lug torque reminder

[campism]

While preparing to work on my steering rack this weekend I figured I'd loosen the lugs in case I needed to remove the front wheels once the van was on jackstands. I discovered the left front could not be budged. We all know about the problems caused by tire jockeys and their impact wrenches when installing your wheels, but I'd forgotten about my last state inspection and how they remove a wheel to check brakes. It's a good thing I did not have to change a flat out on the road somewhere because I likely would not have had a 6 foot cheater bar handy to help me loosen the obscenely tight lug bolts. They were on so tight that when each finally did give it felt like the arms of the four-way lug wrench were bending. Check yours before your next drive, just in case.

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'87 Westy in Wolfram Grey Metallic

[Phishman068]

This is why I make it a habit of only tightening the lugs with the wrench I keep in the vehicle, that way they won't be prohibitively tight the day the times comes to remove one (and i'll be practiced). This has worked well for me over the years.

Also, when my busses go into the shop (Just for inspection once a year, I do everything else), the mechanic will be handed a calibrated torque wrench for use on the lugs. If you make it convenient for them, they're usually willing to do it, but if their air tool is the most convenient thing at their disposal....
You know the results.
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=559766&highlight=winter+rust
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482402&highlight=sunroof+syncro
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=569774
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6864936#6864936

"Along with the ability to go fast, one looses the desire to hurry."

[danfromsyr]

that's a good point and reminder that everyone should know how to and at the least loosen and retighten their lugnuts at a convenient time..

I'd like to point out that a 4way is a POS of a wrench. and while some have prejudice against harbor freight I've used this $13 25in breaker bar for years of garage & junkyard abuse..
http://www.harborfreight.com/12-in-drive-25-in-breaker-bar-67933.html
I do carry the breaker bar under the back seat while traveling,
but just don't use all that leverage to tighten
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[dhaavers]

Good reminder.

Always in our van: quality 18" breaker bar, 19mm impact socket, 2-foot cheater pipe and a cheap 1/2" torque wrench.

Just like a raincoat; bring it and hope you don't need it...
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86 White Wolfsburg Westy Weekender
"The WonderVan"
<EDITED TO PROTECT INNOCENT PIXELS>

[alaskadan]

Had that exact thing happen to me. Had winter tires put on. Couple weeks later got a flat and couldn't get #&@%€$¥! tire off! I was bent my lug wrench was bent. Gave the tire shop manager an ear full hoping the bentness ran downhill to the monkey with an impact.

[spacecadet]

Yup! Always keep a 2ft breaker and 19mm under the seat.. great self-defense weapon while traveling too ;P
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Daily Drivers Only
--
1990 Volvo 740 Turbo(Sold)
1986 Mercedes 300 Coupe (Sold)
1954 Volvo PV544 (Sold)
1990 Dodge D250 Cummins (Totaled)
1990 Vanagon GL 2.1 Automatic (Sold)
1968 Ford F250(Current)

[1vw4x4]

Here is a hint. Grease the seat of the lug nuts. In most shop manuals
it states not to do this. I haven't yet found a reason not to, but I sure have
had a much easier time removing wheels.

[ThankYouJerry]

This:
http://www.amazon.com/Makita-BTW251Z-18-Volt-Lithi...act+wrench

Coupled with this…
http://www.amazon.com/Mountain-16250-2-inch-Torque...que+wrench

Make life much nicer
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1990 Multivan - "Ohana"
1.8T, Auto w/3.27 R&P + Peloquin TBD

[IdahoDoug]

The reason you don't want to grease the conical or tapered seats is that the mfr wants the lugnuts and the wheel to "become one" for purposes of handling the flex that occurs each revolution. Your wheels actually bend every revolution and the lug face is where that movement must stop. It stops when the hub the lug face is bolted to, and the lug face itself essentially become one solid structure.

If the wheel and lug are lubricated where they meet, the two structures (lug face and wheel hub) move relative to each other every tire revolution. The motion of that flex can cause a rotating force on the lug nuts and loosen them. That's why if you've ever had loose lug nuts you will be astonished how quickly driving on them finishes the job and unscrews them.

So, lube the threads, but don't lube the contact faces between the lugnut and the wheel - the conical holes.

