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Steering Box replacement in a 1971 VW Bay Window Bus
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peteandvanessa
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 1:30 pm    Post subject: Steering Box replacement in a 1971 VW Bay Window Bus Reply with quote

Just thought I'd try and document the removal and replacement of a steering box in a 1971 VW Bay Window Bus.

Now, here's the old steering box in place. This guy was allowing about 6-7 inches of steering play when measured around the circumference of the standard steering wheel.

Here you are looking at the Pitman arm on the steering box:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Here you can see the steering box to the left and the Pitman arm that we will need to remove. The Pitman arm is connected to the drag link. If you are just changing the steering box, you do not need to disconnect the drag link from the Pitman arm. You can just remove the Pitman arm with the drag link connected and let it pivot downwards.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


This is the bad boy we intend to pull off the steering box in order to remove the box from the Bus:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Slacken the nut on the end of the Pitman arm, but don't remove it completely.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Now, I rented a heavy duty Pitman arm puller from Auto zone. I went for the heavy duty one, since I heard so many stories about how hard this task was going to be. The previous few days I sprayed WD40 all over the Pitman arm and all bolts, and let it soak in.

Here's the tool you want to rent:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


It's about $90 to buy, so just buy it, use it for up to 90 days then return it and you get your money back (pretty sweet deal)

Here's the puller on the Pitman Arm with the screws all snugged up. The screws stop the puller arms from splaying and popping of the Pitman arm.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I then used a socket on the end of the puller to start to pull on the Pitman arm, I was using a 1/2 inch socket set about 18 inches long. I snugged it up and then went for it and pulled as hard as I could. The Pitman popped free pretty easily, with no problem. Here's a pic after the arm popped off:

If your Pitman arm doesn't pop off as easily as mine, get a cheater bar on your wrench and snug that puller nut up pretty tight and then whack it with a small 3lb hammer on the SIDE of the Pitman arm. Some say that the small whack will pop the arm free under tension from the puller. You might even have to try a little heat to break that Pitman arm free, just keep working it until it does.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


There are four bolts that hold the steering box in place, two at the top and two at the bottom. Un-screw those four bolts and place them to one side.

Here's the new box (Top) and old box (Bottom), the re-built box was about $320 with an additional $250 core charge, so total cost was $550 (I'll get the $250 core charge back when I return the old box for a re-build)

I found it easier to fill the steering box with oil (they come re-built without the oil). It took about 10 ounces of oil to fill. I just popped off the plug on top of the steering box and then filled it with Valvoline 80W-90 gear oil.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


While I was in there, I replaced the old coupler, the old coupler was starting to fall apart and there were no nyloc nuts, or cotter pins. A big no no in my book, so they got refreshed as well. You do not have to remove the steering wheel to replace the couple. You can just undo the four bolts that fasten the coupler to the top and bottom yokes. By doing that, you can get about a 1/2 inch of play and push the steering column up about 1/2 inch to remove the bolts, or just pull off the nuts to free the steering box.
Now mine had no nyloc nuts, or cotter pins. It did have the castlenuts on the bottom, but the bolt had no hole drilled in it for the cotter pins. So I removed the castlenuts and replaced them with automotive strength nuts with nyloc inserts.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I marked the shaft of the new box and matched it to the old box, I marked both the steering shaft and also the Pitman arm, so everything would re-align on re-assembly.

I also made sure that the steering box was centered before installation, I did this by counting the turns left from center and turns right from center. In fact the builder of the new box has made marks on the steering box, so it was obvious by looking at the center marks on the steering box and the Pitman arm. If you are unsure, then, you can feel the center position pretty easily by rotating the input to the steering box, it will get tighter towards the center position and looser as you rotate left or right. It's pretty obvious where the center is. The re-builder had already adjusted the box to remove the steering "slop" so I didn't need to adjust that at all.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


A torqued down the Pitman arm nut to factory specs and inserted a new cotterpin.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


All done, the play reduced to about 2 inches, the final play is down to the draglink bushings which will be replaced later. A new draglink, plus bushings is about $100.

