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Rocky Mountain Westy Samba Member
Joined: April 17, 2008 Posts: 1031 Location: Fort Collins Colorado
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Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2022 5:11 pm Post subject: New Front Door Panel design. Community Input requested |
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Howdy Folks,
We have been continuing the quest to design and make new products for our beloved Vanagons. We think there is a lot of opportunity to improve the front passenger cockpit.
So with that said we have been getting into Thermoforming plastics. It has been a pretty steep learning curve. This form of manufacturing has some amazing potential. We look forward to bringing it to the Vanagon world. We have been kind of quiet about it because we didn't want to create a buzz till we were further through the learning curve.
We have a few products in the funnel now but the one I would like community input on are front door panels. A few years back, we designed and made these door pockets out of metal. Here is the link to those that aren't familiar.
https://vancafe.com/door-pocket-pair-with-speaker-mount/
I have these in my van and I love them. To be honest though, It is hard to make things out of metal that are contoured nice and blend in. For what these are and the additional speaker spot, I love them. That is probably why we still make them. Because they are time consuming and expensive to make and while $300 a pair may seem like a lot, there isn't a lot of room for profit there. This product is a great opportunity for Thermoforming. So when we started thinking about it, we went down the road of what would it look like to Thermoform a complete door panel? We could certainly mold in the door pocket that we appreciate so much. We could color code it to the van. We could upsize the speaker from 5.25 to 6.5 in size. Wait could we relocate the power window switches and add a usb charging port? How about a ground puddle light under the door pocket? Oh yeah and my biggest pet peeve with the existing flat ABS panels is the exposed fasteners. We can hide the fasteners too. Turns out, you can get all that into one door panel. We can also add contour and detail in the process and make them look a bit more modern.
Here are a couple pictures of the design so far. We may eliminate the vent in the lower back corner. I always thought it was part of the air duct but it is not, it just goes to the inside cavity of the door.
I would love comments, thoughts and feedback. What else might one add to the design and function? And of course the biggest question what would you pay for a set? They will likely be $500-600 per pair.
_________________ Rocky Mountain Westy Inc.
www.rockymountainwesty.com
970-310-3441
[email protected]
The Splitzgauer build (when I have time to work on it and update the thread)
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=497133 |
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djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32625 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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Rocky Mountain Westy Samba Member
Joined: April 17, 2008 Posts: 1031 Location: Fort Collins Colorado
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Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2022 5:28 pm Post subject: Re: New Front Door Panel design. Community Input requested |
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djkeev wrote: |
I appreciate the products that you bring to the market.
I am a daily driver of my Van, use it for work everyday.
I've no need for these door panels with pockets and certainly would never pay $500 for a pair of them.
Dave |
Thanks for your input. We are well aware that not every Vanagon owner is our target market on every product. _________________ Rocky Mountain Westy Inc.
www.rockymountainwesty.com
970-310-3441
[email protected]
The Splitzgauer build (when I have time to work on it and update the thread)
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=497133 |
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DuncanS Samba Member
Joined: October 17, 2013 Posts: 4583 Location: New Hampshire
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Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2022 5:34 pm Post subject: Re: New Front Door Panel design. Community Input requested |
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X a great many of what Dave said.
.
Since the fresh air vent at the bottom back corner of the door doesn't do anything, why not run your addition all the way back? A cup holder?
Vacuum forming such a large panel will take a large--expensive--machine and a lot of plastic. If you vacuum form just your added part then it would be a great deal less expensive to make and to ship. Since the bulk of us already have the panels, we can add them to our existing ones.
With a smaller--less than full size door panel--you could also make a variety of add ons that could meet a number of needs--besides cupholders, a recess in the bottom for courtesy lights, 12v power and UBS outlets, switches for stuff and so on.
Don't know, but one might have to open the door to swivel the seats. Hardly a deterrent.
Do it--And they will come.
Duncan |
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Rocky Mountain Westy Samba Member
Joined: April 17, 2008 Posts: 1031 Location: Fort Collins Colorado
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Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2022 5:47 pm Post subject: Re: New Front Door Panel design. Community Input requested |
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DuncanS wrote: |
X a great many of what Dave said.
