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jtauxe 
Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2004
Posts: 5780
Location: Los Alamos, New Mexico
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 Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 4:40 pm Post subject: Suddenly running hot |
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As part of my preparation and detailing of a 1979 Transporter readying it for sale, this morning I cleaned up the engine compartment. In the course of cleaning, as is typical I bumped loose a hose here and a wire there. Got them all reattached, and the engine fired up fine. I took it out for a 10-minute drive to get the oil warmed up for changing, and when I got back the engine was unusually hot, though it runs and idles fine. Normally, the dipstick is cool to the touch, but it was really hot this time. Never seen that before.
I am running a 2.0-L GE fitted with a single Weber carb. It has run this way just fine since I got it about 1000 miles ago.
I've tried to trace down the usual suspects... vacuum leaks, for example. I find none. There are not many places to check on this carbureted engine.
I did not adjust timing or any other engine parameters.
What could be causing running hot all of a sudden?
_________________
John
"Travelling in a fried-out Kombi, on a hippie trail, head full of zombie..." - Colin Hay and Ron Strykert
http://vw.tauxe.net
1969 Transporter, 1971 Westfalia, 1976, 1977, 1976, 1977, 1971, 1973, 1977 Westfalias,
1979 Champagne Sunroof, 1974 Westfalia Automatic, 1979 Transporter, 1972 Sportsmobile, 1973 Transporter Wild Westerner, 1974 Westfalia parts bus, 1975 Mexican single cab *FOR SALE*, 1978 Irish 4-door double cab RHD
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Danwvw
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Joined: July 31, 2012
Posts: 8892
Location: Oregon Coast
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jtauxe
Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2004
Posts: 5780
Location: Los Alamos, New Mexico
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| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Danwvw wrote: |
| Check the timing, see if it is advancing! |
Well, the distributor is clamped down tight, but I guess it does not hurt to check...
The timing seemed slightly advanced, sitting at 32 BTDC. I moved it to the mark on the timing scale at 28 deg. We'll see how things go.
Q: Is there an altitude correction to be made for timing? I live at 7300 ft (2225 m) elevation.
_________________
John
"Travelling in a fried-out Kombi, on a hippie trail, head full of zombie..." - Colin Hay and Ron Strykert
http://vw.tauxe.net
1969 Transporter, 1971 Westfalia, 1976, 1977, 1976, 1977, 1971, 1973, 1977 Westfalias,
1979 Champagne Sunroof, 1974 Westfalia Automatic, 1979 Transporter, 1972 Sportsmobile, 1973 Transporter Wild Westerner, 1974 Westfalia parts bus, 1975 Mexican single cab *FOR SALE*, 1978 Irish 4-door double cab RHD
Last edited by jtauxe on Sun Jun 29, 2014 7:41 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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curtis4085
Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2011
Posts: 4806
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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Is the egr blocked off? Possible big leak. Experienced this recently myself. Luckily I had a LM-2 meter and caught it within seconds.
Also check for loose valve cover. Big vacuum leak if the gaskets not seated.
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Special Thanks to:
Headflow Masters - Vista, CA
www.headflowmasters.com |
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SGKent
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Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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Is the fan guard on? If not check to see if the fan ingested a rag etc.
Check the flaps to make sure they open all the way. |
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jtauxe
Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2004
Posts: 5780
Location: Los Alamos, New Mexico
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| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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| SGKent wrote: |
Is the fan guard on? If not check to see if the fan ingested a rag etc.
Check the flaps to make sure they open all the way. |
Fan guard intact. No rags.
Cooling flaps -- also worth a check, esp. since I just installed a thermostat.
_________________
John
"Travelling in a fried-out Kombi, on a hippie trail, head full of zombie..." - Colin Hay and Ron Strykert
http://vw.tauxe.net
1969 Transporter, 1971 Westfalia, 1976, 1977, 1976, 1977, 1971, 1973, 1977 Westfalias,
1979 Champagne Sunroof, 1974 Westfalia Automatic, 1979 Transporter, 1972 Sportsmobile, 1973 Transporter Wild Westerner, 1974 Westfalia parts bus, 1975 Mexican single cab *FOR SALE*, 1978 Irish 4-door double cab RHD
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51124
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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| jtauxe wrote: |
| I just installed a thermostat. |
Hmmmm.... and the lower sled tins?, maybe a check for binding linkage is in order.
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Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
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Danwvw
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Joined: July 31, 2012
Posts: 8892
Location: Oregon Coast
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| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 10:17 pm Post subject: |
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32' dynamic that's with everything hooked up and engine reved to 3400 RPM or So? It may be retarded! That would sure cause heat! It should be about 40' Advance if it's the 205 Distributor they came with. It should drop back to 7.5' Degrees or so at Idle. http://www.oldvolkshome.com/ignition.htm#B7679
Add the 7.5' static+10'Vacuum+22.5'Centrifugal=40' See the OldVolksHome Link ref. above "Distributor: VW 021-905-205P, Bosch 0231 168 005 > 022-905-205S, 0231 170 093 Note: 0231 170 093 dist primarily used on California Late 1976-1978 and all Federal 1979 Models".
It could run as high as 43' or as low as 39' full advance no load at 3400 If I read the reference correctly.
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Last edited by Danwvw on Sun Jun 29, 2014 10:50 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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old DKP driver
Samba Member
Joined: March 30, 2005
Posts: 4145
Location: Los Gatos,Ca.
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| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 10:26 pm Post subject: overheating |
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perhaps The thermostat cable is hanging up in the tin before it is hooked
to the flap crossbar.
