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manxvair
Samba Member
Joined: January 11, 2011
Posts: 231
Location: Arizona
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 Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:07 am Post subject: Re: Franken-Manx |
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| Gary0302 wrote: |
| manxvair wrote: |
Many people have survived Baja with a stock travel suspension, Bruce Meyers & Ted Mangels had stock suspension when they set the original record down Baja in Old Red, Vic Wilson & Ted also won the 1st Baja 1000 in the stock suspension #10 Meyers Manx, Jon in the #9 El Gusano Manx runs a stock dimension king pin/swing axle chassis with tremendous success. Juan in the #1100 Legend class fiberglass buggy is very good in his ball joint/IRS car. In 2015 & 2017 the #166 Subie-Tow’d entry ran with a VW ball joint, type 181 front suspension. Let’s also not forget how many and how popular the Class 11 VW sedans are with stock suspension dimensions. The VW suspension is very capable & durable in it’s own right. |
Technically speaking, it appears that the actual definition of a vehicle suspension includes all of the following: The suspension system consists of tires, the air in the tires, springs, shock absorbers, struts, arms, bars, linkages, bushings, and joints.
So, unless the vehicles you listed above were all running the exact tires, springs, shock absorbers, struts, arms, bars, linkages, bushings, and joints (as the original VW model would have had on the showroom floor), they were not running stock suspensions.
Also, and according to other reports that I have read, Old Red was actually using a non-VW rear suspension. Here is one example, from silodrone.com:
"The vehicle used for the Tijuana to La Paz record attempt was “Old Red”, Bruce’s first beach buggy complete with Chevy pickup rear suspension. Bruce and Ted Mangels made their departure from Tijuana at 10:00pm on April 19th, 1967, and arrived in La Paz 34 hours and 45 minutes later, shaving more than five hours off the time set by the motorcycle team."
Manxvair, if this information is incorrect, I will be happy to supply you with the link, so that you can suggest a correction yourself. After all, we do want to be correct in our postings, yes? |
Gary, interpret it any way you want, I stated things like stock travel suspension, stock dimension, stock suspension dimensions, I did not claim them to be "Original" |
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joescoolcustoms
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2006
Posts: 9054
Location: West By God Virginia
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| Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:41 am Post subject: Re: Franken-Manx |
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Starting to pick the fly shit out of the manure. That is enough of that, and can be continued in the off road forum, but no more here.
I do not post in the off road forums because those guys will debate the validity of a bolt being 2 mm longer than another. If you want that, go find it elsewhere.
I post here to show different ways of building things in encouragement for new hobby members who doubt themselves and that they can do things, and not to be afraid to make mistakes.
I built stockish with the Puzzle Manx, I am building something else this thread.
Let us move on.
_________________
Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in Class
Best Day Ever Racing 2022 NORRA 1000 2nd in Class and first All Female team to complete the race
Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.
Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone |
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dustymojave
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007
Posts: 5802
Location: Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
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| Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 5:10 pm Post subject: Re: Franken-Manx |
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Not to mention that silodrone.com was apparently SERIOUSLY mis-informed.
Look up pictures of Ol' Red and see the stock VW swingaxle rear suspension under it.
I agree with Joe about picking the fly shit out of the manure pile though. I don't quite agree about the HBBOffroad Forum guys getting into 2mm differences in bolts. That's more the realm of some of the other forums about Bugs and busses, and somewhat in the realm of discussions about vacuum advance distributors. 
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Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet. |
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dustymojave
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007
Posts: 5802
Location: Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
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| Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 5:50 pm Post subject: Re: Franken-Manx |
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Oh, And Joe, I'd like to see what you have on the chassis for this beast. I get the impression that a chassis has been created, and is waiting for this body.20" of rear travel is doable with much longer arms. Tough to achieve with stock length arms. The 5/1600 Baja Bugs my son races in (team won the class in the 2019 Baja 1000) achieve a supposed 17" of rear travel with +1 arms and microstub hubs. I have doubts about those claimed numbers. The Crumco 5 unlimited race and play Baja Bugs that my son builds achieve up to 24" of rear travel with far longer arms that would not put the rear tires under the rear fenders of a Manx body. Not to mention that the 35" tires combined with that much travel will tear the fenders off the Manx even with a 3" body lift.
So let's see what will go under this old body.
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Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet. |
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joescoolcustoms
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2006
Posts: 9054
Location: West By God Virginia
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| Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:28 pm Post subject: Re: Franken-Manx |
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| dustymojave wrote: |
Oh, And Joe, I'd like to see what you have on the chassis for this beast. I get the impression that a chassis has been created, and is waiting for this body.20" of rear travel is doable with much longer arms. Tough to achieve with stock length arms. The 5/1600 Baja Bugs my son races in (team won the class in the 2019 Baja 1000) achieve a supposed 17" of rear travel with +1 arms and microstub hubs. I have doubts about those claimed numbers. The Crumco 5 unlimited race and play Baja Bugs that my son builds achieve up to 24" of rear travel with far longer arms that would not put the rear tires under the rear fenders of a Manx body. Not to mention that the 35" tires combined with that much travel will tear the fenders off the Manx even with a 3" body lift.