All in all it took me 2 hours to replace the steering box and coupler, and about 30 mins of that was going to the local hardware store to get some nyloc nuts. I'd read and heard some stories of it taking 3-4 hours to get the Pitman arm off, but with the WD40 soaking and the heavy duty Pitman arm puller, I got the arm off in less than 10 mins. Maybe I got lucky, or maybe it was the right tool that helped, but changing out the coupler and steering box was pretty easy, and the working room under the Bus is fantastic, so no issues there. Didn't even need to jack it up at all to gain access.

Update:
We also pulled out the old drag link and replaced it with a new on. The whole draglink and the end bushings come as a set (I couldn't find a vendor who just supplied the end bushing, so bought the complete unit).
The steering play reduced from 2 inches to less than an inch. Now the Bus steering has improved dramatically. With the old worn set up, the Bus would track straight, but every now and then it would wonder and the driver would have to input a lot of steering movement to correct the wonder (up to 8 inches)

Now it's like a new Bus, very, very little play and it tracks straight on the freeway. So the solution for me, was to replace the Steering box ($300 fix) and also replace the drag link and drag link bushings ($100 fix).

Pretty happy with how it turned out.
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My 1974 Standard Build Thread:

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My Son's 1971 Bay Window Westie Build Thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7295189#7295189


Last edited by peteandvanessa on Sat Jul 12, 2014 7:44 pm; edited 6 times in total
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guanella74
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great writeup. Where'd you buy the box?
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

guanella74 wrote:
Great writeup. Where'd you buy the box?


Thanks. The box came from www.bus-boys.com

I ordered it on the Monday, and it arrived the next day. Their shipping was so fast I missed the mailman asking for my signature, had to pick it up the following day from the mail office.

Their rebuilt box is part number -> 211-415-049FX $319.95 with a $250.00 core. A real quality product, with the alignment positions marked on the box and the outside is cleaned up and repainted. Very nice product.
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My Son's 1971 Bay Window Westie Build Thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7295189#7295189
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CarlosZ
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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2016 7:27 am    Post subject: Re: Steering Box replacement in a 1971 VW Bay Window Bus Reply with quote

Very informative. I just bought a 72 and have been trying to figure out how to drain the steering box oil. Oil came out when I removed the adjustment screw. I loosened the four plate screws on the bottom but nothing comes out. Should the plate be removed? I was assuming something would come out as it came out of the adj screw which is higher up. I've searched but haven't found anything. I resorted to filling the box for now. I read it takes 10 oz, I was only able to add 1.5 oz. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2016 7:49 am    Post subject: Re: Steering Box replacement in a 1971 VW Bay Window Bus Reply with quote

someone may have put grease in it instead of gear lube.
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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2016 10:55 am    Post subject: Re: Steering Box replacement in a 1971 VW Bay Window Bus Reply with quote

Oil came out when I removed the adjustment screw.
You should not have done this. The adjustment procedure in the Bentley is very detailed.
This is a roadside adjustment procedure at best.
Steering Box Adjustment Technique

Note in this pic hard to see but there is an Oring on the end cap with 4 bolts. You would need to pull the cap out past this Oring to drain the fluid. If you take it off do not loose any of the shims.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 2:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Steering Box replacement in a 1971 VW Bay Window Bus Reply with quote

Great write up, thanks!
Didn't know about bus-boys, are those fully refurbished boxes? I was under the impression that some of the parts are definitely unavailable - was actually considering converting to a late bay box. That would make for an easier operation at a similar price.
I saw on their page that they rent a tool for installing a new pivot, did you do that too?
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 3:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Steering Box replacement in a 1971 VW Bay Window Bus Reply with quote

Tcash wrote:


Note in this pic hard to see but there is an Oring on the end cap with 4 bolts. You would need to pull the cap out past this Oring to drain the fluid.


there is no o-ring under the cap

that's my hand in the photo showing what a "rebuilt" box was composed of

I think bus boys is outta business.

