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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21474 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2014 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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Abscate wrote: |
There is a lot of information overload on EVAP canisters out there.
If your system has all the hoses and clamps intact, the EVAP canister is not holed, then your system is recycling 95% of the gas fumes or better, even with old activated carbon. IMHO, it's a waste of time to chase the incremental last bit of vapor with some of the schemes proposed. |
I think you misunderstand what people are "chasing". No one is chasing minute efficiency from their canisters.
Those who are looking for carbon are generally tjose who had metal cartridges that have rusted through....about 98% common.....and therefore have no carbon at all.
Also.....no....just having your lines hooked up when your carbon is permanently saturated....does nothing....and I have...and I guarantee many others....have failed an emmissions check because of it.
Once the small pores in the carbon are filled ....which will be permanent without recycling.....fuel instead condenses on the outside of the carbon blocking the rest of the available pores. You get liquid fuel in the carbon.
So instead of a controlled release....you get a rich purge when vacuum is pulling through it.
you can carry close to a liter of wet, non-absorbed fuel from the filler overflow pipe on a bus or type 3/4 size cannister.
That will ruin your day if you cant purge it during running, and before an emissions test. This overflow fuel and/or condensed fuel is what causes the rust in the metal, cannisters.
Also for the record.....powdered activated charcoal has between 450-500 square meters of surface area per gram. Granular has a little more than half that area but has larger pores to allow better access for liquids.
While any carbon does something....and some is better than none. .....for those poor bas5arrs that have strict emmissions. ...the difference in carbon type can be huge over time. Ray |
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Tcash Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011 Posts: 12844 Location: San Jose, California, USA
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Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2014 8:24 am Post subject: |
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I posted this, because I found it interesting that there is a 30k mile service interval for the Evap. canister.
I do not recall ever seeing a service interval for a Evap. canister.
I can only speculate that the reason for this is do to saturation
In my experience when the canister becomes saturated it will cause a fail as Raven stated. When the Evap purges it causes a rich condition.
One of the canisters I pulled off, you could shake it and hear liquid fuel inside of it.
Merry Christmas
Tcash |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21474 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2014 9:23 am Post subject: |
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Tcash wrote: |
I posted this, because I found it interesting that there is a 30k mile service interval for the Evap. canister.
I do not recall ever seeing a service interval for a Evap. canister.
I can only speculate that the reason for this is do to saturation
In my experience when the canister becomes saturated it will cause a fail as Raven stated. When the Evap purges it causes a rich condition.
One of the canisters I pulled off, you could shake it and hear liquid fuel inside of it.
Merry Christmas
Tcash |
Some of the newer watercooled car canisters have a longer interval simply because of how they are built and the fact that if they are in the right location that cannot be flooded with filler neck overflow.
But yes....the 30k interval has always been ther on the older cars...just poorly posted. Its iin some of the emission books in owners manuals...some.....and I always heard this from dealers during high school and college in the 80s. They knew.
Ray |
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SixStringMadMan Samba Member
Joined: December 02, 2011 Posts: 263 Location: Roseville, CA
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21474 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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Technically it will work with a few bits and pieces to adapt...but typically its a totally different form. Usually the newer ones from the mid 90s on are a cylinder about 3-4" in diameter and about 10" tall. Ray |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22568 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 3:46 am Post subject: |
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force3g wrote: |
To bad you did not roll it a little further toward you when you took the picture so you could read the part number. It looks like 175-201-801-A.
My bad Tcash, the pic is a couple of years old. You are correct on the part number. |
No worries. It's legal to roll your own parts now in many states. _________________ .ssS! |
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PITApan Samba Member
Joined: November 09, 2014 Posts: 1058 Location: Northern Colorado
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Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 10:12 am Post subject: Re: Carbon Canister Refresh - Howto |
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Thanks TC.
I don't like the threaded plug. Better solution is a knockout cover for electrical boxes. These cover an un-needed knockout. Get 1". They are metal with snap-in prongs. probably have to buy a 5 pack but cheap and handy for other holes in flat sheet metal (they also come in 3/4"). Same routine with the sealant on this project.
