wants to go. I do this with little pressure on the stick. When I get first and second easily, I tighten down the shift housing bolts.

Then I try third and fourth. Hopefully, I get those gears easily. If not, I loosen the shifthousing bolts again and shift into third and fourth. The shift housing will move, too, of course.

Keep tightening and loosening the two bolts until you can shift and get all four gears--but I'm usually lucky enough so that when I get first and second, using this method, all the other gears follow in line.

If you get all the gears well and you still have a reverse lock-out problem, then something is causing the lockout feature to screw up. The shift plate may be bent. It only takes a small tweek of the shift plate to ruin it and render the reverse lock-out feature inert.

Tim

[denver_74]

yes i need to correct my original post long tab RIGHT (passenger side)
i have it oriented correctly

i will try the above method. thank you.

at lunch i was reviewing one of my haynes manuals and they suggest going into second and then pushing the stop plate left (drivers side) until it contacts the shifter. i havent tried that method either

d74
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1974 Standard Beetle Sunbug

[maplesyrup]

[denver_74]

yes that is method in the haynes manual

"exactly vertical in the transverse direction"?? i still havent figure out what that means lol

i assume it means..put it in second
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1974 Standard Beetle Sunbug

[davidw99]

[Fair-cooled]

Hello all, I’m having trouble getting my gear shifter aligned properly so that my shifts are smooth and gears select without troubles. One thing that my Haynes manual mentions is that I need to align the little spring loaded ball in the much larger shifter ball with a slot in the front of the shifter rod ( I assume this is simply to keep the shifter from rotating during up or down shifting...to keep the markings on the gear knob correctly aligned...my super doesn’t have this tiny ball, just a hole where one might fit). Also, I don’t recall seeing a groove in the front of the shift rod socket that a tiny ball could slide into.
My beetle, a ‘74 Super has always had a shifter that will rotate since I bought it.. Also , my shifter ball ( that engages with the socket in the shift rod ) has a hole where I suspect this tiny ( ~ 3 to 4 millimeters ) metal ball should fit...the only place that it could fit. My first question is, was this tiny ball discontinued at some point, but the hole in the gear shifter ball was still machined...just left empty of this ball ? Or has this ball fallen out/disintegrated on my shifter ?
My second question is related to the Haynes instructions above in this thread. When it says “engage second gear, then tap the lock out plate to the left”...is this opposite to what should be done because Haynes is a British company, and its cars are right hand drive ? To me this seems opposite to what should happen, though I fully admit I am not a mechanic...just an amateur gear-head. I must say it appears that there is a great deal more for - aft adjustment than left - right. My selector plate appears fine...the position seems correct.
BTW- Tims method seems pretty easy...should I start with the Haynes method, or use Tims method. This crappy shifting has been happening since I bought the beetle several months ago, and now I need to decide if this trouble is transaxle related or simply shifter plate adjustment, because if it’s transaxle trouble ( my beetle shows 99,000 miles ) then I will source one during the winter layup period.
Also something that may be noteworthy is that, to my surprise the shift rod bearing ( just an inch rearward of the gear stick ) was in fine condition, so I did not replace it. I replaced the shift rod coupler-although the factory one seemed in fine condition. Finally, but maybe importantly, my shifter troubles have never caused a grinding, only gears that are very often stubborn to find/engage. 3rd to 4th gear shifts never fail, upward or downward ( 4th to 3rd ) but downshifts from 3rd to 2nd, and 2nd to 1st, as well as upshifts into 2nd and difficulties engaging 1st gear are my troubles.

Thanks for any advice gang...
Darren.
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‘74 Super beetle, originally from California until 5 years ago.

Seize the day...not the Engine...

[Tim Donahoe]

Darren, it sounds like your shift plate is the issue. Adjust it, using my method, or the one above (British makes no difference). Basically, when the top of your shifter is in second (sort of to the left), the bottom ball/ring should just be touching the right side of your shift plate.

Our later shifters had no slot in the shift rod, or a small corresponding shaft sticking out of the shift ball. The older bugs had this arrangement because their shifters were bent backward. Later models didn’t need the slot/shaft because our shift hole was located further back. In other words, we didn’t need no stinkin bent shifter. Our shifters move around in circles, as a result.

Take your shifter off completely and, using pliers, grab the shift rod and see if it moves up and down. This is how you check, not with your eyes, but by feel, to see if your shift bushing is in good shape. There should be no up and down movement of the shift rod.

If the shift rod bushing is snug, then try my method, first, because it allows the shift plate to also move fore and aft (these positions are also critical), and, for me, at least, the shifter simply tells me where it wants to go.

Just keep trying. You’ll get it.

Tim
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Let's do the Time Warp again!

