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Smurf
Samba Member
Joined: January 20, 2004
Posts: 914
Location: Colmar, PA
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 Posted: Tue May 28, 2019 3:35 pm Post subject: Re: Upgrade to dual master cylinder |
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Which grommets are you using for the direct reservoir mount?
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Smurf
Samba Member
Joined: January 20, 2004
Posts: 914
Location: Colmar, PA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 7:30 pm Post subject: Re: Upgrade to dual master cylinder |
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I'll be using the WW German Master Cylinder w/ the 15mm inlets on the MC. Which grommets are you using for the direct reservoir mount?
The CIP1 reservoir dimensions are 85mm apart and the nipple part is only 13mm. I cannot find a 13mm grommet/plug for the master cylinder. I only see 7mm and 11mm inlet grommet/plugs.
I'm lost...can anyone point me in the right direction?
https://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=VWC%2D113%2D611%2D301%2DDCC
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1962 Beetle
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VOLKSWAGNUT
Fastest VW Belt Changer
Joined: October 14, 2007
Posts: 11055
Location: Flippin' a Belt........ .... Off-n-On ... NC USA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:02 am Post subject: Re: Upgrade to dual master cylinder |
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This same answer is on page four of this topic.. but... the general rule of thumb for master mounted reservoirs are
German Master Cylinders use the Rabbit reservoir
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=705868
Non German use the Empi or common reservoirs now available or a Volvo 240 reservoir.
It really all depends on the grommet size and spacing your current master cylinder needs. ..
You cant use the Rabbit grommets on the Beetle German Master. The OD of the grommets are different
Other option.. use a remote reservoir and brake pipes and tubing to make the transition .. like Vw did ...
.
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jsclarkfl
Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2007
Posts: 13
Location: Tallahassee
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| Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:26 am Post subject: Re: Upgrade to dual master cylinder |
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My friend JB's solution when adding a dual-circuit MC to a '64 Sedan but keeping the stock reservoir: a brass t-fitting.
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'65 Cabrio
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24733
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:13 pm Post subject: Re: Upgrade to dual master cylinder |
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| jsclarkfl wrote: |
| My friend JB's solution when adding a dual-circuit MC to a '64 Sedan but keeping the stock reservoir: a brass t-fitting. |
Problem with the "T" so close to the MC is that when one circuit goes bad, it can rob the still working circuit of fluid. Move the "T" as far uphill to prevent that.
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jsclarkfl
Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2007
Posts: 13
Location: Tallahassee
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| Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 1:00 pm Post subject: Re: Upgrade to dual master cylinder |
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Good point! I'll pass that along.
| Eric&Barb wrote: |
| Problem with the "T" so close to the MC is that when one circuit goes bad, it can rob the still working circuit of fluid. Move the "T" as far uphill to prevent that. |
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Denny B
Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2018
Posts: 167
Location: Ocala, FL
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| Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:26 pm Post subject: Re: Upgrade to dual master cylinder |
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I would use a "Y" fitting close to the reservoir.
Just my 2 cents. 
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VeeDee
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Joined: February 02, 2020
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Location: Wolfsburg, Germany
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FL-Frank
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2015
Posts: 823
Location: Jupiter, Florida
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| Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2021 2:46 pm Post subject: Re: Upgrade to dual master cylinder |
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| grandpa pete wrote: |
I was asked to show how I changed my single circuit master cylinder to a dual circuit master cylinder
Pink arrow points to where I attached the blue brake fluid supply lines to an existing clip on the tunnel with tye wraps
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Thinking of plumbing my reservoir to MC like this and eliminating the steel tubes. I would use a brass reducing coupler to connect the small diameter hose from the reservoir to the larger diameter blue hose. I like your idea of securing the blue brake hose to the original factory clip with zip ties to keep the hoses away from the steering components.
Curious as to why the new blue brake hose is looped at the bulkhead and then turned back to the MC inlet rather than a straight run to the MC.
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vwsplitvan
Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2008
Posts: 479
Location: UK
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| Posted: Sat Dec 18, 2021 2:16 pm Post subject: Re: Upgrade to dual master cylinder |
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Just planning installing all new hard lines and dual mc in our 62 bug.
Very helpful thread thanks
Ordering parts and noticed there is a dual circuit spacer kit. Why is this needed?
Is it needed?
Bought 67 hard lines and 67 reservoir to place in og location. Better to have a visual on fluid levels.
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24733
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Sat Dec 18, 2021 2:22 pm Post subject: Re: Upgrade to dual master cylinder |
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| vwsplitvan wrote: |
Ordering parts and noticed there is a dual circuit spacer kit. Why is this needed?
Is it needed? |
Check the description. Guessing it is for the bus...
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vwsplitvan
Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2008
Posts: 479
Location: UK
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| Posted: Sat Dec 18, 2021 3:36 pm Post subject: Re: Upgrade to dual master cylinder |
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Weird as listed for 1960-79 Beetle
Says for use when fitting a high performance mc.
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BSheldon
Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2021
Posts: 85
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2022 1:32 pm Post subject: Re: Upgrade to dual master cylinder |
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Very grateful for this thread, using it as my guide for converting my '66 to dual circuit drums. Thanks to everyone who's contributed over the years!
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bnam
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Joined: July 02, 2006
Posts: 2936
Location: El Dorado Hills CA/ Bangalore, India
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| Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2022 5:07 am Post subject: Re: Upgrade to dual master cylinder |
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| grandpa pete wrote: |
Found this on a You Tube video ;
Use duct tape to hold master in place while fitting screws from inside;
put in brake light switches AND hook up wireing BEFORE bolting in unit
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Easier solution - put the bolts on from inside, then go under the car tie wire ties once around each bolt as close to the body as possible. These will prevent the bolt pushing back in. Probably a plastic closure for your loaf of bread would work too. Get the mc on and start threading the nuts on. Then take off the wire tie or the plastic closure.