Doug
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1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader

[thatvwbusguy]

Most torque specs are published for "clean, dry threads" unless otherwise noted. Any time you use a lubricant or anti-seize where a dry torque spec is given, it is important to consider the impact that the lubricant will have. I routinely see suggestions to decrease torque specs from 15%-25% when using various types of lubricants or anti-seize compounds on the threads of a fastener.

We are lucky enough to have a member of our community that has a lot more knowledge about Vanagon wheels and mounting hardware than most people would ever care to know. This being the case, here is a link to what Christopher @ T3 Technique has to say about the subject http://t3technique.com/media/pdf/Lug_torque.pdf. It is worth noting that he recommends against using lubricant on the lug seat area of the fastener, since that junction point is responsible for a significant amount of the friction that is responsible for proper torque.

Since the torque spec for Vanagon lug nuts is given for dry threads, that is what I use. I rotate my tires every 5,000 miles (or once a year) on all of my vehicles. There is very little chance that anything will have a chance to rust or corrode to the point of becoming an issue at this maintenance interval, even here in the northeast with all the salt on the roads in the winter.
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Jay Brown
'85 Zetec Westfalia
Newmarket, NH


If you want others to be happy, practice compassion.
If you want to be happy, practice compassion.

[campism]

Remember this?

This is why you make sure you can get the lug nuts off. This is the same corner of the van pictured above, but this photo was taken on the shoulder of southbound I-95 in Miami's Friday afternoon traffic in humid 85 degree weather. Because I'd previously checked to be sure I could loosen the lugs with the stock tools I was able to change my spare and be on my way in less than 30 minutes. New tire in the hard-to-find stock 185R14C was ordered from a local tire store in prep for the drive home.

Before you drive your van one more foot, be sure you'll actually be able to change a flat if you need to. A slight delay in awful weather beats the hell out of being stranded or towed or left to the mercy of mechanics away from home. You decide.
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'87 Westy in Wolfram Grey Metallic

[dobryan]

No fun! Glad you were prepared.
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Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD

"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson

MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371

The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794

[?Waldo?]

15 or so years ago, about two weeks after the last time a shop worked on a vehicle of mine, when I was redoing the job they did, I promptly snapped a brand new 3/4"-1/2" reducer that was rated to 395 ft-lbs attempting to remove the over-torqued lug bolts. Two of the other lug bolts rounded despite using the correct 6-pt socket. Thankfully the reducer carried a lifetime warranty and the replacement has worked fine for the last 15 years. I've even torqued a couple items to double the 395 ft-lb rating without issue. 800+ ft-lbs of torque on the lugs???

I now always just bring the loose rims to the tire shop for work.

[Steve M.]

It's not a bad idea to improve upon your cheater pipe by having two. One a larger diameter pipe and another equal length, but a smaller diameter to slide inside the 1st for storage.
That way you have double the length if you need it.

btw. Discount Tire has a policy of Torquing the lug nuts with a torque wrench and the guys I used once actually did know about not having grease on the lug nuts. So I was impressed!

[wecm31]

one point, one question....

Yes, do not grease the lugs/nuts. Had a tire come off my Chevy half ton because of overzealous anti seize...

question...

Just bought a set of torque sticks for my impact...so far love 'em.
Initially used the one just under spec (90 ft lb), then checked with the wrench and found it just needed a slight snug to 100 ft lb.

Now I just use the spec'd torque stick..

Voodoo? or the Real Deal?
_________________
Gerald P
1985 Vanagon (Betty) & 1985 BMW R80RT (Wilhelm)
vintage boxers!!

Gone are the days we stopped to decide
Where we should go, we just ride:)

[rubbachicken]

my local discount tire, may have had a problem, as they always have someone verify to torque wrench on all the lug nuts, i was in there to get a price for tires, and asked what why they had to get a second set of eyes.

[Merian]

I always watch the guy and ask if he is using a torque stick.

Back home, I loosen and re-torque the lug nuts.

BTW - always check the torque after 100-200 miles of driving - same for CV joint bolts

[denwood]

All of my vehicles get anti seize on the lug nut/bolt threads. I adjust torque to the lubricated values and torque them myself. In over 25 yrs of doing this (17 yrs on the Westfalia), I've had precisely zero issues. My scirocco (now sold) was in the stable for 24 yrs, 8 of them heavily auto crossed. Zero issues. With that car I was swapping to the race rims every weekend.

Our winters are harsh, and a lot of salt is used.
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Cheers,
Dennis Wood
The Grape