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remerus Samba Member
Joined: March 02, 2014 Posts: 109
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Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 2:24 pm Post subject: 36hp vs 40hp warm-up control ring rod differences (I.e length) |
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Hi Chaps,
I have searched the hell out of air control, control ring, thermostat etc...
The best I could come up with was that one person eluded to the control ring rods between the 36hp and 40hp being different lengths, the 40hp being longer. If so cans someone enlighten me to the differences in length please.
And any other differences in the control ring setups in general would be a great help.
A bit of background I have a Australian 63 beetle which still had the control ring setup. and I am trying to restore that setup to my bug.
Cheers Chris |
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remerus Samba Member
Joined: March 02, 2014 Posts: 109
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Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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Anyone?  |
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79SuperVert Samba Member

Joined: May 31, 2002 Posts: 9758 Location: Elizabeth, NJ & La Isla Del Encanto
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Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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I guess you saw this thread, which seems to address a lot of the differences, so what questions remain unanswered?
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=201996&highlight=control+ring _________________ Central Jersey VW Society
Wanted: Art Collins VW (Savannah, Georgia) items - license plate surrounds and other items. Also ivory "AM", "FM" and "SW" buttons for a US Blaupunkt Frankfurt. |
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remerus Samba Member
Joined: March 02, 2014 Posts: 109
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Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:04 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the reply 79supervert, that is one of the threads yes.
I want the actual length of the 40hp rod as I do not have one at hand to measure myself. I find that a lot of sellers don't know what They are selling half of the time so it would be nice to be able to discern between the two having a known length of at least one of the rods so I can differentiate.
I also wanted to clarify that they were indeed different lengths as the thread you mention was the only place on the site ( at least that I could find ) that mentions any reference to length at all, where as any other information I have searched in the past has mentioning multiple times so the second opinion is available to me. Another point might be that anyone who finds themselves needing this info in future can have access to it with relative ease.. No?
Last edited by remerus on Thu Jul 24, 2014 2:19 am; edited 2 times in total |
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EverettB  Administrator

Joined: April 11, 2000 Posts: 70937 Location: Phoenix 602
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remerus Samba Member
Joined: March 02, 2014 Posts: 109
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Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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EverettB wrote: |
I don't have one to measure that I know for a fact is correct for a 40hp.
The ones I have saved as 36hp (they have correct 36hp thermostats attached) are approx. 184mm.
I have some other loose rods that look the same but are 194mm.
So maybe the longer ones are 40hp? |
Thanks for that info EverettB I will post my findings when I get the two I ordered in the post.
Chris |
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EverettB  Administrator

Joined: April 11, 2000 Posts: 70937 Location: Phoenix 602
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remerus Samba Member
Joined: March 02, 2014 Posts: 109
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Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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EverettB wrote: |
I found notes from someone else saying the 40hp stale air and 40 fresh air are also different but I don't know if that is true or the difference. |
Cheers mate. I am still searching though the net for an answer but if you come up with anything else in the meantime please let me know.
Chris |
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Aussie63 Samba Member
Joined: January 11, 2012 Posts: 51 Location: UK
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Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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I have a stock '63 Aussie bug still with its original 40hp engine. I'm using the control ring setup. Had no idea there were different lengths?! The one I'm using came from a 36hp engine but it works perfectly, everything is aligned and fits as per the Bentley manual. So my suggestion is just to use what you've got, it won't affect the performance of the thermostat. |
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remerus Samba Member
Joined: March 02, 2014 Posts: 109
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Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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Aussie63 wrote: |
I have a stock '63 Aussie bug still with its original 40hp engine. I'm using the control ring setup. Had no idea there were different lengths?! The one I'm using came from a 36hp engine but it works perfectly, everything is aligned and fits as per the Bentley manual. So my suggestion is just to use what you've got, it won't affect the performance of the thermostat. |
thanks mate I'll give it a try. I would still like to get to the bottom of the above questions.
just off topic slightly did you notice any differences with your 63 after you installed the setup of your 40? |
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Aussie63 Samba Member
Joined: January 11, 2012 Posts: 51 Location: UK
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Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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No problem. And yes differences are it doesn't hesitate in the colder weather, runs a bit quieter, you get heating quicker in the car and obviously I'm prolonging the life of my engine  |
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EverettB  Administrator

