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adv rider
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 11:47 pm    Post subject: Re: d15 Reply with quote

My 1991 stalls after 10-20 minutes of running and wont restart for 20-30 minutes. In that time ,I lose spark and injector pulse.[/quote]

I had this problem about 2 month's ago. I replaced the ignition switch, considering I didn't know how old it was. Thought it was fixed... It happened again. I replaced the hall sensor in the distributor- Hasn't stalled since. That was about 1500 miles ago.

EDIT: I am not sure about the spark, injector pulse. I just had a random stalling issue.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A cold solder joint can lead to intermittent electrical connection and screw up any sensor that uses resistance to measure something - temperature, crank sensor, etc.

The post above described how to avoid this perfectly - apply heat to the cleaned and mechanically connected wires, then apply the solder to the heated wires. If the heated wires flow the solder, you will get a good joint. You can reheat the wires/solder to make sure it flows in well, too.
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crazyvwvanman
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 3:50 pm    Post subject: Re: d15 Reply with quote

Yes, it could. The failing pin D15 of the fuse panel has caused a lot of such problems. More tests should be done though. A simple one is to open the black relay box in the engine compartment, left side above the ignition coil. Nothing in there but 2 relays and wires to the relays. Someone should put their fingers on the relays while someone else turnes the key on and off a few times. The relays should be felt to click each time. The relay on the left is turned on from the key over the wire coming from pin D15. If that relay clicks each time then the wire from D15 is doing something and the problem is likely elsewhere. Of course this simple test must be done during that time when the engine has died and won't start.

Mark

benbear1122 wrote:
Would this problem cause an intermittant stall and no start? My 1991 stalls after 10-20 minutes of running and wont restart for 20-30 minutes. In that time ,I lose spark and injector pulse.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 12:41 pm    Post subject: Re: d15 Reply with quote

crazyvwvanman wrote:
If it turns out to be a burned pin D15 then you can jumper around the bad connection. The key switch has a black wire from it to the fuse panel on pin A8 and then it leaves the fuse panel on D15. You can jumper between the black wire on A8 and the black wire on D15. You can't cut the wire to A8 though as it sends power to the fuse panel for other reasons in addition to feeding D15 (and D23).

The VW dealer sells new pins with a short wire attached to them. I don't have the part number handy for the larger pin size so that D23 could be used. That is what we need to do long term, move the black wire from weak pin D15 to heavy pin D23. I will look into that again.

Mark


adv rider wrote:
Ok, I see. Expecting to see a melted D15 in the morning, without seeing everything I cant picture using D23 as an alternative. Is this the best way to go? Can I jump this wire at the fuse panel to make it work?
.....
Would this problem cause an intermittant stall and no start? My 1991 stalls after 10-20 minutes of running and wont restart for 20-30 minutes. In that time ,I lose spark and injector pulse.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 5:53 pm    Post subject: no start Reply with quote

I just want to give another BIG , THANK YOU! to crazyvwvanman for the knowledge,and patience to be able to guide me through the repair of my van. You saved my vacation. Leaving in morning for Crankworx in Whistler,b.c. . Very Happy Very Happy

Also Thanks to everyone else for the tips/advice.
Hopefully that is the only problem I have for this trip.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Merian wrote:
congrats on finding another VW design deficiency

you know to make a good mechanical junction between the 2 wires before soldering, right?


I am not sure i know how to make a good mechanical junction. I just wire brushed the connection area,wrapped the new wire and soldered. covered with liquid electrical tape.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

congrats on finding another VW design deficiency

you know to make a good mechanical junction between the 2 wires before soldering, right?
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 9:34 am    Post subject: no start Reply with quote

[i Thank you, I need it. Our vacation is counting on the van.leaving for Crankworx on Sunday morning. I learned a bunch with this fix.But it sure was stressful. Now onto the brakes.[/i]
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You should be good then. Using the correct electrical solder, I melt a little on the tip of my gun and then heat the wire with the tip. I touch the solder to the wire, not the tip to melt it in. If done right, it flows right into the copper with minimal effort. Good luck.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 8:53 am    Post subject: solder Reply with quote

It feels tight on the wire,I tried several times to make the solder better.I just started van,and has same voltage on both ends.I don't know about amps though.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 8:47 am    Post subject: Re: no start Reply with quote

adv rider wrote:
It sure is hard soldering old wire to new wire. Very ugly clump of solder Embarassed
But it will work for now.some liquid electric tape,and reassembly.


That sounds odd. I use old wire all the time and if the copper is shined up a little, have had no problems. What type of solder did you use? You don't want a "cold" solder joint. One that appears connected but won't pass current.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 8:45 am    Post subject: Re: no start Reply with quote

Yes, it sometimes helps to melt solder to the old wire first, then wrap the new wire over that and solder it all together.

Mark

adv rider wrote:
It sure is hard soldering old wire to new wire. Very ugly clump of solder Embarassed
But it will work for now.some liquid electric tape,and reassembly.
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adv rider
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 8:42 am    Post subject: no start Reply with quote

It sure is hard soldering old wire to new wire. Very ugly clump of solder Embarassed
But it will work for now.some liquid electric tape,and reassembly.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 7:47 am    Post subject: Re: No start Reply with quote

A8 is key-on power into the fuse/relay panel. D15 is some of that power going out of the panel to the engine compartment. So yes, soldering a wire between the black wire at A8 and the black wire at D15 should take care of your problem. Don't cut the A8 wire off though, other things in the panel need it.

