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Intake manifold color
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bnmrock
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 3:33 pm    Post subject: Intake manifold color Reply with quote

1957 beetle intake manifold color, mine is an off white.
Anyone know the actual color. Mine is rusty in spots and I want to have it powdered coated.
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Eric&Barb
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All the ones we have seen over the years that had the original paint were grey. Here is an "NOS intake manifold" found in the gallery.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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*Darren
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

see this thread http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=571100&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

and this post from the thread


Quote:
Schwing wrote:
AlteWagen wrote:
Schwing wrote:
Cool to see a black intake manifold. I really used to think they were all grey.


Phosphate coating with bare jacket was standard up to 62 then went to gray.


Good intel thanks Alte.
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2003nbc
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a different opinion about the original intake manifold color(s). Over my past 40 + years with the hobby and owning / working-on many 36 H.P. engines I just never noticed grey intake manifolds. It seems to me the grey started showing-up on restored cars at VW shows & meets over the past 20 years. Most all originals I have seen were black (flat black) and the heat riser tubing was mostly rusty. Not saying there were not any painted grey. Over the past few years I have been checking photos of cars found on Samba described as untouched “original” or low mileage - below are some links – most all seem to have black manifolds too.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7088913&highlight=#7088913

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6865902&highlight=#6865902

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6395062&highlight=#6395062

I know that my 1957 intake manifold (owned for 41 years) was not originally grey, it was black. It is likely the vw replacement parts were painted grey.
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bnmrock
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 2:29 pm    Post subject: 1957 intake manifold color Reply with quote

Thanks guys, I guess I'll go with flat black.
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*Darren
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Umm, not to again throw a wrench in this - absolutely NOT flat black. The car I referenced (and repeated by NBC2003) likely had some sheen to it that has probably faded/decayed from heat with time. My thinking is that the manifold from the factory, likely looked much like the pans (which has been referenced as 70% gloss). From what I've seen VW used little if any flat black. From what I've ever seen, it all has some gloss, it (for lack of a better description) looks industrial. I do agree with NBC2003, that the gray manifolds likely may have been produced later (maybe post '62 in agreement with the post I quoted) for parts. My manifold (never out of the car) - black and it's not flat.
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bnmrock
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 6:42 pm    Post subject: Intake manifold color, 1957 Reply with quote

OK, how about semi gloss?
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*Darren
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 5:12 am    Post subject: Re: Intake manifold color, 1957 Reply with quote

bnmrock wrote:
OK, how about semi gloss?


My suggestion, try to find a semi-gloss that you'll be happy with. Go to a store buy a few cans of different semi's spray them out & compare, try to match (or use) the one that doesn't have too much gloss.

I'll refer you back to this thread on pans and these two quotes http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=199834
aggro_jo wrote:
again, Like Bill said, If you are building a 100 point car, 70% gloss paint is the only pan covering that you will not lose points on

Speedy wrote:
*Do semi gloss..
*DO NOT DO GLOSS BLACK - Why? it will look way too (ridiculously) glossy and you'll regret it.
Rick
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bnmrock
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 8:25 am    Post subject: Intake manifold color Reply with quote

Great guys, semi-gloss it is. Thanks much.
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Blauchen L331
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that the semi-gloss medium to dark grey of the gasoline tank, comes closest to the original color that the intakes were.
(I mean the color is similar)

I have a COLOR KODACHROME slide picture of a 1956 Oval bought new in Germany by a US Army service member, (I will share the story of this car soon here at the Samba) ~ the car had like less than 20 miles on the odometer when the slide was taken and the color of the intake is nearly identical to the color of the Oval's gas tank......

See my tank below:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


*All original 100% paint on the gas tank from May 1957*

My car is also a survivor low mileage car, (ONLY 27,400 when I bought the car three years ago) but my intake manifold was replaced in 1999 so it's not the factory one.
(the rest of the motor though is ALL ORIGINAL, only the Bosch decal is worn off the coil body and the oil bath cleaner paint is also gone, it was originally all black, same color as the engine tins).

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


My intake was a 1960's replacement and it's all heated up and looks flat black......

A semi-gloss dark grey would be the closest to the color you'd want to powder coat, I think?

Gute Fahrt! (Happy Driving)

Tom
_________________
OG PAINT L331 JUNE 1957 TYPE 1 OVAL WINDOW
(US Army In Germany POV/Grey Market Special Ordered Car from MAHAG Munich)
Delivered with Semaphores - German "Puntchen" Cloth Polkadotted Interior -
USA RAM Protection/Export Overrider Bumpers - MPH Speedometer -
Sealed Beam Headlights and Bullet Front Turn Signals!
99.9% ORIGINAL PARTS WITH ONLY 33,000 ORIGINAL MILES/ GARAGE FIND/ UNRESTORED CAR


Last edited by Blauchen L331 on Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Bruce Berman
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 9:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Intake manifold color Reply with quote

bnmrock wrote:
Great guys, semi-gloss it is. Thanks much.


