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michla Samba Member
Joined: January 17, 2003 Posts: 331 Location: Wasilla, AK (yes, there's drag racing up here !)
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Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 11:47 pm Post subject: reverse gear circlip install--transaxle question |
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I'm speaking of the reverse gear in the differential area of a Type 1 IRS trans, the one with the circlip under a dished --or Belville (convex) washer.
Unless the reverse gear shaft is out of the transmission so you can put it and the washer and circlip in a press, it's a real battle trying to compress the dished washer enough to get the circlip in it's groove ! That washer is thick and very stiff.
Does anybody have any tips or tricks how they get compressed that washer enough to get the circlip in it's groove? I thought of just using a flat washer(s) with just enough spacing to keep the circlip against the groove shoulder, but then again I would imagine that dished washer is there for a reason--probably to keep the thrust loads against the gear from moving the gear out and away from the shaft splines and popping the snap ring out of it's groove.
Anybody come up with a trick? it's a grunt of a job otherwise with the reverse gear shaft already installed/reverse gear removed. Unable to remove gear carrier at this time. |
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gears Samba Member
Joined: October 28, 2002 Posts: 4391 Location: Tamarack, Bend, Kailua
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Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 8:25 am Post subject: |
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That shaft should be serviced and reinstalled before general assembly. I think at this point, a flat washer of the correct thickness is the best option. Not the end of the world. _________________ aka Pablo, Geary
9.36 @ 146 in '86 Hot & Sticky
'90 Syncro Westy SVX
'87 Syncro GL 2.5
https://guardtransaxle.com |
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michla Samba Member
Joined: January 17, 2003 Posts: 331 Location: Wasilla, AK (yes, there's drag racing up here !)
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Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 9:49 am Post subject: |
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thanx G
the main reason I had to remove the reverse gear in the first place was to install Berg's GB1050 Pro Pinion Nut--which has a wider base flange that interferes with the reverse gear unless the gear removed. Once installed, that larger flange is underneath the reverse gear.
Since I'm draggin', the larger flanged base pinion nut is an excellent idea and worth the trouble but obviously I have to install the gear carrier sliding on the internal reverse gear and this tranny has another circlip at the back of the reverse shaft. So that has to be installed before inserting the gear carrier, shaft in place.
Next trans case I gusset this winter I'll find the older style reverse shaft with the reverse shaft locating bolt in the side of the case instead ! |
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gears Samba Member
Joined: October 28, 2002 Posts: 4391 Location: Tamarack, Bend, Kailua
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Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 11:09 am Post subject: |
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Ah yes .. the copycat pinion nut. Some comments on installing a Type II chromoly nut:
This can only be used on transaxles that originally come with a washer below the nut. The earlier large bearing transaxles must use the Type I nut.
The gear teeth on the shaft's reverse gear sometimes must be clearanced on the backside to avoid interference with the nut.
Install the complete reverse shaft, and then put the nut in place BEFORE installing the gear cluster. This way, the nut can be screwed on a few threads at a time as the pinion bearing is pressed into place.
The threads on pinion bearing and nut should be inspected under 20X magnifcation, and confirmed free of ANY thread defects, and all threads must be clean, clean, clean. The beginning thread is usually distorted, and should be cut away as much as possible with a sharp blade. All of this is to avoid nut seizure, which is common with threads of similar hardness. _________________ aka Pablo, Geary
9.36 @ 146 in '86 Hot & Sticky
'90 Syncro Westy SVX
'87 Syncro GL 2.5
https://guardtransaxle.com |
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Volks Wagen Samba Member
Joined: February 13, 2013 Posts: 2926 Location: Germany
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Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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gears wrote: |
All of this is to avoid nut seizure |
One of my girlfriends used to seize my nuts anytime we were in a crowd. I found it a bit surprising at first but there was something kind of cool about ordering a few beers at a crowded bar while she slid up close and locked on. I guess it takes all kinds. I realise it's not directly related to the thread topic, but I can't help myself with double entendres. Carry on. _________________ 1973 1303 with AB-motor - sporadic
reconstruction as time permits, 1986 ex-Bundeswehr Doka - on the road again.