Joined: April 11, 2000 Posts: 70937 Location: Phoenix 602
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remerus Samba Member
Joined: March 02, 2014 Posts: 109
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Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you for the update and the help Everett and everyone else. |
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herbie1200 Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2006 Posts: 836 Location: Rome - Italy
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Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 12:47 am Post subject: Re: 36hp vs 40hp Control ring rod differences (I.e length) |
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I resume this old post because the argument is very singular
On my 6V 1200cc I exchanged the "ring" fan shroud with the "flap" shroud from a '70 12V 1200cc, mantaining the original 6V generator with its flange.
All ok except for 2 issues:
1) I had to cut 4 small 'U' on engine tin to accomodate flap rods
2) thermostat (well working alone) seems to have difficulty to fully pulling the rod to open flaps.
So my two questions:
1) could be rod lenght different between "ring" fan shroud and flaps fan shroud? (both from a 1200cc - fresh air)
2) can I simply cut a 4-5mm from the rod threaded end, it will be enough, and remount all or should I re-thread the rod end?
Thanks |
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EverettB  Administrator

Joined: April 11, 2000 Posts: 70937 Location: Phoenix 602
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tasb  The Distributor Distributor
Joined: April 27, 2002 Posts: 6515 Location: Pentwater, Michigan
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Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 9:06 am Post subject: Re: 36hp vs 40hp Control ring rod differences (I.e length) |
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Sorry I couldn't come up with a metric ruler, I'm in a bit of a hurry this mroning. perhaps this will help?
_________________ Roads Scholar &
1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equipped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018
1965 hardtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc
1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse
Member# 2059 |
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tasb  The Distributor Distributor
Joined: April 27, 2002 Posts: 6515 Location: Pentwater, Michigan
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Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 10:18 am Post subject: Re: 36hp vs 40hp Control ring rod differences (I.e length) |
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And just in case we are talking about the rods that attach directly to the thermostat:
_________________ Roads Scholar &
1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equipped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018
1965 hardtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc
1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse
Member# 2059 |
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herbie1200 Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2006 Posts: 836 Location: Rome - Italy
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Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 6:28 am Post subject: Re: 36hp vs 40hp Control ring rod differences (I.e length) |
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Thank you, good pictures.
From what I see the rods to the thermostat (talking about them) look very different so there is no chance to exchange one with each other.
So my problem (thermostat does not fully close flaps) is due to a tired spring or a rod deformation.
I'm going to shorten it... |
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tasb  The Distributor Distributor
Joined: April 27, 2002 Posts: 6515 Location: Pentwater, Michigan
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Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 10:06 am Post subject: Re: 36hp vs 40hp Control ring rod differences (I.e length) |
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I had to search through my stash to find thermostat rods that were not bent for one reason or another. _________________ Roads Scholar &
1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equipped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018
1965 hardtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc
1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse
Member# 2059 |
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hazetguy Samba Member

Joined: April 06, 2001 Posts: 10782 Location: iT StiNgeD iTseLf tO dEAd
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Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:35 pm Post subject: Re: 36hp vs 40hp Control ring rod differences (I.e length) |
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Tim, I have no idea what the lower rod in your picture fits. can't say I've ever seen one with such a dramatic bent portion at the bottom. how would it attach to a thermostat bellows?
for future reference:
Comparing 36hp to 40hp stale air thermostat parts.
Most parts are not interchangeable due to dimensional differences.
36hp on the top, 40hp on the bottom.
Aside from the thermostat throttle ring and its mounting hardware, and the thermostat bellows (for the most part), these are the pieces that are interchangeable between 36hp and 40hp:
Tension spring, mounting hardware for pivot piece, "C" clip that holds the throttle ring pivot piece to the stud, 15mm long bolt and flat washer for the thermostat bellows.
At a quick glance, the pivot piece looks the same. However, the arm is offset differently between 36hp and 40hp.
Theoretically you can use a 36hp arm on a 40hp, but not the other way around (it will hit the engine tin).
36hp on the top, 40hp on the bottom.
Dimensionally, the thermostat throttle ring pivot piece is longer on a 40hp.
Overall length of the throttle ring pivot stud is longer on a 40hp. Threaded part is nominally longer, but the non threaded portion is longer.
36hp is shorter, and the rod is fairly straight. It also has a shorter bend at the bottom.
40hp is longer, and incorporates more bends in it.
36hp on LEFT, 40hp on RIGHT.
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