Richard O'Brien

[Fair-cooled]

Thanks Tim, your help is always appreciated, as are anyone else You have helped me with a lot of issues with my beetle . I guess I don’t have to tell you that I finally got my rear seat removable. A fairly easy job actually...I used an angle grinder to cut a 4 inch piece of the seat cushion front support metal off, at what I judged to be the level of the seat cushion bottom frame ( about
3/8th of a inch from the top of this front bracket ). Then I made a perpendicular cut at each end of this 4” piece.
With this chunk of metal gone, I used my largest flat screwdriver to pry up between the seat mount and the seat bottom. Then I just took my next largest screwdriver and pried up again...I just continued doing this and the seat moved upward bit by bit until it come right up. Then I cleaned all the old dried glue up. Amazingly I didn’t harm the upholstery, and for the time being I filled in the slot with a piece of cardboard, then using electrical tape I covered the cardboard thoroughly. Happily, I found no rust under there, I appear to have a new battery, plus I now have a better idea of how the heating system works.
Sorry for going off topic.

My shift rod bearing is a snug fit, with zero noticeable play upward, downward, or side to side. I DID use slip joint pliers to prove this. No movement was felt in any direction. Now I have a spare, and know how to do the job. Thanks for the info on the pin and slot. A pin makes much more sense than a spring loaded ball, but the main thing is that I’m not missing a piece .

I am going to try your method first...and continue “tweaking” as necessary till I get all 5 gears ( btw reverse has never been a problem, and my beetle has never popped out of gear. I’ll be a very happy camper if I manage to get normal shifter action $$$. And if I don’t have success after approximately one hour ( carpet is still up and tools still in the car ) I will try the Havnes manual method.

Thanks Tim;
Darren. I’ll be getting to this when the sun rises. Can’t hardly wait to try this again, but with more knowledge. Slowly but surely the beetle is revealing her secrets to me ✌🏼.
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‘74 Super beetle, originally from California until 5 years ago.

Seize the day...not the Engine...

[Fair-cooled]

Hello all

I have to admit that I am having a h*ll of a time trying to adjust my gear shifter/ adjustment plate. For one thing, I’m finding conflicting info on the correct shift plate alignment. My car is a ‘74 Super, and although it wasn’t shifting great when I bought it, it’s gotten worse...seemingly from me trying to fix it

I should note that although I market the outer housing ( that is visible with the carpet up ) before unbolting it, I didn’t check the position of the adjuster plate. Now to the conflicting info on the correct position of the adjuster plate... Tim , I went with your method first. About 6 hours spent over 2 days and still no luck. So I checked a large number of videos ( not sure how to post the links ). They say the long, low, lip on the plate, with the upswept end...should go to the LEFT with the short but higher lip to the RIGHT .This is also what my Haynes manual says ( manual # 96008 - 1954 thru 1979 - beetle & Karman Ghia - all models ) on page 7A-2
“Shift lever and shift rod-removal and installation”, which is chapter 7 , section 3. Paragraph 5.
This is the part of this section that seems to contradict your thoughts/experiences Tim. It says (in part ) “ Some stop plates have a single tab on the right side of the hole which faces up; other plates have two tabs facing up, with the long, low, narrow tab near the driver and the shorter, higher tab on the right”. I feel like I’m loosing my mind .

I’ve actually tried adjusting the shifter with the plate oriented BOTH ways, but this is obviously not the best method and my results were SOL. I have cleaned and checked all components as good as possible-I have a slide micrometer, but no measurements to go by. But as I said, all looks fine in all ways.

I sure could use some ideas here folks. I am certainly not saying Tim is wrong. I’m just soooo confused and frustrated. I’d happily buy a new complete shifter if I thought that might help, but I just can’t see any wear. My shift rod coupler cover is off, and I can see it working fine with the shifter rod, plus the shifter rod coupling is new, and the shift rod bearing has zero noticeable play in any up, down, sideways, etc way.

If/when I find my camera ( going to check my bug for it now ) I will post pictures if anyone thinks that will help. Also, I should mention that my car seems to have the correct shift rod...no ball or pin slot at the front of the socket...just as it should be on my late model bug

Please, if you have even a notion of what may be wrong, including the transmission itself, let me know. Thank you all...sorry for such a long post.

Darren.
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‘74 Super beetle, originally from California until 5 years ago.

Seize the day...not the Engine...

[Fair-cooled]

A Just an update, but I’m still interested in ANY ADVICE friends. Steve at CIP.1
in British Columbia ( one of my favourite parts supplier - no duty hassles etc ) tells me that the long, low, ramped side should go towards the passenger side of the bug. Knowledge is power ! Cheers all...please post your thoughts on this if you think it could help in any way.

Darren.
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‘74 Super beetle, originally from California until 5 years ago.