Tom, the color of the intake manifold on these earlier cars was definitely not the same color as the gray-blue colored fuel tank; I think that finish on the tank may have been introduced in the 1956 model year with the advent of the new fuel tank for increased luggage space. Rather, the manifold color was the phosphatized black finish that a few others in this thread have pointed to. One example given was the photo of the engine in my car.

I am virtually certain, looking at the manifold on my car, that the manifold was not painted, and I am not familiar with the process that could be used nowadays to exactly duplicate the phosphatized finish, for those who are sticklers for authenticity and originality. Obviously, the VW factory used an inexpensive process that lent itself to high-volume production during the days of the 36 HP engine. Perhaps a process similar to applying gun bluing to a rifle barrel may be worth exploring.

I am of the opinion that over time, the phosphatized finish either burned away (from engine heat) or simply faded away with age. The intake manifold on the engine in my car, which has about 13,072 miles on it as of this writing, has much of the black finish remaining, but in other locations of the manifold, particularly closer to the cylinder heads, the black finish has disappeared to some extent. The finish of the base metal, once the phosphatized black finish has dissipated, is more of a brown-gray color.

Just my 2 cents, and all the best to you and to Blauchen!

Bruce
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:23 am    Post subject: Re: Intake manifold color Reply with quote

Bruce Berman wrote:
bnmrock wrote:
Great guys, semi-gloss it is. Thanks much.


Tom, the color of the intake manifold on these earlier cars was definitely not the same color as the gray-blue colored fuel tank; . Rather, the manifold color was the phosphatized black finish that a few others in this thread have pointed to. One example given was the photo of the engine in my car.

I am virtually certain, looking at the manifold on my car, that the manifold was not painted, and I am not familiar with the process that could be used nowadays to exactly duplicate the phosphatized finish, for those who are Perhaps a process similar to applying gun bluing to a rifle barrel may be worth exploring.

I am of the opinion that over time, the phosphatized finish either burned away (from engine heat) or simply faded away with age.

Just my 2 cents, and all the best to you and to Blauchen!

Bruce


I wasn't going to come back to this, but Bruce this is exactly what I initially noted on the comment on your car - phosphate finish and you're right it burns off - much in the manner of the gold finish to the engine case. The end result is black with time. Me I'll stick with a bare case & paint the manifold black (high temp) as I know that what's the engine will look like after I drive it a bit & would look like from the factory with time. I'm sure come enterprising individual will soon be offering phosphated manifolds.
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Kjell Roar
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After owning old beetles the last 30 years (and grow up in one that still is my fathers), it wouldnt surprise me if it was delivered in different colors through the years. Often they bought parts from at least 2 suppliers, maybe they delivered different color, too.

Have seen other parts that people claim was wrong, but in the end, it shows right. It is normal that parts where bought in batches, and one batch goes to one supplier, the next goes to another one. Like Bosch vs Hella headlamps. Or Securit vs Duraglas windows. Besides, they always wanted at least 2 suppliers, in case of trouble with one of them.
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Blauchen L331
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hiya Bruce!!! And other Volks!!!

Well, I think it was like Kjell said, Wolfsburg had various parts suppliers so colors could have been different........also I think no matter what color the intakes started with they always burn away BLACK so that's something to consider too?

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


There's a color copie of an original Kodachrome Slide taken in 1956 at Merrell Barracks in Nuremberg Germany by the cars brand new US Army owner, the car had less than 20 miles on the odometer when this slide was taken with his camera.

It looks to be a flatish medium to dark grey by my eyes (and I just passed an Internet color chart test, LOL!!!)
It's up to shadows and lighting, but this guys camera took some amazing photos in Germany back in the 1950's.

I will tell the story about this car here at the Samba at a later date.

Enjoy!

Tom

P.S. I also have an original side of a 1954 Oval that was delivered to the West Coast someplace, also in color, but I can't find it now to see what color that manifold was.......?
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OG PAINT L331 JUNE 1957 TYPE 1 OVAL WINDOW
(US Army In Germany POV/Grey Market Special Ordered Car from MAHAG Munich)
Delivered with Semaphores - German "Puntchen" Cloth Polkadotted Interior -
USA RAM Protection/Export Overrider Bumpers - MPH Speedometer -
Sealed Beam Headlights and Bullet Front Turn Signals!
99.9% ORIGINAL PARTS WITH ONLY 33,000 ORIGINAL MILES/ GARAGE FIND/ UNRESTORED CAR


Last edited by Blauchen L331 on Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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*Darren
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The above photo, as much confirms than refutes the earlier claims of a temporary phosphate. As I stated, referring to a post about Bruce's car, & Bruce stated VW phosphated the manifolds. I'll admit I can't for sure tell what is what with the last photo, but kinda looks blued rather than painted to me. The point again is that in a relatively short period of time (undefined) that finish, much like the engine finish wore/burnt off. The other point is counter KR's post - have you ever seen an crank or gen pulley other than black? Engine tin? Fan shroud? Oil bath (Mann, Knecht or other from the tp in question), if so they sure aren't the norm and what do you do for a resto? For sure, VWs have a lot of inconsistencies, and I guess to the op - do you want to have your car look exactly like it rolled off the line yesterday (better figure out how to phosphate or something similar)? or something a little more used. I mean a car unless locked away & never driven is immediately going to be used and deteriorate - for me, despite liking the typical look of the light gray manifold (it offsets the rest of the engine nicely), I'll stick with the more used industrial (black) look of the manifold. I think at this point, anything leaves you up to potential criticism.
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Bruce Berman
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blauchen L331 wrote:
Hiya Bruce!!! And other Volks!!!

