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Evaporative Emission Control EVAP/Charcoal, Carbon Canister
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2014 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Abscate wrote:
There is a lot of information overload on EVAP canisters out there.

If your system has all the hoses and clamps intact, the EVAP canister is not holed, then your system is recycling 95% of the gas fumes or better, even with old activated carbon. IMHO, it's a waste of time to chase the incremental last bit of vapor with some of the schemes proposed.



I think you misunderstand what people are "chasing". No one is chasing minute efficiency from their canisters.

Those who are looking for carbon are generally tjose who had metal cartridges that have rusted through....about 98% common.....and therefore have no carbon at all.

Also.....no....just having your lines hooked up when your carbon is permanently saturated....does nothing....and I have...and I guarantee many others....have failed an emmissions check because of it.

Once the small pores in the carbon are filled ....which will be permanent without recycling.....fuel instead condenses on the outside of the carbon blocking the rest of the available pores. You get liquid fuel in the carbon.

So instead of a controlled release....you get a rich purge when vacuum is pulling through it.
you can carry close to a liter of wet, non-absorbed fuel from the filler overflow pipe on a bus or type 3/4 size cannister.
That will ruin your day if you cant purge it during running, and before an emissions test. This overflow fuel and/or condensed fuel is what causes the rust in the metal, cannisters.

Also for the record.....powdered activated charcoal has between 450-500 square meters of surface area per gram. Granular has a little more than half that area but has larger pores to allow better access for liquids.

While any carbon does something....and some is better than none. .....for those poor bas5arrs that have strict emmissions. ...the difference in carbon type can be huge over time. Ray
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Tcash
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2014 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I posted this, because I found it interesting that there is a 30k mile service interval for the Evap. canister.
I do not recall ever seeing a service interval for a Evap. canister.
I can only speculate that the reason for this is do to saturation
In my experience when the canister becomes saturated it will cause a fail as Raven stated. When the Evap purges it causes a rich condition.
One of the canisters I pulled off, you could shake it and hear liquid fuel inside of it.
Merry Christmas
Tcash
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2014 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tcash wrote:
I posted this, because I found it interesting that there is a 30k mile service interval for the Evap. canister.
I do not recall ever seeing a service interval for a Evap. canister.
I can only speculate that the reason for this is do to saturation
In my experience when the canister becomes saturated it will cause a fail as Raven stated. When the Evap purges it causes a rich condition.
One of the canisters I pulled off, you could shake it and hear liquid fuel inside of it.
Merry Christmas
Tcash


Some of the newer watercooled car canisters have a longer interval simply because of how they are built and the fact that if they are in the right location that cannot be flooded with filler neck overflow.

But yes....the 30k interval has always been ther on the older cars...just poorly posted. Its iin some of the emission books in owners manuals...some.....and I always heard this from dealers during high school and college in the 80s. They knew.
Ray
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SixStringMadMan
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Found this link online and hoping it may help. Looks like VW uses the same cannister for many different model vehicles. $51.60 is a little expensive, but if you can order it, it comes full of pellets, and you can just bolt it in place of the old one it may be worth a few dollars more....

http://parts.vw.com/vwparts/?searchText=175-201-801-A&action=searchAllCatalogs

Few bucks cheaper at a local VW store by me, provided its the same thing.

http://rosevillevwparts.com $46.44
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Technically it will work with a few bits and pieces to adapt...but typically its a totally different form. Usually the newer ones from the mid 90s on are a cylinder about 3-4" in diameter and about 10" tall. Ray
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Abscate Premium Member
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 3:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

force3g wrote:
To bad you did not roll it a little further toward you when you took the picture so you could read the part number. It looks like 175-201-801-A.

My bad Tcash, the pic is a couple of years old. You are correct on the part number.


No worries. It's legal to roll your own parts now in many states.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 10:12 am    Post subject: Re: Carbon Canister Refresh - Howto Reply with quote

Tcash wrote:
Carbon Canister Refresh - Howto


Thanks TC.

I don't like the threaded plug. Better solution is a knockout cover for electrical boxes. These cover an un-needed knockout. Get 1". They are metal with snap-in prongs. probably have to buy a 5 pack but cheap and handy for other holes in flat sheet metal (they also come in 3/4"). Same routine with the sealant on this project.

http://www.amazon.com/Halex-96073-Count-1-Inch-Knock-Out/dp/B00310QVEU
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LEE 64
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 4:33 pm    Post subject: . Reply with quote

will a new canister get rid of gas smell inside bus ?
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SGKent Premium Member
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 4:39 pm    Post subject: Re: . Reply with quote

LEE 64 wrote:
will a new canister get rid of gas smell inside bus ?


probably not. That usually comes from leaking hoses, tank filler hose, neck, or sender gasket depending on year. What have you replaced?
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 4:42 pm    Post subject: Re: . Reply with quote

LEE 64 wrote:
will a new canister get rid of gas smell inside bus ?