I have a nice rebuilt box on the shelf now. really don't want to let it loose as it took me 4 (yes, 4 core boxes) to find enough parts to make 1 good one.

I may be convinced to let it go, but it won't be cheap

fitting a late box won't be easy unless you have the floor of the bus out. it is possible to do though. spend your time or spend your money....
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 3:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Steering Box replacement in a 1971 VW Bay Window Bus Reply with quote

So - what yer sayin' skills, is that maybe nobody rebuilds early boxes except for maybe someone crazy as you who'll take the time to do it right?

Are we heading slowly to that point at which the common reply to parts inquiries is "you can't get there from here"? Sad
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 6:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Steering Box replacement in a 1971 VW Bay Window Bus Reply with quote

Lil' Lulu wrote:
So - what yer sayin' skills, is that maybe nobody rebuilds early boxes except for maybe someone crazy as you who'll take the time to do it right?

Are we heading slowly to that point at which the common reply to parts inquiries is "you can't get there from here"? Sad


Below is an honest opinion based on having owned both early and late bays, and rebuilt boxes from both.

More like Caveat Emptor. As to early steering boxes, once you have a couple apart, and see what and how it wears, one becomes incredibly suspicious of the phrase "rebuilt steering box." There aren't that many serviceable items. It is more like cleaning, inspecting for a pass - fail on the worm gear, shaft, then replacing seals, ball bearings, and the steering peg if they are worn out. Late boxes are pretty much the same other than they don't have a peg. Then adjusting to factory specs. If the worm gear is worn out or the shaft loose in the bushing, the box is pretty much done for although a good machinist could devise a solution. With profit, liability, cost of parts, cost of cores, labor, all combined, a rebuilt early box should sell for about $650 - $695. Not many folks here would fork that much so I suspect the boxes get whatever attention you'll pay for. At best they are steering box cleaning, refresh, and adjustment.

Early box:
Labor $100
Peg $100
Bearings and seals $25
Cores $200
Profit $150 (if the shop can sell 10 a month then that would pay for the space but not much profit. The trick would be to do 10 then use the space to repair other items, repeat as needed.)
Liability Insurance ??
Retail store profit $100 - $150

Late box $100 less although more will fail at the core level because the peg is not replaceable:
Labor $100
Bearings and seals $25
Cores $225
Profit $150 (if the shop can sell 10 a month then that would pay for the space but not much profit. The trick would be to do 10 then use the space to repair other items, repeat as needed.)
Liability Insurance ??
Retail store profit $100 - $150
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Godspeed to all who undertake a journey with a VW Bus.

*You can do it right the first time, or do it over, the choice is yours. It is a free country. As to brakes, steering, tires, axles etc. - you may only get one chance at doing those right.

* VW Buses and VW cars share many of the same systems but if you haven't owned a bus and maintained it for awhile, you really don't know how different it is.

Bus Engine Cooling Issues? https://kentcomputer.com/77VW/BusEngineCooling.pdf
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 8:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Steering Box replacement in a 1971 VW Bay Window Bus Reply with quote

Lil' Lulu wrote:
So - what yer sayin' skills, is that maybe nobody rebuilds early boxes except for maybe someone crazy as you who'll take the time to do it right?

Are we heading slowly to that point at which the common reply to parts inquiries is "you can't get there from here"? Sad


as steve pointed out, not much is serviceable. the bearing races are a bitch to find not all galled up.

if the box was run dry, the peg gets all sorts of galled up in the bore. the fix is to machine the peg down some, then open the box up to accept custom bronze bushings. it's a lot of work...

the "tick tick" from these boxes off center is a combination of things...it's usually a bit of wear in the peg bore. when you crank the wheel, the worm spins the peg....

when the bore is loose, the peg get loaded and slams the bore, or is thrust into the adjuster some.