Well, I think it was like Kjell said, Wolfsburg had various parts suppliers so colors could have been different........also I think no matter what color the intakes started with they always burn away BLACK so that's something to consider too?

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


There's a color copie of an original Kodachrome Slide taken in 1956 at Merrell Barracks in Nuremberg Germany by the cars brand new US Army owner, the car had less than 20 miles on the odometer when this slide was taken with his camera.

It looks to be a flatish medium to dark grey by my eyes (and I just passed an Internet color chart test, LOL!!!)
It's up to shadows and lighting, but this guys camera took some amazing photos in Germany back in the 1950's.

I will tell the story about this car here at the Samba at a later date.

Enjoy!

Tom

P.S. I also have an original side of a 1954 Oval that was delivered to the West Coast someplace, also in color, but I can't find it now to see what color that manifold was.......?


Wow, that is a really great reference photo, Tom!

We certainly look forward to seeing the story associated with this car.

Thanks for sharing!

Bruce
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Blauchen L331
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bruce Berman wrote:
Blauchen L331 wrote:
Hiya Bruce!!! And other Volks!!!

Well, I think it was like Kjell said, Wolfsburg had various parts suppliers so colors could have been different........also I think no matter what color the intakes started with they always burn away BLACK so that's something to consider too?

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


There's a color copie of an original Kodachrome Slide taken in 1956 at Merrell Barracks in Nuremberg Germany by the cars brand new US Army owner, the car had less than 20 miles on the odometer when this slide was taken with his camera.

It looks to be a flatish medium to dark grey by my eyes (and I just passed an Internet color chart test, LOL!!!)
It's up to shadows and lighting, but this guys camera took some amazing photos in Germany back in the 1950's.

I will tell the story about this car here at the Samba at a later date.

Enjoy!

Tom

P.S. I also have an original side of a 1954 Oval that was delivered to the West Coast someplace, also in color, but I can't find it now to see what color that manifold was.......?


Wow, that is a really great reference photo, Tom!

We certainly look forward to seeing the story associated with this car.

Thanks for sharing!

Bruce


Heya Bruce!

Yeah, it's a great story, a member of the 7th Corps US Army Band stationed in Nuremberg, Germany in 1956, he had a great taste in buying a "new" Volkswagen and a yen for Music and it showed in the bizarre AM Broadcast, Long Wave and FM (MW,LW & UKW) radio he ordered fresh from the dealer accessories catalog..........I'll just say it's like one of the MOST EXPENSIVE of all Oval Window radios!

I've seen some lovely slides from the man's tour of duty, I'll try to post the story soon.

Tom
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OG PAINT L331 JUNE 1957 TYPE 1 OVAL WINDOW
(US Army In Germany POV/Grey Market Special Ordered Car from MAHAG Munich)
Delivered with Semaphores - German "Puntchen" Cloth Polkadotted Interior -
USA RAM Protection/Export Overrider Bumpers - MPH Speedometer -
Sealed Beam Headlights and Bullet Front Turn Signals!
99.9% ORIGINAL PARTS WITH ONLY 33,000 ORIGINAL MILES/ GARAGE FIND/ UNRESTORED CAR
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 6:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is a great photo, as I look at it again, you can clearly see the gold tint to the engine case. I'm also wondering what the marking that looks like a big chalk k on the gen stand is.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

*Darren wrote:
That is a great photo, as I look at it again, you can clearly see the gold tint to the engine case. I'm also wondering what the marking that looks like a big chalk k on the gen stand is.


Most likely one of the QC inspectors marks. They wrote all over the cars during the various inspections.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blauchen L331 wrote:
Hiya Bruce!!! And other Volks!!!

Well, I think it was like Kjell said, Wolfsburg had various parts suppliers so colors could have been different........also I think no matter what color the intakes started with they always burn away BLACK so that's something to consider too?

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


There's a color copie of an original Kodachrome Slide taken in 1956 at Merrell Barracks in Nuremberg Germany by the cars brand new US Army owner, the car had less than 20 miles on the odometer when this slide was taken with his camera.

It looks to be a flatish medium to dark grey by my eyes (and I just passed an Internet color chart test, LOL!!!)
It's up to shadows and lighting, but this guys camera took some amazing photos in Germany back in the 1950's.

I will tell the story about this car here at the Samba at a later date.

Enjoy!

Tom

P.S. I also have an original side of a 1954 Oval that was delivered to the West Coast someplace, also in color, but I can't find it now to see what color that manifold was.......?


certainly seems consistent with this photo from '53

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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