So let's see what will go under this old body. |
I like trying different approaches to building cars. I lost count about 10 years ago when I passed 200 different custom builds. This one I am going at it in a totally different way than any other I have done. The chassis will be done, and rolling before ever fitting a body. So the body will get fit to clear all travel. First time for me that the body is the last thought in the process.
And your suspecting is correct, these are one off rear arms with a pivot close to 30 inches from axle centerline to front pivot centerline. For reference, stock is about 16 5/8". The forward pivot will almost be up under the rear of the seats, about 6 inches forward than normal. Helps change the instant center and high speed handling.
Another approach that is totally different than my normal is the chassis is going to be 100% chromoly. 0.120 wall tubing on all structural members with 0.090 only on non-stress uses like body support, radiator support, light supports/stands, and so forth.
I rebuilt the Puzzle Manx for one race. This one is being built for multiple races. A lot of time was taken during concept and starting the chassis. I have not been relaxing on my backside since '18.
_________________
Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in Class
Best Day Ever Racing 2022 NORRA 1000 2nd in Class and first All Female team to complete the race
Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.
Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone |
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joescoolcustoms
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2006
Posts: 9054
Location: West By God Virginia
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| Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2020 9:43 am Post subject: Re: Franken-Manx |
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Last week I picked up the "Monster" and brought it to WV for finishing, that includes hanging an original Meyers Manx body on it. Before we started this adventure, I spoke to both Bruce and Winnie Meyers about this project and received their blessing. Winnie was skeptical that it will look good. Bruce was optimistic that it will, So I have a 50/50 chance it will look good once done.
But with the state the body is in, this is about the best chance for that body to be used and gain back some of it's former glory.
The chassis is 100% 0.120 wall Chromoly and TIG Welded. EPS, (Electric Power Steering), 12 inch over front beam. 25 gallon fuel cell. Newly built and dynoed 210 horse 2.4 VVT Ecotec engine. Rancho prepped 091 transaxle. I have not measured the wheel travel yet, but appears we are right at my initial estimates.
Now the body work starts. And is a challenge in both repair and fitting.
_________________
Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in Class
Best Day Ever Racing 2022 NORRA 1000 2nd in Class and first All Female team to complete the race
Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.
Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone |
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BuggyFaron
Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2005
Posts: 441
Location: Canyon Lake, Texas
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| Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2020 9:47 am Post subject: Re: Franken-Manx |
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| I am really looking forward to seeing where this goes from here! Thank you for keeping us up to date as you go along. |
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GS guy
Samba Member
Joined: December 03, 2007
Posts: 968
Location: Maryland
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| Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2020 1:35 pm Post subject: Re: Franken-Manx |
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Looks like "Puzzle Manx II" - the 1000 piece version!  
Can't even imagine how much massaging (and "piecing) a Manx body will require to ease its way onto that chassis.
That bad boy looks like it's ready for King of the Hammers Joe!
Jeff
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70's vintage Deserter GS buggy - undergoing transformation to Super GS! |
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joescoolcustoms
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2006
Posts: 9054
Location: West By God Virginia
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| Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2021 11:00 pm Post subject: Re: Franken-Manx |
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Making Progress towards NORRA.
CAR's buggy (Class Act Racing) DSBE is nearing initial completion.
The Monster has a long way to go, but it is progressing at a rate to meet the deadline ahead of schedule.
Built an exhaust for it using a "slightly" used 2 stage Flowmaster muffler.
Made patterns for the window nets and sent them off for custom fabrication. Kartek no longer does this, and PRP is way backed up. So I found someone closer to home in Indy IN. They are required to be SFi Approved, and dated.
These meet the exact SFi spec for window net design in the chassis. Cannot move a 3" ball out anywhere around the net perimeter and tubing. Non of the mounting is outboard of the tubing.
Same design fits both sides.
_________________
Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in Class
Best Day Ever Racing 2022 NORRA 1000 2nd in Class and first All Female team to complete the race
Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.
Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone |
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Cheeze
Samba Member
Joined: January 20, 2018
Posts: 30
Location: Nevada
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| Posted: Fri Mar 05, 2021 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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| joescoolcustoms wrote: |
Wow! This poor body has had to have suffered a hard hit in the front. Then fell into the hands of a hackasourous. The front section, in front of the fuel tank has been "repaired", but has broken loose. All the repairs were done on top of the original body, so they "lifted" the surface higher. All the former repairs will have to be removed before I can even see what is what.
The leading edge of the hood has metal installed to keep it stable. I will order a new hood from Winnie.
At Marc's workshop:
Last year, 2013, wvbowtieman and I made this same trip, on this same day after a Halloween Friday to pick up his Moss Green Manx from Marc. Wonder if this will happen next year?
Loaded in the rain, (rained on us when we were loading David's body, and cold) and readied for the trip to WV.
At home in WV, just a few shots of the severely beaten front section, firewall, hood and under the body lip. The tubes are in place, but looks like someone ran a fuel line under the lip too. Wow!
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That body looks a lot like mine. I think the hoods are a little different though. |
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