I'm definitely, probably, the worlds greatest lover.
Aithníonn ciaróg ciaróg eile. |
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michla Samba Member
Joined: January 17, 2003 Posts: 331 Location: Wasilla, AK (yes, there's drag racing up here !)
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Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: |
This can only be used on transaxles that originally come with a washer below the nut. The earlier large bearing transaxles must use the Type I nut.
Install the complete reverse shaft, and then put the nut in place BEFORE installing the gear cluster. This way, the nut can be screwed on a few threads at a time as the pinion bearing is pressed into place. |
Thanks, very helpful suggestion especially about magnification, etc.
Using washer per GB instructions that come with the nut. Obviously this type of pinion nut CANNOT be used with earlier Type 1 transaxles that have the shoulder recess machined in the pinion bore at the differential side of the case.
I contemplated installing the nut after reverse gear shaft assembly installation, but I wanted to seat the pinion bearing as quickly as possible while the pinion case area was still warm as necessary not to gall the bore area (per service manual). To thread a little at a time as the pinion bearing was advanced would mean rapid case cooling and more wear as the pinion bearing assembly was drawn into the case slowly advancing the threads a little at a time.
Yes the threads were immaculately cleaned then green Loctite. 160 ft lbs, loosen then retorque to 160 again. Bearing was new; galling wasn't an issue, yet but I like your take on similar metals, makes sense.
Last edited by michla on Fri Jun 27, 2014 7:14 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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michla Samba Member
Joined: January 17, 2003 Posts: 331 Location: Wasilla, AK (yes, there's drag racing up here !)
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Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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Volks Wagen wrote: |
gears wrote: |
All of this is to avoid nut seizure |
One of my girlfriends used to seize my nuts anytime we were in a crowd. . |
So, you're telling us you don't have any nutz left ??? |
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johnnypan Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2007 Posts: 7431 Location: sackamenna
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Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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Volks Wagen wrote: |
gears wrote: |
All of this is to avoid nut seizure |
One of my girlfriends used to seize my nuts anytime we were in a crowd. I found it a bit surprising at first but there was something kind of cool about ordering a few beers at a crowded bar while she slid up close and locked on. I guess it takes all kinds. I realise it's not directly related to the thread topic, but I can't help myself with double entendres. Carry on. |
She'd do that to me once..eating solid food is a privilege, not a right.. |
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gears Samba Member
Joined: October 28, 2002 Posts: 4391 Location: Tamarack, Bend, Kailua
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Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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There were many cases of thread seizure when these nuts first came out. Most were because of swarf, hidden in the nut's threads (never properly cleaned after manufacture).
I misunderstood which type of nut you were using. The Type II nut replaces nut and washer, and is the type that may sometimes require clearancing (of reverse teeth).
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1107448.jpg _________________ aka Pablo, Geary
9.36 @ 146 in '86 Hot & Sticky
'90 Syncro Westy SVX
'87 Syncro GL 2.5
https://guardtransaxle.com |
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michla Samba Member
Joined: January 17, 2003 Posts: 331 Location: Wasilla, AK (yes, there's drag racing up here !)
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Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 12:53 am Post subject: |
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EUREKA !
I came up with an idea that worked:
I mig-welded a stud to the shaft being very careful not to "overweld the edge and diff is out and pinion and mainshaft covered while welding so welding splatter doesn't stick (can ruin a ring & pinion). Parts must be clean for good weld--use lacquer thinner to remove oils. Tack weld stud at first so you can move it to center, spin the reverse gear by hand observing how close to rotating center with the shaft correcting by pushing the stud to rotate on center then finish-weld carefully not to overheat shaft. Stud is 8 X 1.25 X 32mm length, at least grade 8 (many engine studs are grade 8). You don't want to use a stud any longer so as to not interfere with the rotating differential.
I used a short thick wall (sturdy) collar I found in my junk parts with a 22mm or .870 inside diameter with a slit cut out just wide enough for the circlip tangs to stick out. The collar compresses the belville (curved) washer enough to get the circlip in the groove using a heavy-duty thick flat washer at the other end of the collar and nut tighened just enough to compress the belville washer (not too much--you could break off the stud!)
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