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lemke
Samba Troll
Joined: February 24, 2004
Posts: 1249
Location: Seattle
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 Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 4:09 pm Post subject: A question about the Hoover Bit |
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Hello, I have searched and still I am not sure - can I install a hoover bit without removing the oil cooler?
Excuse me if this has been addressed before. |
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Brian
Samba Moderator
Joined: May 28, 2012
Posts: 8340
Location: Oceanside
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| Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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yes, but the shroud will be in the way its still in the car.
There are two nuts that hold the cooler in place that you remove and slide the bit on.
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lemke
Samba Troll
Joined: February 24, 2004
Posts: 1249
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Brian wrote: |
yes, but the shroud will be in the way its still in the car.
There are two nuts that hold the cooler in place that you remove and slide the bit on. |
Thanks, Brian - I have the engine out of my car. I understand that I have to lift up the fan shroud, of course. I just did not want to have to remove the oil cooler to install the Hoover bit. I wanted to know this before I ordered one. |
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Tony Hutchinson
Samba Member
Joined: October 10, 2006
Posts: 47
Location: Durham england
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| Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 1:38 am Post subject: |
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| Why is this part known as the hoover? |
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Mr.Duncan
Samba Member
Joined: May 12, 2012
Posts: 3542
Location: Houston, TX
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| Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 6:24 am Post subject: |
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| Tony Hutchinson wrote: |
| Why is this part known as the hoover? |
Bob Hoover was a man that stressed about how important that part was, thus its now called "the hoover bit"
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lemke
Samba Troll
Joined: February 24, 2004
Posts: 1249
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Well, the answer is NO you do not have to remove your oil cooler to install a hoover bit. |
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johnnypan
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2007
Posts: 7431
Location: sackamenna
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Mr.Duncan wrote: |
| Tony Hutchinson wrote: |
| Why is this part known as the hoover? |
Bob Hoover was a man that stressed about how important that part was, thus its now called "the hoover bit" |
That issue of importance is debatable.. |
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Zundfolge1432 
Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2004
Posts: 12468
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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| johnnypan wrote: |
| Mr.Duncan wrote: |
| Tony Hutchinson wrote: |
| Why is this part known as the hoover? |
Bob Hoover was a man that stressed about how important that part was, thus its now called "the hoover bit" |
That issue of importance is debatable.. |
Hmmmmm on this I'd have to side with old Bob,and heres why. In addition to helping direct air through the cooler instead of around it, it also helps prevent the possibility of leaky seals because the bolt which comes through the fan shroud helps stabilize and perhaps cut down on vibration of cooler. In addition to the Hoover bit I also glue the foam on the outside of the cooler again to direct the air through the cooler. The original rubber seals that sealed the three pieces of sheet metal are usually long gone now but we use speed tape and seal this 100%. So if you do all things I mentioned along with a functioning thermostat you've done everything you can to replicate what the factory did and you'll have a properly cooled engine.
Years ago I talked to Bob privately and people must realize he was a technical writer by trade so he wrote beautiful posts full of info, humor and his outlook on life. Bob in my opinion was not ready for the Internet because after he poured out his heart and wrote his book of sermons a certain group of people tried to capitalize on this by copying his work by selling it for profit without his consent or approval at car shows and at least one business which shall remain nameless. He responded by going underground and withdrawing from the message boards,what a shame and a loss to us all. A very few people truly fuked it up for us all, thanks guys. Sorry for the rant but Bob deserves more credit and was dealt a shitty hand. |
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miller0358
Samba Member
Joined: November 07, 2007
Posts: 1200
Location: northford,ct
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 7:56 pm Post subject: hoover bit |
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| As long as your taking off the shroud it might be a good time to replace the cooler seals. Jeff |
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johnnypan
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2007
Posts: 7431
Location: sackamenna
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Zundfolge1432 wrote: |
| johnnypan wrote: |
| Mr.Duncan wrote: |
| Tony Hutchinson wrote: |
| Why is this part known as the hoover? |
Bob Hoover was a man that stressed about how important that part was, thus its now called "the hoover bit" |
That issue of importance is debatable.. |
Hmmmmm on this I'd have to side with old Bob,and heres why. In addition to helping direct air through the cooler instead of around it, it also helps prevent the possibility of leaky seals because the bolt which comes through the fan shroud helps stabilize and perhaps cut down on vibration of cooler. In addition to the Hoover bit I also glue the foam on the outside of the cooler again to direct the air through the cooler. The original rubber seals that sealed the three pieces of sheet metal are usually long gone now but we use speed tape and seal this 100%. So if you do all things I mentioned along with a functioning thermostat you've done everything you can to replicate what the factory did and you'll have a properly cooled engine.