I run my adjustments a hair loose myself. if you get a box with a pretty loud "tick tick" off center, you can be assured that the peg has worn the bore in the box. the box is softer than the peg, and will wear out elliptically, so to speak.

I will use a peg is the scoring in minimal, and a box (case) if the bore is ok. I take the hard edges off the peg and honestly, I think the scoring can help hold the oil in the bore somewhat.

and decent cores are hard to find. as mentioned, your average used box sells here in the classifieds for 200 or so dollars. kind of risky buying one Confused

am I crazy? yea, I guess. I just want to have this stuff kicking around when I need it. and when I do, I want it to be right, so I invest the time to do it
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Steering Box replacement in a 1971 VW Bay Window Bus Reply with quote

Great write-up, I'm about to do the same on my '70 Bus.

A knowledgeable Bus guy told me to fill the steering box with standard molybdenum grease instead of the 90w gear oil normally used in these things. He contended this would not leak while providing the same lubrication to the gears.

Anyone tried this?
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Steering Box replacement in a 1971 VW Bay Window Bus Reply with quote

Several knowledgeable VW people told me it's a classic mistake... the grease ends up being pushed to the side and the cogs are left dry.
If VW put oil, it's for a reason, grease existed then.

Having said that, there are thicker oils these days that can work better than gearbox oil, and won't leak.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 9:08 am    Post subject: Re: Steering Box replacement in a 1971 VW Bay Window Bus Reply with quote

"Having said that, there are thicker oils these days that can work better than gearbox oil, and won't leak."

Thanks, pierrox. I tend to agree that if VW engineers did it a certain way in 1970, I should probably do the same, in most cases.

Any more info you can provide on those more modern gear oils that might perform better than the old stuff? Brand name, SAE specs, availability?
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 12:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Steering Box replacement in a 1971 VW Bay Window Bus Reply with quote

seem to remember a tread that talked about mixing oil and grease....
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 12:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Steering Box replacement in a 1971 VW Bay Window Bus Reply with quote

When I don't drive my bus, I ride a bike with a geared hub. There's a famous swiss builder of those who uses a special grease, I got some from him. It's a strange product: when in movement, it's rather fluid, and when it's not, it sort of solidifies. It's an amazing material.

It's called Shell Alvania Grease 0974 (formerly Alvania Grease GL 00). "Alvania Grease 0974 is a semi-fluid grease, which is used primarily in gear, drives calling for a semi-fluid grease. These gear drives are not well sealed and a conventional gearbox oil would leak out."

The primary use is for cranes and car lifts, where cogs don't spin fast but under pressure. The fact that it becomes more liquid under movement means it would never be pushed out of the gears inside the steering box. And it's pretty thick, so it wouldn't run out of the sbox.

The main problem is to get hold of some, it's usually sold in industrial quantities!
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Steering Box replacement in a 1971 VW Bay Window Bus Reply with quote

Millers oils has a special oil for old steering boxes.

http://www.millersoils.co.uk/automotive/tds-automotive.asp?prodsegmentID=153&sector=Classics
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Steering Box replacement in a 1971 VW Bay Window Bus Reply with quote

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=660446
that is a thread about rebuilding type 1/3 steering boxes. On one of the last pages there is some discussion on using "corn head grease" used for tractors. Seems depending on ambient temperatures where one lives this could be a viable option over standard gear oil.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 3:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Steering Box replacement in a 1971 VW Bay Window Bus Reply with quote

http://www.penriteoil.com.au/products.php?id_categ=14&id_products=90
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 7:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Steering Box replacement in a 1971 VW Bay Window Bus Reply with quote

[email protected] wrote:

I think bus boys is outta business.



They are indeed. Most of the people who need steering boxes are getting them from Wolfgang International:

https://www.wolfgangint.com/
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