.
Since the fresh air vent at the bottom back corner of the door doesn't do anything, why not run your addition all the way back? A cup holder?
Vacuum forming such a large panel will take a large--expensive--machine and a lot of plastic. If you vacuum form just your added part then it would be a great deal less expensive to make and to ship. Since the bulk of us already have the panels, we can add them to our existing ones.
With a smaller--less than full size door panel--you could also make a variety of add ons that could meet a number of needs--besides cupholders, a recess in the bottom for courtesy lights, 12v power and UBS outlets, switches for stuff and so on.
Don't know, but one might have to open the door to swivel the seats. Hardly a deterrent.
Do it--And they will come.
Duncan |
Yeah, we thought about that and may do that as well. I have the machine to do a 96"x 48" part so that isn't an issue. The storage and shipping is a consideration. To be honest, the material minimums are the killer. The good materials are 2500lbs minimums. Which is about 150 sets of these panels. So probably way more of just the pocket. The material also doesn't like sitting around so you kind of have to form it when you get it. I guess having 350 sets of door pockets around wouldn't be to bad...lol. We may make just the pocket first, we will see how it goes. Fortunately we have a CNC router and we can make our own molds.
There are just so many vans out there with beat up panels or the inexpensive ABS ones. We figure this will be a nice option for the complete upgrade in one part.
Your door panel is cool, I like the cup holder in front of the dash that is part of the trim. I might ask for your blessing to run with that idea. I never thought of it. _________________ Rocky Mountain Westy Inc.
www.rockymountainwesty.com
970-310-3441
[email protected]
The Splitzgauer build (when I have time to work on it and update the thread)
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=497133 |
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outcaststudios Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2015 Posts: 1732 Location: Maine
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Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2022 6:22 pm Post subject: Re: New Front Door Panel design. Community Input requested |
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nope. _________________ '88Doka JX td
'69 westy
(rip)couple bugs
(rip)three type III"s
(rip) '81 vanagon
a bunch of french stuff,and 9 motorcycles.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2573791 |
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SCM Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2011 Posts: 3118 Location: Bozeman MT
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Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2022 6:43 pm Post subject: Re: New Front Door Panel design. Community Input requested |
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I often consider removing the OEM pocket on my driver’s side door - the only thing in there is a tire pressure gage. I also don’t care to modernize anything very visible on my van - driving something that looks/feels old is fun for me.
But man do I hate being limited to small speakers that are halfway obscured by the sides of the dashboard. If your door panels allowed for better placement of larger speakers in a package that looked sleek and unobtrusive (no, or very slim pockets) I think that could be worthwhile. Bonus points if they allowed for the factory fabric inserts and chrome strips to be installed.
It would also be nice for some people if the power window switch could be installed in a way that’s more natural to operate (horizontal or diagonal like other cars).
But, I’ll most likely need to upsize my rims once my current 14” tires wear out. There’s just other things I’ll be saving/spending for before door panels. _________________ '91 Westfalia GL Automatic (GTA "Turbo" Rebuild w/Peloquin) and 2.3L GoWesty Engine |
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livethevanlife Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2015 Posts: 204 Location: La Paz, Baja California Sur
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Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2022 6:45 pm Post subject: Re: New Front Door Panel design. Community Input requested |
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I think it’s pretty neat, and will sell. $500 price point for a pair with all the added functionality is a fair price. A nice set of replacements will run you that much. _________________ www.LiveTheVanLife.com
www.VentureLibre.com
https://www.PeaceVans.com/baja
1991 Syncro Triple Knob Westfalia "Miki" 2.2WBX
1992 Syncro Triple Knob Tintop "Schnitzel" 1.9AAZ
1990 Syncro Rear Locker Doka Subi 2.2
1974 VW Thing 1835cc
1989 VW Carat
Last edited by livethevanlife on Tue Jun 07, 2022 8:32 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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SCM Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2011 Posts: 3118 Location: Bozeman MT
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Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2022 6:47 pm Post subject: Re: New Front Door Panel design. Community Input requested |
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Would this manufacturing process be suitable for making SA style grills or lightweight bumpers? _________________ '91 Westfalia GL Automatic (GTA "Turbo" Rebuild w/Peloquin) and 2.3L GoWesty Engine |
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Jennybenny Samba Member
Joined: May 12, 2019 Posts: 54 Location: NYC
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Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2022 7:04 pm Post subject: Re: New Front Door Panel design. Community Input requested |
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Hi mike
I’m not the market now having recently replaced my original panels with abs from a samba vendor because I don’t have the time or place (an apartment) to recreate the backer panel to re glue the old vinyl, reinforce the part that holds the window switches, etc but these look nice.