What Steve Kent said, but also, a new canister is not what is needed (unless it is broken) -- just new GAC in the canister.
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LEE 64
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 4:49 pm    Post subject: . Reply with quote

whats a sender gasket ?
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SixStringMadMan
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still haven't had a chance to put my hands on the right kind of pellets for a refill, just a wee bit too busy. Starting to wonder if I really need to worry about this on my '78 to pass smog, kinda hesitant to cut open my plastic canister for a refresh.
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PITApan
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SixStringMadMan wrote:
I still haven't had a chance to put my hands on the right kind of pellets for a refill, just a wee bit too busy. Starting to wonder if I really need to worry about this on my '78 to pass smog, kinda hesitant to cut open my plastic canister for a refresh.


Probably OK on smog so long as you pass visual---everything there. The thing would need to be flooded to dump enough gas into the intake to affect mixture. Likewise the motor isn't counting on it contributing to intake flow so if it's clogged same difference.
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PITApan wrote:
SixStringMadMan wrote:
I still haven't had a chance to put my hands on the right kind of pellets for a refill, just a wee bit too busy. Starting to wonder if I really need to worry about this on my '78 to pass smog, kinda hesitant to cut open my plastic canister for a refresh.


Probably OK on smog so long as you pass visual---everything there. The thing would need to be flooded to dump enough gas into the intake to affect mixture. Likewise the motor isn't counting on it contributing to intake flow so if it's clogged same difference.



There is a difference in the absorbancy of differnt granule types and sizes. ....its significant. But I would tend fo agree that having any of them will be enough difference.

The trick is that if you use granules finer than what came in it....now that you have no problems changing the charcoal filling...dont wait a zillion miles to replace it again.

On very high mileage carbon where its just saturated.....and this is if the canister is even still passing purge air through it (they, can get so, packed that they really cant flow too, much, air)......its a really easy way to have high hydrocarbons on emmissions testing.....been there and done that. Its why I started testing back when I lived in Atlanta.

Perfect running car....new engine....repeate fail on tailpipe sniffer. High hydrocarbons. Totally saturated carbon cannister.

Good guy at the shop where I tested the car....noted that not only should the car be well warmed up....but make sure the tank is full...and drive it on the highway for, about 30 minutes then pull right in.
That really helped......just barely passed.....but the WTF meter in my head went off.....and asking a dealer mechanic....he noted that it sounded like a rich purge from the carbon cannister. His was the first notation that 30-50k miles is sometimes it for the canister.

OBD-1 VW cars started comingwith a vacuum sensor on the canister vacuum system to trigger code that notes when the canister is no longer effective. Ray
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rattyray7
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2015 5:54 pm    Post subject: bypass it? Reply with quote

If I live in an area that doesn't do smog testing, could I just remove the whole canister system and bypass it?
Is it a useful system, more specifically, should I WANT to keep it?
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2015 6:25 pm    Post subject: Re: bypass it? Reply with quote

rattyray7 wrote:
If I live in an area that doesn't do smog testing, could I just remove the whole canister system and bypass it?
Is it a useful system, more specifically, should I WANT to keep it?


There really isn't much of a down side to keeping your carbon canister working order. One reason to keep it is that we all share this planet and need to do our individual share to reduce our pollution foot print. I personally like the idea of living without asthma, silicosis, and a bunch of other lung diseases.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2015 6:30 pm    Post subject: Re: bypass it? Reply with quote

Wildthings wrote:
rattyray7 wrote:
If I live in an area that doesn't do smog testing, could I just remove the whole canister system and bypass it?
Is it a useful system, more specifically, should I WANT to keep it?


There really isn't much of a down side to keeping your carbon canister working order. One reason to keep it is that we all share this planet and need to do our individual share to reduce our pollution foot print. I personally like the idea of living without asthma, silicosis, and a bunch of other lung diseases.

Agreed, it's completely passive and doesn't effect performance in any way, why not maintain it? Whether you believe the global warming hype or not I just hate having gas I paid for flying away into the atmosphere, if I bought it I'd rather burn it myself Wink
There's no downside to keeping it at all.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2015 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does anyone have a diagram that shows where to plug the canister into the air filter unit of a dual-carb 1974?
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2015 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stwesty wrote:
Does anyone have a diagram that shows where to plug the canister into the air filter unit of a dual-carb 1974?


There's 2 12mm nipples on the aircleaner, one's on the inlet snorkel (that's for the crankcase breather), the other one that you want is on the side of the actual center box the filter lives in.
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Greg in GA
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Should the charcoal canister be air tight except at the inlets/outlets? IE if you cover all openings and slightly pressurize the canister, should there be air escaping elsewhere?
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