Defective Replacement Thermostat Housing?

Paladin1006

Last Summer I replaced the exhaust manifolds on '91 Vanagon. It was quite a chore. Living in the salt belt sure takes a toll on metal. Removing the studs was the biggest problem. In order to access the studs on #3 cylinder, I had to chop my original thermostat housing off, and use vice grips on the bolts. I ordered/installed a new replacement plastic housing & thermostat. Right away, I noticed my temp gauge showing temps that were lower than before, getting lower as I drove. One day the temp went way too hot, and the LED started flashing. I pulled over expecting to find a wet undercarriage. Instead my coolant was boiling furiously. After it cooled, I dove home carefully and replaced the thermostat again. I noticed that the lower part of the thermostat was wedged down into the housing, and the upper part was open. I had to pull and wiggle the thermostat out, at which time it snapped shut. I installed the new one and had the same overheating problem, including the lower part of this second thermostat also wedging itself into the housing again. Now that it's Winter here in Chicago, my engine doesn't warm up. I get no heat up front at idle, sometimes no heat up front when driving, speeds over 50mph will make the low coolant indicator flash. I truly suspect that this replacement housing is improperly shaped. Why else would thermostat stick open? I even ground the edges of of the lower portion of one of the thermostats. thinking that might help. Nothing! Any ideas? I'm afraid I might have to replace that housing with one of those higher priced aluminum ones.

davideric9 · Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 6:26 pm Post subject:

I replaced mine yesterday with part from Van Cafe. Everything works great. Any chance you are installing the thermostat wrong? Maybe upside down? I've heard that you can get an air pocket around the thermostat and it will never open because the coolant won't get to it. Are you using the correct thermostat? you can try drilling a small 1/16 inch hole in the sill to allow air to pass through making sure it bleeds correctly.

Post a photo of the thermostat installed with the cover removed. That might answer a few questions....

Good luck
_________________
1987 Syncro Westfalia, stock (bought 1994)
1986 Syncro Westfalia SVX, 3 knob (bought 2008)
1987 Westfalia (bought 2010)
1988 Wolfsburg GL (bought 2012)

Paladin1006 · Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 6:36 pm Post subject:

Mine was from Van Cafe. I've never had any problems with their parts. The first thermostat was a Gates. The second is a Stant. Both are installed with the flat piece down. I don't know if there's room to install it upside down. Anyway, in this weather, I'm not in a hurry to drain the system down to open it up again. Where these things are located makes it so hard to look down into. This was totally unexpected. I've also read that the coolant flows through the crossover pipe in one direction with the thermostat open, and the other direction when it's closed. I sure wish these dang Vanagon cooling systems weren't so complicated. Btw, I wrote Van Cafe over the weekend explaining the problem. No reply yet. :-[

crazyvwvanman · Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 6:43 pm Post subject:

You probably should have bought the new thermostat from VanCafe too. Some of the aftermarket ones have the wrong size disc on the end, too big. Look at this photo and see if yours looks like it has the same diameter bypass disc.

http://www.van-cafe.com/home/van/page_169_679/thermostat-87-degree-stock-temperature.html

Mark

IdahoDoug · Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 6:57 pm Post subject:

The thermostat housing has two parts. A main body, and a top cap. Did you replace both of these parts, or just the lower main body? I ask because it sounds like you are saying the thermostat's lip is somehow not getting pinned between these two parts, and one of them is incorrect. There is literally no way a correct thermostat can rotate itself out of position so much that the thermostat's opening disc valve actually contacts the inner housing and hangs up. Even if you forgot the O ring that goes around the thermostat's edge.

So you definitely have an incorrect part if the top lid does not solidly pin the thermostat in place. I'm just wondering if you replaced both parts is all.

The overheat issue with a thermostat that can rotate out of position so badly would be due to an inability to properly bleed the system. Air remains, the water gets to easily boil because the air in the system prevents the build up of system pressure to push the boiling point of the water up to higher temps.

DougM
_________________
1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader

crazyvwvanman · Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 7:05 pm Post subject:

The wbx thermostat end disc size should be like the smaller one. Some aftermarket ones come with the too big disc that doesn't fit the housing right. Here, someone on here posted this a while back when he had the same issue.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Mark

IdahoDoug · Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 7:09 pm Post subject:

That was my other question - did you get the thermostat from VC?
_________________
1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader

SyncroChrick · Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 12:50 am Post subject:

Paladin1006 · Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 3:15 am Post subject: I see my WRONG Thermostat

Wow! That picture with the larger disc looks like I installed, TWICE! Both are listed as being the correct fit for this van. The Gates came from Rock Auto Parts, and the Stant came from Advance Auto Parts. I think we have the answer. More, like part numbers, when I come home from work. . . .

1vw4x4 · Banned Joined: June 22, 2005 Posts: 472 Location: Pgh. PA

I discovered this problem back in 1999. This thermostat did work, but not
well, in the original thermostat housing. I assume the original T-stat. housing is not available
anymore. What really bugs me is, after all the years, these parts are still haunting
the vanagon community. I can tell you this is becasue few people will
return these parts. If they are not returned the seller (and manufacture)
they assume the part works fine and keep selling them. SO, please send these back, even if you don't get a refund.

Good luck getting anything returned and refuned from Rockauto. I got a few water pumps from them that were missing the tube to the oil cooler. LSS, I had a difficult time getting a refund.

dobryan · Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:09 am Post subject: Re: I see my WRONG Thermostat

crazyvwvanman · Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:18 am Post subject:

This thermostat disc size problem has been known in the Vanagon community for about 20 years. Here, I think this was you Eric, back in 1997.

http://gerry.vanagon.com/cgi-bin/wa.exe?A2=ind9709&L=vanagon&P=R37874

Yes, Eric and I are both old timers with Vanagons. The same lessons have to get learned over and over. Buy parts from Vanagon vendors or risk a greater chance of getting a part that isn't right and that causes problems.

Mark

Paladin1006 · Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 5:01 pm Post subject:

I rechecked the parts listings online. Yes, both my Stant #13649 from Advance Auto Parts, and my Gates#33079, are both listed as a perfect fit for Vanagons, In fact, most of the thermostats listed on <http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/c2/thermostats-gaskets-housing/15023#> are the type with the large disc. They do list a Behr thermostat, and an "original equipment" thermostat. Rock Auto parts shows a lot of large disc thermostats that are all supposed to fit. Dang! Are we not supposed to trust or believe the parts listings? Rock does show one: "HELLA Part # TX2487D Behr Thermot-Tronik New Part Number - Replaces 2.112.87.312; w/Gasket". It's not the first time I've bought parts that were supposed to fit my car, truck, or van, and didn't. When they're not right, it's a pain. The thermostat I took out during the exhaust teardown got destroyed along with the housing, so I lost my reference. Lesson learned. Thanks! I ordered a new Behr thermostat from Van Cafe this morning. Thanks everyone!

dobryan · Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 5:55 pm Post subject:

Paladin1006 · Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 9:05 am Post subject:

Well, I'd posted about having ordered a Behr thermostat from Van Cafe. Wrong! I was looking at something else when I posted that. I ordered a Wahler thermostat from Van Cafe. I also stopped in at Advance Auto Parts to explain the problem of these incorrect thermostats being listed as direct-fit replacements for Vanagons. They were stumped, but curious, when I showed them the Stant and the Wahler. They refunded my money, which I hadn't expected, and were busy notifying their higher-ups about the inaccurate, misleading listing. There really are very few correct thermostats for our Vanagons. Thank God for forums like this one! :-]


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