http://www.amazon.com/Halex-96073-Count-1-Inch-Knock-Out/dp/B00310QVEU |
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LEE 64 Samba Member
Joined: December 13, 2010 Posts: 166 Location: WV
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Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 4:33 pm Post subject: . |
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will a new canister get rid of gas smell inside bus ? |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 4:39 pm Post subject: Re: . |
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LEE 64 wrote: |
will a new canister get rid of gas smell inside bus ? |
probably not. That usually comes from leaking hoses, tank filler hose, neck, or sender gasket depending on year. What have you replaced? _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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jtauxe Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2004 Posts: 5778 Location: Los Alamos, New Mexico
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Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 4:42 pm Post subject: Re: . |
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LEE 64 wrote: |
will a new canister get rid of gas smell inside bus ? |
What Steve Kent said, but also, a new canister is not what is needed (unless it is broken) -- just new GAC in the canister. _________________ John
"Travelling in a fried-out Kombi, on a hippie trail, head full of zombie..." - Colin Hay and Ron Strykert
http://vw.tauxe.net
1969 Transporter, 1971 Westfalia, 1976, 1977, 1976, 1977, 1971, 1973, 1977 Westfalias,
1979 Champagne Sunroof, 1974 Westfalia Automatic, 1979 Transporter, 1972 Sportsmobile, 1973 Transporter Wild Westerner, 1974 Westfalia parts bus, 1975 Mexican single cab *FOR SALE*, 1978 Irish 4-door double cab RHD
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LEE 64 Samba Member
Joined: December 13, 2010 Posts: 166 Location: WV
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Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 4:49 pm Post subject: . |
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whats a sender gasket ? |
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SixStringMadMan Samba Member
Joined: December 02, 2011 Posts: 263 Location: Roseville, CA
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Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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I still haven't had a chance to put my hands on the right kind of pellets for a refill, just a wee bit too busy. Starting to wonder if I really need to worry about this on my '78 to pass smog, kinda hesitant to cut open my plastic canister for a refresh. _________________ 1978 Kombi
http://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-10020.htm |
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PITApan Samba Member
Joined: November 09, 2014 Posts: 1058 Location: Northern Colorado
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Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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SixStringMadMan wrote: |
I still haven't had a chance to put my hands on the right kind of pellets for a refill, just a wee bit too busy. Starting to wonder if I really need to worry about this on my '78 to pass smog, kinda hesitant to cut open my plastic canister for a refresh. |
Probably OK on smog so long as you pass visual---everything there. The thing would need to be flooded to dump enough gas into the intake to affect mixture. Likewise the motor isn't counting on it contributing to intake flow so if it's clogged same difference. |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21474 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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PITApan wrote: |
SixStringMadMan wrote: |
I still haven't had a chance to put my hands on the right kind of pellets for a refill, just a wee bit too busy. Starting to wonder if I really need to worry about this on my '78 to pass smog, kinda hesitant to cut open my plastic canister for a refresh. |
Probably OK on smog so long as you pass visual---everything there. The thing would need to be flooded to dump enough gas into the intake to affect mixture. Likewise the motor isn't counting on it contributing to intake flow so if it's clogged same difference. |
There is a difference in the absorbancy of differnt granule types and sizes. ....its significant. But I would tend fo agree that having any of them will be enough difference.
The trick is that if you use granules finer than what came in it....now that you have no problems changing the charcoal filling...dont wait a zillion miles to replace it again.
On very high mileage carbon where its just saturated.....and this is if the canister is even still passing purge air through it (they, can get so, packed that they really cant flow too, much, air)......its a really easy way to have high hydrocarbons on emmissions testing.....been there and done that. Its why I started testing back when I lived in Atlanta.
Perfect running car....new engine....repeate fail on tailpipe sniffer. High hydrocarbons. Totally saturated carbon cannister.
Good guy at the shop where I tested the car....noted that not only should the car be well warmed up....but make sure the tank is full...and drive it on the highway for, about 30 minutes then pull right in.
That really helped......just barely passed.....but the WTF meter in my head went off.....and asking a dealer mechanic....he noted that it sounded like a rich purge from the carbon cannister. His was the first notation that 30-50k miles is sometimes it for the canister.
OBD-1 VW cars started comingwith a vacuum sensor on the canister vacuum system to trigger code that notes when the canister is no longer effective. Ray |
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rattyray7 Samba Member
Joined: June 08, 2015 Posts: 1 Location: Enterprise, AL
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Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2015 5:54 pm Post subject: bypass it? |
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If I live in an area that doesn't do smog testing, could I just remove the whole canister system and bypass it?
Is it a useful system, more specifically, should I WANT to keep it? |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50254
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Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2015 6:25 pm Post subject: Re: bypass it? |
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rattyray7 wrote: |
If I live in an area that doesn't do smog testing, could I just remove the whole canister system and bypass it?
Is it a useful system, more specifically, should I WANT to keep it? |
There really isn't much of a down side to keeping your carbon canister working order. One reason to keep it is that we all share this planet and need to do our individual share to reduce our pollution foot print. I personally like the idea of living without asthma, silicosis, and a bunch of other lung diseases. |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51057 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2015 6:30 pm Post subject: Re: bypass it? |
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Wildthings wrote: |
rattyray7 wrote: |
If I live in an area that doesn't do smog testing, could I just remove the whole canister system and bypass it?
Is it a useful system, more specifically, should I WANT to keep it? |
There really isn't much of a down side to keeping your carbon canister working order. One reason to keep it is that we all share this planet and need to do our individual share to reduce our pollution foot print. I personally like the idea of living without asthma, silicosis, and a bunch of other lung diseases. |
Agreed, it's completely passive and doesn't effect performance in any way, why not maintain it? Whether you believe the global warming hype or not I just hate having gas I paid for flying away into the atmosphere, if I bought it I'd rather burn it myself
There's no downside to keeping it at all. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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stwesty Samba Member
Joined: May 10, 2015 Posts: 128 Location: Vancouver, Canada
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Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2015 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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Does anyone have a diagram that shows where to plug the canister into the air filter unit of a dual-carb 1974? _________________ 1974 Westfalia, automatic, dual-carb |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51057 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2015 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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stwesty wrote: |
Does anyone have a diagram that shows where to plug the canister into the air filter unit of a dual-carb 1974? |
There's 2 12mm nipples on the aircleaner, one's on the inlet snorkel (that's for the crankcase breather), the other one that you want is on the side of the actual center box the filter lives in. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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Greg in GA Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2011 Posts: 436 Location: Georgia
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Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 6:53 am Post subject: |
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Should the charcoal canister be air tight except at the inlets/outlets? IE if you cover all openings and slightly pressurize the canister, should there be air escaping elsewhere? _________________ 1969 Beetle
1974 Westy 1800cc FI conversion, L62H
Need a really good mechanic for your VW bus? Consider making an appointment with Colin (Amskeptic) next time he passes thru your area. |
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