Years ago I talked to Bob privately and people must realize he was a technical writer by trade so he wrote beautiful posts full of info, humor and his outlook on life. Bob in my opinion was not ready for the Internet because after he poured out his heart and wrote his book of sermons a certain group of people tried to capitalize on this by copying his work by selling it for profit without his consent or approval at car shows and at least one business which shall remain nameless. He responded by going underground and withdrawing from the message boards,what a shame and a loss to us all. A very few people truly fuked it up for us all, thanks guys. Sorry for the rant but Bob deserves more credit and was dealt a shitty hand. |
Don't desire to denigrate Hoover,he was a sharp cat..Ive run engines with and without bits and cant tell the difference,The Volkswagen fan is volumetric,directed air is a positive,but not a necessity for the cooler to be effcient.. |
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lemke
Samba Troll
Joined: February 24, 2004
Posts: 1249
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 9:01 pm Post subject: Re: hoover bit |
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| miller0358 wrote: |
| As long as your taking off the shroud it might be a good time to replace the cooler seals. Jeff |
Thank you for the advice, Jeff.
I was all about doing that - until I read about it here:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=501169
Now I'm like: let sleeping dogs lie. My cooler shows no sign of leakage, and of it does in the future, I will deal with it then. |
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Aussiebug
Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2002
Posts: 2162
Location: Adelaide Australia
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 5:27 am Post subject: |
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| johnnypan wrote: |
Don't desire to denigrate Hoover,he was a sharp cat..Ive run engines with and without bits and cant tell the difference,The Volkswagen fan is volumetric,directed air is a positive,but not a necessity for the cooler to be effcient.. |
Come on Jonnypan, how can the cooler possibly be "efficient" if it's not getting all the air directed it's supposed to get - if the Hover bit is missing a LOT of air ducted to the oil cooler is leaking out the bottom and not going through the cooler, so it cant be efficient. Why use horsepower to make cooling airflow then waste it?
Engines will survive without it, but almost certainly for a shorter life span. And in hot weather when cooling becomes especially critical, you are more likely to have overheating issues if the Hoover Bit is missing. About 40% of all VW engine cooling happens in the oil cooler, so a loss of cooling air there will certainly affect the overall engine cooling. Lucky for us they are quite tolerant engines, and will cope with a lot of stuff missing which SHOULD be there for the best engine life.
Bob was a great guy, and even though he was a crusty old curmudgeon I had a lot of interesting emails with him before his death. I'm certainly delighted he got his name in the history of VWs with an essential part named after him.
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Rob and Dave's aircooled VW pages
Repairs and maintenance for the home mechanic
http://www.vw-resource.com |
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johnnypan
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2007
Posts: 7431
Location: sackamenna
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 7:54 am Post subject: |
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| The cooler does receive all the air its going to get whether you use the bit or not,its a volume style fan. You will gain some flow direction using the bit but its efficiency is debatable..and yes a nice touch to honor him. |
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Tony Hutchinson
Samba Member
Joined: October 10, 2006
Posts: 47
Location: Durham england
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 10:49 am Post subject: |
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| 'All I said was, "That piece of halibut was good enough for Jehovah."' |
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johnnypan
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2007
Posts: 7431
Location: sackamenna
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Aussiebug
Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2002
Posts: 2162
Location: Adelaide Australia
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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| johnnypan wrote: |
| The cooler does receive all the air its going to get whether you use the bit or not,its a volume style fan. You will gain some flow direction using the bit but its efficiency is debatable..and yes a nice touch to honor him. |
All fans blow a volume of air, the difference is that the VW fan also works at about 5psi above atmospheric pressure, so it's not JUST volume (25cf/sec at 4000 engine rpm for the doghouse fan) but 5 PSI positive pressure (as measured by Bob Hoover! in one of his many VW articles).
So any gaps in the cooling system will leak precious air and reduce the pressure inside the fan shroud which then affects ALL the cooling to some extent.
The fan belt in the non-doghouse engines runs at around 4-5hp and the doghouse fan plus alternator fan belts run at about 5-6hp - that's why the doghouse fan belt is wider - to make it stronger, and because it then ridess a little higher in the engin epulley groove, it also needs to be longer - so the fan belt goes from 905x9.5mm to 912x10.3mm.
MOST of that 5-6hp is driving the fan, and most of it is needed for the increase in pressure the fan produces to force the air through the cooling fins and cooler. As air gets hot it expands so it becomes a sort of mobile plug - resisting the inflow of more air, so you need a positive pressure, not just a volume of air, and for that, you need horsepower.
_________________
Rob
Rob and Dave's aircooled VW pages
Repairs and maintenance for the home mechanic
http://www.vw-resource.com |
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johnnypan
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2007
Posts: 7431
Location: sackamenna
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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You have to be above atmospheric pressure to move air  .... the engine fan uses a minimal amount of pressure to move a maximum amount of air, a volumetric fan..my point is that since the fan an 'air volume mover'everything gets bathed in the same volume of air flow..that by directing this air the bits actual effect is minimal.It does serve a purpose,IMO a minimal purpose. |
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Aussiebug
Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2002
Posts: 2162
Location: Adelaide Australia
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| Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 2:26 am Post subject: |
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You go on believing that Johnny.
_________________
Rob
Rob and Dave's aircooled VW pages
Repairs and maintenance for the home mechanic
http://www.vw-resource.com |
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johnnypan
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2007
Posts: 7431
Location: sackamenna
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| Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 7:26 am Post subject: |
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| No problem pal,I know Im right when you disagree with me.. |
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