Mark


adv rider wrote:
OK, I got to D15-yes its burnt up,and has corrosion on backside from being probed. I am very hopeful at this point,but.. when you mentioned jumper fromA8 to D15, do you mean side to side? D15 is the exit of fuse panel,so I assume it is for A8 also. So I could just solder in a wire between? or did you mean some other type of jump?
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 7:29 am    Post subject: No start Reply with quote

OK, I got to D15-yes its burnt up,and has corrosion on backside from being probed. I am very hopeful at this point,but.. when you mentioned jumper fromA8 to D15, do you mean side to side? D15 is the exit of fuse panel,so I assume it is for A8 also. So I could just solder in a wire between? or did you mean some other type of jump?

I got it,used jumper wire after stripping back some shielding. It started right up Razz . So now what is the trick to soldering to this old wire? I can't get it to stick,works fine on the new wire.
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Last edited by adv rider on Thu Aug 07, 2014 8:25 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 6:37 am    Post subject: Re: d15 Reply with quote

If it turns out to be a burned pin D15 then you can jumper around the bad connection. The key switch has a black wire from it to the fuse panel on pin A8 and then it leaves the fuse panel on D15. You can jumper between the black wire on A8 and the black wire on D15. You can't cut the wire to A8 though as it sends power to the fuse panel for other reasons in addition to feeding D15 (and D23).

The VW dealer sells new pins with a short wire attached to them. I don't have the part number handy for the larger pin size so that D23 could be used. That is what we need to do long term, move the black wire from weak pin D15 to heavy pin D23. I will look into that again.

Mark


adv rider wrote:
Ok, I see. Expecting to see a melted D15 in the morning, without seeing everything I cant picture using D23 as an alternative. Is this the best way to go? Can I jump this wire at the fuse panel to make it work?
.....
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 11:17 pm    Post subject: d15 Reply with quote

Ok, I see. Expecting to see a melted D15 in the morning, without seeing everything I cant picture using D23 as an alternative. Is this the best way to go? Can I jump this wire at the fuse panel to make it work?

I hope the VW dealer might have some pins, otherwise...is there another type available at FLAPS?

Thank you Mark for all the electrical guidance you have given me.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 10:09 pm    Post subject: Re: no start Reply with quote

That is good progress. I assume you do have the wiring bypass tool completely unhooked during the voltage testing.

If the source wire has good voltage when unplugged from things down stream but loses the voltage when connected to them it can only mean one thing. The things downstream are drawing more current than the source can provide. So either the source is very weak or the draw is very strong. A weak source is the much more likely issue and known to occur. Have you heard about the D15 wiring pin failure that has come up here in various vans? The black wire in the wiring box comes from pin D15 of the dash fuse/relay panel. This is for 86-91 vans.

If you search this site you should find photos and examples of other people who have had this failure.

Mark

adv rider wrote:

Thank you for the tips. I found the black wire, checked voltage- key on 12.6, check other side of connector-none. I was super excited, thought I was onto repairing it. replaced connector-no voltage, unplug and it Voltage. hmmm... it has voltage when unplugged, but none when connected. These are all yellow single pin connectors.

Does the loss of voltage when connected mean it has a bad ground?
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 9:17 pm    Post subject: Re: no start Reply with quote

crazyvwvanman wrote:
You can fix this. There are only a few places where the trouble could be.

The key switch circuit has a black wire leaving it that takes power back to the engine compartment and powers the coil. I would start in the back. There is a black plastic wiring box in the corner. Open it up and find the black wires in there. That is where power comes from the key switch. The source black wire comes in from the side in a bundle with wires of other colors. Find that source black wire. The check for a connector or two in the box along that black wire and make sure they are clean and tight. Just the black wires. Use a voltmeter to test the source black wire for power when the key is on.

Mark


Thank you for the tips. I found the black wire, checked voltage- key on 12.6, check other side of connector-none. I was super excited, thought I was onto repairing it. replaced connector-no voltage, unplug and it Voltage. hmmm... it has voltage when unplugged, but none when connected. These are all yellow single pin connectors.

Does the loss of voltage when connected mean it has a bad ground?
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 8:22 pm    Post subject: Re: no start Reply with quote

You can fix this. There are only a few places where the trouble could be.

The key switch circuit has a black wire leaving it that takes power back to the engine compartment and powers the coil. I would start in the back. There is a black plastic wiring box in the corner. Open it up and find the black wires in there. That is where power comes from the key switch. The source black wire comes in from the side in a bundle with wires of other colors. Find that source black wire. The check for a connector or two in the box along that black wire and make sure they are clean and tight. Just the black wires. Use a voltmeter to test the source black wire for power when the key is on.

Mark



adv rider wrote:
Going thru Pro training manual: check for battery+ at terminal 15, with ignition coil on- if no voltage present . Repair wiring harness, well yeah... It would be nice to know where to look/and or test.

Has anyone dealt with this, and just added a power wire from somewhere else? How has it held up long term, and is there anything bad/unsafe about doing this? Thanks
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