Look in the hole where the cable comes through the tin.
my $0.02
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curtis4085
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Joined: July 22, 2011
Posts: 4806
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 4:43 am Post subject: |
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| Danwvw wrote: |
32' dynamic that's with everything hooked up and engine reved to 3400 RPM or So? It may be retarded! That would sure cause heat! It should be about 40' Advance if it's the 205 Distributor they came with. It should drop back to 7.5' Degrees or so at Idle. http://www.oldvolkshome.com/ignition.htm#B7679
Add the 7.5' static+10'Vacuum+22.5'Centrifugal=40' See the OldVolksHome Link ref. above "Distributor: VW 021-905-205P, Bosch 0231 168 005 > 022-905-205S, 0231 170 093 Note: 0231 170 093 dist primarily used on California Late 1976-1978 and all Federal 1979 Models".
It could run as high as 43' or as low as 39' full advance no load at 3400 If I read the reference correctly. |
Set timing with vacuum hose off and max advance all in 3500 rpm. Dial it to 30*btdc. Make sure your engine at operating temp when doing this.
_________________
Special Thanks to:
Headflow Masters - Vista, CA
www.headflowmasters.com |
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jtauxe
Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2004
Posts: 5780
Location: Los Alamos, New Mexico
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:33 am Post subject: |
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| curtis4085 wrote: |
| Danwvw wrote: |
32' dynamic that's with everything hooked up and engine reved to 3400 RPM or So? It may be retarded! That would sure cause heat! It should be about 40' Advance if it's the 205 Distributor they came with. It should drop back to 7.5' Degrees or so at Idle. http://www.oldvolkshome.com/ignition.htm#B7679
Add the 7.5' static+10'Vacuum+22.5'Centrifugal=40' See the OldVolksHome Link ref. above "Distributor: VW 021-905-205P, Bosch 0231 168 005 > 022-905-205S, 0231 170 093 Note: 0231 170 093 dist primarily used on California Late 1976-1978 and all Federal 1979 Models".
It could run as high as 43' or as low as 39' full advance no load at 3400 If I read the reference correctly. |
Set timing with vacuum hose off and max advance all in 3500 rpm. Dial it to 30*btdc. Make sure your engine at operating temp when doing this. |
I obviously should have mentioned the type of distributor... it's an 009, so it has no vacuum advance.
I'll warm it up and put the advance back to 32 degrees BTDC. I don't think that had changed anyway, and would not be the cause of the sudden heating.
| old DKP driver wrote: |
perhaps The thermostat cable is hanging up in the tin before it is hooked
to the flap crossbar.
Look in the hole where the cable comes through the tin.
my $0.02 |
Good thinking, but the thermostat and flaps are working as intended.
I'll be taking it out for a drive again today, rather gingerly, to see if I can reproduce the problem.
_________________
John
"Travelling in a fried-out Kombi, on a hippie trail, head full of zombie..." - Colin Hay and Ron Strykert
http://vw.tauxe.net
1969 Transporter, 1971 Westfalia, 1976, 1977, 1976, 1977, 1971, 1973, 1977 Westfalias,
1979 Champagne Sunroof, 1974 Westfalia Automatic, 1979 Transporter, 1972 Sportsmobile, 1973 Transporter Wild Westerner, 1974 Westfalia parts bus, 1975 Mexican single cab *FOR SALE*, 1978 Irish 4-door double cab RHD
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jtauxe
Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2004
Posts: 5780
Location: Los Alamos, New Mexico
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:36 am Post subject: |
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Interestingly, the overheating problem seems to have gone away. I suppose as I futzed around with vacuum hoses and timing and such I must have fixed whatever was wrong. It's nice that it is solved, but not nice that I never did determine the exact cause. :k Oh, well, sometimes you just have to roll with it and be attentive to things as you go.
For now, I'm good.
_________________
John
"Travelling in a fried-out Kombi, on a hippie trail, head full of zombie..." - Colin Hay and Ron Strykert
http://vw.tauxe.net
1969 Transporter, 1971 Westfalia, 1976, 1977, 1976, 1977, 1971, 1973, 1977 Westfalias,
1979 Champagne Sunroof, 1974 Westfalia Automatic, 1979 Transporter, 1972 Sportsmobile, 1973 Transporter Wild Westerner, 1974 Westfalia parts bus, 1975 Mexican single cab *FOR SALE*, 1978 Irish 4-door double cab RHD
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curtis4085
Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2011
Posts: 4806
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 5:10 am Post subject: |
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If I set my max advance to 32*btdc rpm all in I start to build heat, if I set it to 30*btdc it runs lot cooler.
Idle timing for me sit 5-6* btdc. Having a improved cam I run a 13.5 AFM she idles smooth.
_________________
Special Thanks to:
Headflow Masters - Vista, CA
www.headflowmasters.com |
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 7:39 am Post subject: |
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| curtis4085 wrote: |
If I set my max advance to 32*btdc rpm all in I start to build heat, if I set it to 30*btdc it runs lot cooler.
Idle timing for me sit 5-6* btdc. Having a improved cam I run a 13.5 AFM she idles smooth. |
we get the same. Power starts to fall off at 29 degrees but 28 - 29 is cooler than 30 to 32. These 2L buses just can't shed the heat they can make so they have to be detuned. We'd see more power at 32 degrees and a leaner AFM but we'd also be replacing heads and pistons more frequently too. Shame VW didn't build in 10 - 15% more cooling. |
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