Engle 120 spring pressure

deadkombi · Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 7:52 pm Post subject: Engle 120 spring pressure

I've looked everywhere for an indication of seat and nose pressure for suitable springs for an engle 120. To add to the confusion engle sell 2 cam kits with both single and double springs available. I have CB 044 heads with single springs that offer 100 seat and 175lb nose, and I also ordered their double springs standard in 044 which give 140lb seat and 260lb nose, with correct installed height and correct lift for the cam. RPM limited to 6500.

[email protected] · Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 7:58 pm Post subject: Re: Engle 120 spring pressure

you need dual springs with the W120.
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deadkombi · Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 11:06 pm Post subject:

Thanks John, yes dual it is, initially I was going to use a 110 that's why I have the single HD springs. I was just checking pressure to see what was going on. Are the pressures in the CB duals OK, or what should I be aiming for?

modok · Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:01 am Post subject: Re: Engle 120 spring pressure

deadkombi · Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 4:47 am Post subject:

So are the Cb duals ok with 140lb seat and 260lb nose or are they a bit high? If you guys know of better springs I would be keen to know, because I can't find any info.

Thanks for your help....

Quokka42 · Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:08 am Post subject:

There's nothing in between really. You can get singles with over 200lb compressed, but they will have harmonics which will launch the lifter off the cam and the valve off the rocker when revs get much over 5000rpm. You only need to knock a tip of a lobe off the cam once for it, and probably other parts, to be toast.
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[email protected] · Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:11 am Post subject:

I ran HD single springs in my 2276 with a W120 cam and 1.25's without any problems.
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jfats808 · Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:29 am Post subject:

Scat dual springs are probably the "softest" of the performance dual springs, then bugpack 4046 ( I think thats the number). I would not run singles with a w120 and 1.25s imo.
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[email protected] · Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:49 am Post subject:

I would not even run singles with a W110 and 1.25s, IMO this also requires dual springs.
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jpaull · Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 4:36 pm Post subject: Single Springs

My buddy and I built a 1914 using CB044's with Single High Rev springs and Engle 120 and 1:1 rockers. Adrian @ Headflowmasters set up the heads and my buddy has been running this engine for years. If you are not revving the engine to 6500k, then running just enough spring pressure needed has a advantage of more horsepower/efficiency. I could set the heads on the bench, and using both hands push the valve half way open.

If you run it close, you have to have respect for the proper redline rpm's for your set-up. A nice addition would be titanium retainers and cb lightweight lifters.

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raul arrese · Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:11 pm Post subject:

Why is this subject always popping up ?? why are people so into trying to run singles on a performance cam ?? why even put that cam in there ?? yes you can keep your rpm's down and safe but what is the point and why did you even build a performance engine ?? and I don't know about you guys but doesn't everyone love to rev the shit out of there engines once in a while ?? that's why I build them ... and what if you get froggy one day and you rev it a little high , now your floating and beating up your cam , lifters and valve train ?? duals are the way unless I build a stock motor...

jpaull · Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:53 pm Post subject:

raul arrese · Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:02 pm Post subject:

[email protected] · Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:08 pm Post subject:

If an engine W120 stops pulling at 6k you have something seriously wrong with your engine.

If you run HD single springs with cams like this you'll wreck your heads. If you don't believe me, go ahead and do it.
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vwracerdave · Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:13 pm Post subject:

You can have valve float at 3000 RPM's. Valve float also happens from how quickly you rev an engine not just how high you rev it. Far more damage is done from not having enough spring then from having too much.

IMHO a W-120 cam needs dual sprigs. Many years ago I built a 1756 with a W-110, 1.1 rockers, and dual springs. I put 50,000 miles and hundreds of 1/4 mile passes on the engine before I sold it, and never had any problems with the valve train.
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TSPayne · Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:15 pm Post subject:

I set my dual springs with 150 pounds seat pressure at a 1.600" install height. I am running an Engle 120.

deadkombi · Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:20 pm Post subject:

Thanks a lot for the info, I appreciate all your responses.

I have had the heads machined to run duals. Question is what pressures should the springs be?

modok · Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:22 pm Post subject:

[email protected] · Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:35 pm Post subject:

People are retarded sometimes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvP9Pe0a9DY&feature=share&list=PL3404CE82FBA3784E

I'm pretty sure sure this is a W120 cam in Mark's (RIP) engine in this legendary video. The W120 was a favorite of his in his engine recipes, it just works very well.
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jpaull · Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:50 pm Post subject:

[email protected] wrote:

If an engine W120 stops pulling at 6k you have something seriously wrong with your engine.

If you run HD single springs with cams like this you'll wreck your heads. If you don't believe me, go ahead and do it.

John, you have lots of very good information from many posts on here. And I understand that as a VW parts supplier you need to error on the side of safety.

Your aircooled.net website says the powerband is 2,000-6,000 with 1:1 rockers, and you can expect to top out at 6300 with 1:25. So to say there is something wrong with a engine that has a 120 cam and 1:1 rockers topping out at 6k might lend you to make some changes in the language of your website if that's how you truly feel. And My buddies engine we built with 120/1:1's has lasted 7 years of use on a daily basis. No wrecked heads. Pulled hard to 6k, but nothing more.

http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Engle-W120-Type-1-Camshaft-1-1-or-1-25-Rockers-p/e6120.htm

As quoted from aircooled.net:
[i]"This cam really needs some port work and/or larger displacement to work properly. Expect a powerband of 2000-6000 RPMs, the more headwork and carburetion the better the low end will be. If you use 1.25 rockers, you will extend the top end to 6300 or so"


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