I think the sell at that price point depends on how the material feels. I had plastic repro panels on my old f100 and they felt like junk because they were cheap junk.
Bringing in more modern window switches and the like will sell - thinking of a GW type kit that is actually a pre-wired kit instead of parts and really good instructions. Imagine a one stop shop to eliminate the junker auto door locks and window switches while replacing your door cards?
I mean vanagonlife has a $800 center console I’ll buy. It fills a need I didn’t think I had.
And don’t short the dorky 80’s design look - there isnt a flowy line on the van.
Jason |
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SCM Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2011 Posts: 3118 Location: Bozeman MT
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Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2022 7:26 pm Post subject: Re: New Front Door Panel design. Community Input requested |
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livethevanlife wrote: |
Cheapos. Sorry Samba folk. $500 price point for a pair with all the added functionality is a fair price. A nice set of replacements will run you that much. |
I don’t think that’s fair. I don’t doubt that the price is in line with other options. It’s just that some of us prefer a more minimalist style when using our vans - no Trasharoos, rocket boxes, or elaborate storage options. Everything I need for 2+ weeks camping in my van fits in the factory cupboards and 2 duffel bags. _________________ '91 Westfalia GL Automatic (GTA "Turbo" Rebuild w/Peloquin) and 2.3L GoWesty Engine |
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skills@eurocarsplus Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007 Posts: 16879 Location: sticksville, ct.
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Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2022 7:40 pm Post subject: Re: New Front Door Panel design. Community Input requested |
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i have a love/hate thing with the factory map pocket being where I like to put my knee. i think that design would make it worse.
however if you want to make the ugliest grill on the planet available (the SA grill) i think you may be on to something....but having said that when they pop up for sale, they seem to linger forever. _________________
gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
Jake Raby wrote: |
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
Brian wrote: |
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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mikemtnbike Samba Member
Joined: March 26, 2015 Posts: 2796 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2022 8:19 pm Post subject: Re: New Front Door Panel design. Community Input requested |
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Seems similar to my EVC door panel. I love the pocket on it, spacious, in a space-precious environment this could be possibly priceless.
The hard part would be keeping the aesthetic of a “vanagon feel,” whatever that may really mean.
Thanks for sharing! _________________ 1991 Vanagon GL 2.1 AT Westfauxlia. "Frankie" Totaled https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=764510&highlight=carnage
1995 Eurovan Camper "Marzivan"
2020 GTI SE manual |
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Rocky Mountain Westy Samba Member
Joined: April 17, 2008 Posts: 1031 Location: Fort Collins Colorado
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ledogboy Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2005 Posts: 578 Location: Scappoose, OR / Oakland, CA
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Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2022 9:16 pm Post subject: Re: New Front Door Panel design. Community Input requested |
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I like the idea, and assuming the speaker mounting locations were robust and didn’t cause rattles, I think it would be a big improvement over my DIY speaker solutions to date. I would want them to have the vibe of the originals, just with the enhanced form & function. _________________ 1986 Westy Weekender
Now a full camper
1.8t Syncro conversion
Some people call him Maurice... |
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pnwkayaker Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2008 Posts: 920 Location: Sammamish, WA
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Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2022 9:18 pm Post subject: Re: New Front Door Panel design. Community Input requested |
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Hello Mike,
To answer your specific question, I've already replaced most of my van panels with ABS panels (and I kinda like the look of the exposed fasteners) so I wouldn't be interested - I think that's probably the main problem you're facing, many folks with warped panels already made the jump to ABS panels, so your potential market is shrinking rapidly (though it might still be big enough, don't know).