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Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 31361
Location: Hot Arizona
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| Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2022 7:46 am Post subject: Re: Upgrade to dual master cylinder |
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| bnam wrote: |
| grandpa pete wrote: |
Found this on a You Tube video ;
Use duct tape to hold master in place while fitting screws from inside;
put in brake light switches AND hook up wireing BEFORE bolting in unit
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Easier solution - put the bolts on from inside, then go under the car tie wire ties once around each bolt as close to the body as possible. These will prevent the bolt pushing back in. Probably a plastic closure for your loaf of bread would work too. Get the mc on and start threading the nuts on. Then take off the wire tie or the plastic closure. |
I almost always do such job by myself. I start the line fittings by hand a few turns to eliminate chance of crossthreading. Then I stuff rags under the master cylinder to prop it in place while I get the bolts started from the driver compartment.
However, I think that the duct tape technique is clever, and may try that in the future.
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Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 31361
Location: Hot Arizona
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| Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2022 7:48 am Post subject: Re: Upgrade to dual master cylinder |
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| bnam wrote: |
| grandpa pete wrote: |
Found this on a You Tube video ;
Use duct tape to hold master in place while fitting screws from inside;
put in brake light switches AND hook up wireing BEFORE bolting in unit
|
Easier solution - put the bolts on from inside, then go under the car tie wire ties once around each bolt as close to the body as possible. These will prevent the bolt pushing back in. Probably a plastic closure for your loaf of bread would work too. Get the mc on and start threading the nuts on. Then take off the wire tie or the plastic closure. |
I almost always do such job by myself. I start the line fittings by hand a few turns to eliminate chance of crossthreading. Then I stuff rags under the master cylinder to prop it in place while I get the bolts started from the driver compartment.
However, I think that the duct tape technique is clever, and may try that in the future.
_________________
1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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kacook3
Samba Member
Joined: December 10, 2021
Posts: 1
Location: GA
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| Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2022 4:59 pm Post subject: Re: Upgrade to dual master cylinder |
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I was going to do the same thing you mentioned below to add a dual master cylinder conversion to my 61 bug. I am having a hard time finding the proper sized brass or stainless steel barbed reducer. The small diameter brake fluid hose attaching to the metal reservoir tubes is 4.5mm ID and the larger blue hose that connects to the master cylinder is 7mm ID. Where can I find a proper sized reducer to connect these and what did you use or does it work just as well to use hose clamps to hold the blue hose onto the smaller steel tubes of the reservoir.
| FL-Frank wrote: |
| grandpa pete wrote: |
I was asked to show how I changed my single circuit master cylinder to a dual circuit master cylinder
Pink arrow points to where I attached the blue brake fluid supply lines to an existing clip on the tunnel with tye wraps
|
Thinking of plumbing my reservoir to MC like this and eliminating the steel tubes. I would use a brass reducing coupler to connect the small diameter hose from the reservoir to the larger diameter blue hose. I like your idea of securing the blue brake hose to the original factory clip with zip ties to keep the hoses away from the steering components.
Curious as to why the new blue brake hose is looped at the bulkhead and then turned back to the MC inlet rather than a straight run to the MC. |
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SparksLP
Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2009
Posts: 213
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2023 5:37 pm Post subject: Re: Upgrade to dual master cylinder |
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I don't think it got referenced directly, but some have posted similar ideas to this JBugs video from a few years ago:
https://youtu.be/CorjjxZ7gRM
My question about it relates to the way he routed the OG reservoir to the dual cylinder reservoir. He basically poked a hole in the tip and used a grommet to plug the old reservoir into (1:30 into the video). Any concerns with doing it that way? Seems like it would seal up and not spill out to me... 
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1966 VW Beetle Sunroof Sedan |
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Busstom
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2014
Posts: 3841
Location: San Jose, CA
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| Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2023 6:53 pm Post subject: Re: Upgrade to dual master cylinder |
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If I were to do it that way, I would only be using the original reservoir above as a fill-funnel to run the fluid down to the new dual-chamber reservoir, and visually ensuring that the new reservoir below is NOT overfilled. The new grommet that the hack hacked in there MAY hold fluid under gravity pressure (aka "head" or "static" pressure), but what the hack didn't tell you in the video is that if you fill up your O.E. reservoir up above, fluid WILL leak out of the vented cap below until the level above is exhausted, and be lying spilled all over your pan.
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Last edited by Busstom on Sat Feb 25, 2023 6:55 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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61SNRF
Samba Member
Joined: March 29, 2009
Posts: 4657
Location: Whittier 90602
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| Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2023 6:54 pm Post subject: Re: Upgrade to dual master cylinder |
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| SparksLP wrote: |
I don't think it got referenced directly, but some have posted similar ideas to this JBugs video from a few years ago:
https://youtu.be/CorjjxZ7gRM
My question about it relates to the way he routed the OG reservoir to the dual cylinder reservoir. He basically poked a hole in the tip and used a grommet to plug the old reservoir into (1:30 into the video). Any concerns with doing it that way? Seems like it would seal up and not spill out to me... |
To answer your question a leak at the grommet won't matter because the thing is the reservoir they put on the M/C has a vented cap so it is going to leak there if the stock reservoir is filled up. As he mentions the stock reservoir is just a funnel now.
For certain not the way I would do it.
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