Seize the day...not the Engine...

[Tim Donahoe]

“If you have your shift plate oriented correctly: tabs up with the long ramp to the right (passenger side), then that's not the issue.”

Darren, the above sentence is where I mentioned how the shift plate should be oriented. “Tabs up with the long ramp to the right”.

Maybe you got confused when I added, ... “then that’s not the issue”. I added this, as if to say that if the tabs were up with the long ramp to the right (passenger side), then this proper alignment of the shift plate was the the previous poster’s problem.

Here is one of Joel’s photos. It shows the correct orientation of the shift plate. Tabs up, the long ramp to the right—passenger side in the U.S.

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Let's do the Time Warp again!

Richard O'Brien

[ashman40]

[davidw99]

"You should slide the entire shifter base farther LEFT"

There does not seem to be a lot of movement left or right since the holes for the bolts are oblong. A bit of front-rear movement can be had but not much left-right movement, correct?
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Dave

'73 Saturn Yellow Sports Bug that has undergone a full pan off restoration. "Herbert IV."

'67 Sedan. "Bellamy." Currently being "refreshed" and recently repainted.

[Fair-cooled]

Hello friends.
I really appreciate how much effort you all ( especially Tim and Ashman40 in this thread...but in no way limited to these two ideal compadres ) have put into helping me with this (very frustrating ) issue .

I am glad to have the correct orientation of the shift plate ascertained 😊✌🏼.
This seems to be an obvious essential in achieving any degree of correct shifting. As of my last post I have come to think that I have a bit more luck adjusting this plate while driving...taking a 13mm wrench with me and making adjustments every few kilometres, or less. In my case, it seems that I get better feedback off results by this method. I had spent a lot of time examining the shifter action with the shifter parts all clean, disassembled, and on my work bench, looking for clues to what I might be missing. Ashman40, your very excellent description of the workings of the shifter and shifter plate confirm my thoughts. Thank you greatly for such an in-depth explanation ...it seems that this particular post should be a benchmark for figuring this problem out.
Kudos and thanks .

I’ve been a bit under the weather these last few days, so I haven’t been working on my bug for a few days. I think my frustration level needed a break even if I hadn’t gotten sick. Emotional overload of the beetle variety if you catch my drift ( you do, I think ) .I will soon be back at the beetle, essentially starting from ground zero except with complete knowledge of A: where best to begin regarding the shifter plate position, and B: full understanding of the functionality of the gear selector mechanics. So I still have some degree of hope that I may not need a rebuilt transaxle. It seems most likely to me at this point, that I WILL need my transaxle rebuilt-replaced, but I’m not ready to accept that reality without further experimentation with the shifter plate.
BTW- I have learned a little bit about changes in shift plate design, that have occurred over the many years of beetle production. Mine has the “flat” or
“squared off...transversely “ type of plate, which I think is correct for my car. It seems like a better method of design could/may be helpful...it’s a bit difficult to move the shifter plate without moving the top plate, but this may simply be because I haven’t yet had success or my transaxle is frigged. Just idle thoughts, this last sentence. I DO find it difficult to judge properly wether or not my trouble is with shift plate adjustment or transaxle troubles. I have read in one thread of a forum member who bought a new transaxle only to discover that this wasn’t his trouble spot. So, more adjustments, and more thought is required on my end, before making such an expensive decision as replacing my transaxle .

So, thanks again friends. I happen to agree, at least to an extent, with davidw99 in his remark about the shifter plate slotting setup. I do realize though, that there must be sufficient room for lateral adjustment or this would have been changed. Back to step one of shifter plate adjustment. One thing I do wish to add to the discussion is that for me it is helpful to leave the shift rod access plate removed, and watching the action of the shift rod with the shifter movement. At the least this may help people to know for reasonably sure that at least the shifter ball is going correctly into the shift rod cup. At least it helped me eliminate this possibility. So off to the shift plate adjustment for Darren. Please, anyone/everyone, feel free in knowing that I will appreciate any thoughts on my current beetle dilemma. I think it was General Patton who famously said “I’ll be back !”. So will Darren. I’ll keep this thread updated as I progress along with this ( still possibly minor ) issue .
Happy, safe motoring friends
Darren.

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‘74 Super beetle, originally from California until 5 years ago.

Seize the day...not the Engine...

[Tim Donahoe]

Darren, post some photos of your shifter (the top and bottom), as well as the shift coupler in the back.

I’m wondering if something might be wrong with either setup.

Tim
_________________
Let's do the Time Warp again!

Richard O'Brien

[davidw99]

Darren, nice car.
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Dave

'73 Saturn Yellow Sports Bug that has undergone a full pan off restoration. "Herbert IV."

'67 Sedan. "Bellamy." Currently being "refreshed" and recently repainted.