Perhaps you might consider different/alternate products (carving your own niche)? For example, do you think this process would allow for the recreation of the Deluxe Vanagon dash console (currently NLA)? This is the console with the folding map table. I'd be interested in a version that would fit in a 1987 dashboard (only version ever made requires to hack/trim it to somewhat fit in a 1987 van).
I'm sure there're other products that you could consider, seems that the thermoforming process provides for great flexibility and room for original new products too.
BTW, I have the RMW bumpers and rear tire carrier installed in my Syncro (along with the Tank), they're the bomb! _________________ 87 Syncro Westy EJ25 ("Tardis")
Seattle Meetup at Marymoor (link)
A collection of Simple Useful Mods (SUM) (link) |
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Rocky Mountain Westy Samba Member
Joined: April 17, 2008 Posts: 1031 Location: Fort Collins Colorado
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Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2022 9:20 pm Post subject: Re: New Front Door Panel design. Community Input requested |
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ledogboy wrote: |
I like the idea, and assuming the speaker mounting locations were robust and didn’t cause rattles, I think it would be a big improvement over my DIY speaker solutions to date. I would want them to have the vibe of the originals, just with the enhanced form & function. |
We will likely make a bracket to mount the speaker to the door. It is definitely in the early design phase. It will take a while to go through the prototype phase and material sourcing as well. I got a quote today on a 18 week lead time for the material I would like _________________ Rocky Mountain Westy Inc.
www.rockymountainwesty.com
970-310-3441
[email protected]
The Splitzgauer build (when I have time to work on it and update the thread)
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=497133 |
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Silverghost500 Samba Member
Joined: August 01, 2018 Posts: 1088 Location: Atlanta, GA
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Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2022 9:41 pm Post subject: Re: New Front Door Panel design. Community Input requested |
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I like the idea, and great to hear you're fairly far along in the R&D processes. Target price to move units would probably need to be somewhere $499 or less for a set. Depends on what margins you need for your efforts and wacky raw materials supply chain issues.
I do have a feeling that those who didn't have a choice but to go with the flat abs panels will probably convert to these when they see them in the wild. _________________ 1986 Volkswagen Vanagon Westfalia "Von Westy"
Honda K24A converversion-Road Testing Phase
3-Speed Automatic
Von Westy YouTube Channel
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbhyZYxJEQrUuLnMbLleeIA |
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hdenter Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2008 Posts: 2754 Location: San Luis Obispo, CA
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Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2022 11:40 pm Post subject: Re: New Front Door Panel design. Community Input requested |
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I can't stand the stock window switch location and don't like the relocation to the center option, either. I would go for a set if the switch was relocated and an arm rest was incorporated like the bay window vans have.
Hans _________________ '79 triple white convertible bug
'84 sunroof vanagon
'85 weekender |
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16CVs Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2004 Posts: 4026 Location: Redwood City, California
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Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2022 12:31 am Post subject: Re: New Front Door Panel design. Community Input requested |
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I think that the stock switch location is perfect. it is the only location that you would not have to reach for. If they had been made more ergonomic would have been good, but seeing what VW had to deal with space wise I think they nailed it.
I was able to get a good look at your pockets at SF and they are well designed and fill a need, there may be better use of space if they were plastic formed. I would make the bottom of it honey comb shaped so that dirt and liquid would drain out if spilled.
I, like others like to maintain a stock appearance, so maybe an inset that could be covered in a matching seat material may be an option. If there was a recess than a panel could be covered and recessed for stock flush look.
Trying to anticipate peoples wants is tough, one take away I took from dealing with Peter was not to vary far from stock if you want consistent sales. Stock never goes out of style.
Stacy _________________ 1987 Syncro Westfalia Triple knob (bastard)
1989 Syncro Tristar Triple knob "Swedish"
2013 Jetta Hybrid a true "Zwitter"
Samba member # 14980
Call anytime number 650 722 4914 .
Keep Your van running and upkept tastefully for the love of the hobby.
Don't let your van end up in an "abortions" thread. |
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