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Evaporative Emission Control EVAP/Charcoal, Carbon Canister
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SGKent Premium Member
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Greg in GA wrote:
Should the charcoal canister be air tight except at the inlets/outlets? IE if you cover all openings and slightly pressurize the canister, should there be air escaping elsewhere?


The original from about 1974 to 1977 was not air tight. The 1978 > design could be if the caps have welded plastic seams. The design from the late 60's to 1973 or 1974 is a welded metal can so it is likely airtight as to the seams.

It will not affect whether you pass or not. The fumes are drawn into the airbox ahead of the AFM. The question that the smog shop will have is what condition are those lines. CARB can instruct the shop to test the gas cap and tanks for leaks. Although my system is perfect, on my last test CARB instructed my smog guy to pressurize the fuel tank. I protested because I did not want someone pinching lines and pressurizing my tank, and the lines behind the bulkhead. If one had come off it would have been a lot of work for me. My smog guy called his referee, and they waived that part of the test as long as it looked visually good.
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Greg in GA
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ah, thanks, not really worried about smog, just trying to figure out if I need to take the canister apart and refill the charcoal.

edit: or if I need to replace the canister.
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SGKent Premium Member
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Greg in GA wrote:
ah, thanks, not really worried about smog, just trying to figure out if I need to take the canister apart and refill the charcoal.

edit: or if I need to replace the canister.


depends on how it is made. The metal ones require cutting a hole. The mid years plastic ones the top comes off. The late ones I think are welded plastic.

I know the on the two mid plastic ones I had apart there was a plastic screen at the fume inlet which had turned to gel and was blocking anymore fumes from coming in. I used a piece of solvent resistant pad to replace it. A new late canister is about $50. The carbon is activated charcoal. If you can find it at a local aquarium it will work. The issue is most aquarium shops have granular carbon with lots of powder particles in it, and not the pellets. I finally found some locally but the sources change all the time so it is hit and miss. Some places want to sell it in like 20 - 50 pound bags so the cost is not that effective. You only need about 2 pounds as I recall.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SGKent wrote:
Greg in GA wrote:
ah, thanks, not really worried about smog, just trying to figure out if I need to take the canister apart and refill the charcoal.

edit: or if I need to replace the canister.


depends on how it is made. The metal ones require cutting a hole. The mid years plastic ones the top comes off. The late ones I think are welded plastic.

I know the on the two mid plastic ones I had apart there was a plastic screen at the fume inlet which had turned to gel and was blocking anymore fumes from coming in. I used a piece of solvent resistant pad to replace it. A new late canister is about $50. The carbon is activated charcoal. If you can find it at a local aquarium it will work. The issue is most aquarium shops have granular carbon with lots of powder particles in it, and not the pellets. I finally found some locally but the sources change all the time so it is hit and miss. Some places want to sell it in like 20 - 50 pound bags so the cost is not that effective. You only need about 2 pounds as I recall.

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In the future...you might try people like this

http://www.islandcleanair.com/Filters/whichfilter.html

I have done a good bit of business with Island in the past ...good people....for factory and clean room air filtration and cleaning systems. They make systems with carbon grids and with Potassium permanganate grids for solvent capture.

They make their own grids so always have tons of carbon. I am betting...but do not know for sure...that they would be probably willing to sell you a couple of pounds of what they have tons of laying around. I would also be willing to bet that they have several different grinds of granule or pellet for different system types.

They are pretty entrepreneurial. Who knows...if they see enough of prospect...maybe you can talk them into making a canister for the bus application. Ray
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 11:37 am    Post subject: Fuel trap Left 211201711 - Right 712, 72-79 Reply with quote

Fuel trap Left 211201711 - Right 211201712, 72-79
thank to Zvonimir1985
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thanks to jerseylooker. #45 Fuel Trap
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I'm guessing it works like an expansion chamber. As the vapor reaches the chamber the vapor expands and the fuel droplets fall out.
Maybe some day someone will cut one open?

Tcash
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 6:29 am    Post subject: Re: Fuel trap Left 211201711 - Right 712, 72-79 Reply with quote

Tcash wrote:

I'm guessing it works like an expansion chamber. As the vapor reaches the chamber the vapor expands and the fuel droplets fall out.
Maybe some day someone will cut one open?

Tcash


I think it is nothing more than a wide spot in the pipe which allows the pipe to temporarily hold a small volume of fuel that might have worked its way into the venting system and then to let any air bubbles which might be passing through the tubing get passed any stored fuel.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 8:14 am    Post subject: Re: Fuel trap Left 211201711 - Right 712, 72-79 Reply with quote

Wildthings wrote:
Tcash wrote:

I'm guessing it works like an expansion chamber. As the vapor reaches the chamber the vapor expands and the fuel droplets fall out.
Maybe some day someone will cut one open?

Tcash


I think it is nothing more than a wide spot in the pipe which allows the pipe to temporarily hold a small volume of fuel that might have worked its way into the venting system and then to let any air bubbles which might be passing through the tubing get passed any stored fuel.


probably both of you are correct. Depending which side of the flow the trap is on, it may also collect moisture and send it down to the canister instead of the tank.
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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2016 6:32 pm    Post subject: EVAP Systems Reply with quote

url=http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8078463#8078463]EVAP Systems[/url]

1970 EVAP System
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/70vwprogram/page23.jpg
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=1258395
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=1258394

1970 Pick Up EVAP System
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6...highlight=

1971 EVAP System

1972 EVAP System

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Maybe 1972-73 non US - Canada.
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1975 Rubber filler neck FI

1978 gas tank filler parts

70-71 charcoal hose diagram
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=1050925

1977 Charcoal canister
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=1393130

1978 Charcoal canister
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1422323.jpg
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1422322.jpg
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1422846.jpg
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1422845.jpg


Last edited by Tcash on Tue Jul 05, 2016 4:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Tcash
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 6:34 pm    Post subject: 1970-71 EVAP System Reply with quote

url=http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8133331#8133331]1970-71 EVAP System[/url]

Thanks to all that posted data!

1970-71 EVAP System

Under "Scheduled Vehicle and Emission Control Maintenance" in the Bentley, and I Quote:
"In addition every 48,000 mi. (80,000 km):"
"Activated charcoal filter. Replace (1970 vehicles sold in California and all 1971 and later models)."
Carbon Canister Refresh - Howto

Note Fuel Vapor Route:
Starting at the center of the Fuel tank> short piece of hose> breather line (steel tubing) loops around> short piece of hose> breather line in firewall> short piece of hose> activated carbon canister.
Where the fuel vapor accumulates waiting to be purged when the engine is off.

Note Fuel Vapor Purge Route:
Starting at the Fan Housing> a length of hose connected to, the rear of the activated carbon canister (rear is always to the rear of the vehicle) the nipple closest to you> a length of hose from the front of the activated carbon canister to the side of the Air filter (not to the snorkel).
When the engine is started air pressure from the fan housing enters the rear of the activated carbon canister and exits out the front of the canister carrying fuel vapor with it to the side of the air filter. From there the air and fuel vapor make their way into the engine. Thus being burned through the combustion process rather than being released into the atmosphere.

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For those interested in best fuel mileage practices. If your EVAP System is not hooked up your letting fuel mileage escape into the atmosphere.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 2:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Evaporative Emission Control EVAP/Charcoal, Carbon Canister Reply with quote

I recently acquired a '74 and see that part of the evap system is missing. I am missing the carbon canister as well as the section of pipe/hose that joins the two fuel traps in the pillars to a "T" and runs to the carbon canister.

Can the canister be omitted/bypassed? Instead run the single hose that comes from the section of pipe/hose that joins the two fuel traps in the pillars to a "T", straight to the air cleaner "snorkel" port. This seems to be what is depicted in the diagram below from ratwell (#9, 27, 28 appear to connect directly to the air cleaner). Are there any issues or safety concerns doing this?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 3:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Evaporative Emission Control EVAP/Charcoal, Carbon Canister Reply with quote

Welcome.
That would work, it's how it was done in Europe. There is a small risk of fuel getting into the aircleaner on a hot day with an overfilled tank, but VW didn't seem to be too worried about it.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 3:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Evaporative Emission Control EVAP/Charcoal, Carbon Canister Reply with quote

busdaddy wrote:
Welcome.
That would work, it's how it was done in Europe. There is a small risk of fuel getting into the aircleaner on a hot day with an overfilled tank, but VW didn't seem to be too worried about it.


The air cleaner element acts somewhat like a flame trap so if one hooks the vent to outside of the element the fire risk is fairly minimal. Not forcing that last 1/4 gallon into the tank on a hot day is always good as well.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 3:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Evaporative Emission Control EVAP/Charcoal, Carbon Canister Reply with quote

I have a 78 that's been converted to carberator.
Is there much reason to keep this canister?
What should I do to bypass it and get rid of it?
Thanks
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 5:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Evaporative Emission Control EVAP/Charcoal, Carbon Canister Reply with quote

If you park in a garage you'll want the canister, unless you like the smell of gas.
To delete it do the same thing sksamuelson proposes, since you don't even have an OG aircleaner there's no need for the #28 reducer fitting to connect the vapor line to the filter. But as WT's says the OGVW setup for the Euro market still uses the filter element as a flame trap, drilling into the lid exposes the line to a backfire and could result in a very exciting boom. You'll need a separate flame trap, or box in your filter with the cookie tin preheat mod and vent into the outer box.

Sometimes it's easier to just install the canister.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 10:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Evaporative Emission Control EVAP/Charcoal, Carbon Canister Reply with quote

Don't sweat it if you over the 48000 mile interval on the canister. Activated C will work for as long as it is getting vented and not flooded

I suspect they made that interval up as guess on longevity rather than an actual MTBF.

On modern cars, the EVAP canister lasts 200-300 k miles or more.

Your nose will tell you if you have a vapor problem.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 9:48 am    Post subject: Re: Evaporative Emission Control EVAP/Charcoal, Carbon Canister Reply with quote

Every now and then I find a thread like this and realize how much work I need to do.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 9:53 am    Post subject: Re: Evaporative Emission Control EVAP/Charcoal, Carbon Canister Reply with quote

That's kind of why I posted. On the scale of things, if you can't detect gas odor on a hot day, servicing this system is lower priority than cleaning bugs of the front of your mirrors.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 10:02 am    Post subject: Re: Evaporative Emission Control EVAP/Charcoal, Carbon Canister Reply with quote

Abscate wrote:
That's kind of why I posted. On the scale of things, if you can't detect gas odor on a hot day, servicing this system is lower priority than cleaning bugs of the front of your mirrors.


What about when you smell gas when you turn left?
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 11:56 am    Post subject: Re: Evaporative Emission Control EVAP/Charcoal, Carbon Canister Reply with quote

MaddMatt wrote:
Abscate wrote:
That's kind of why I posted. On the scale of things, if you can't detect gas odor on a hot day, servicing this system is lower priority than cleaning bugs of the front of your mirrors.


What about when you smell gas when you turn left?


I would fix the gaskets or hoses or hole in the tank first
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 6:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Evaporative Emission Control EVAP/Charcoal, Carbon Canister Reply with quote

So since its carberatored, where exactly does the big lines go out of the canister?
I have the smalled fuel line going from the T connection to the canister.
Then I think one of the big ones from the bottom goes back to the engine. Top one goes no where.
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