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gears
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Joined: October 28, 2002
Posts: 4391
Location: Tamarack, Bend, Kailua
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 Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 11:20 am Post subject: |
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Only shotpeening alters the surface hardness, and it doesn't take down the high spots. REM'ing and tumbling are polishing techniques. The actual problem is related to high spots, which are best addressed with a barrel-shaped polishing attachment. While REM claims to address primarily high spots, it isn't as effective as what Syncro Jael has done.
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aka Pablo, Geary
9.36 @ 146 in '86 Hot & Sticky
'90 Syncro Westy SVX
'87 Syncro GL 2.5
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flyindutchman
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Joined: December 09, 2012
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Location: Vancouver,WA.
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Jon_slider
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Joined: April 11, 2007
Posts: 5091
Location: Santa Cruz, Crowdifornia
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| Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 11:46 am Post subject: |
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I recently removed a 944 axle, from a porsche, that Ive been running with 944 Lobro joints, due to a torn boot. It is the one on the left, with the blue gloves on it. Axle shaft of 944 measures 21 1/4". On the right is a stock Vanagon axle with Lobro joints, with a black glove on it, that I keep around as a spare. Stock axle shaft measures 21 3/8". I did not measure a bare axle shaft, instead I measured from the ground to the bottom of the 1/4" rod I use for Clocking the CV joints.
As a test, I bought an Autozone axle. I do not know what type of joint it has, and I did not measure the axle shaft length. It came with the star on with the shoulder towards the end of the axle. We installed it on my syncro, temporarily while repairing the torn boot axle with the blue glove above. We did not flip the star, and did not measure the axle length, but its working without issue. When we take it off, I will try to remember to measure it. Meanwhile, maybe someone else has a measurement from theirs?
thanks to syncrojael, here are his measurements of stock and autozone axles
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6...p;start=40
| Syncro Jael wrote: |
german set of stock half shafts... measure 21.3125" or just above 21 1/4"
Right now I have these half shafts and joints on both sides. (autozone)... They measure at 21 5/16. So it is the same as my stock half shafts. |
As a tangent to CV joint temperatures, which I have not measured directly, I do have some info about the effect of my skid plate on Transaxle gear oil temperature.
Going from San Jose to Santa Cruz over Hwy 17, 6-10% grade, 55mph in 4th gear (140hp Tdi motor @2400rpm), I did several tests of transaxle temperature (I have a tranny cooler and temp sender, the cooler was Off for the tests).
1. No skid plate, 93F over ambient.
2. 14" skid plate, 101F over ambient
3. 24" skid plate, 113F over ambient
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My Soapboxes: Inflation; Handling; Gearing; Decoupling; Swepco |
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dobryan
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Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 16503
Location: Brookeville, MD
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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I just repacked my CV joints. They are Lobro's from about 5 years and 50,000 miles ago.
I noticed that the surfaces started out rough and have been 'polished' smooth by the balls in contact patches. The inner and outer portions of the joints are all in excellent condition. There was no noise from them, this was just a regular maintenance period since I had the axles off anyway.
Interesting to see that Lobro joints were not smooth to begin with. The white bits are just portions of paper towel.
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Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD
"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson
MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646
Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371
The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794 |
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Merian
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Joined: January 04, 2014
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Location: Orygun
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dobryan
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Joined: March 24, 2006
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Location: Brookeville, MD
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Syncro Jael
Samba Member
Joined: December 19, 2013
Posts: 2204
Location: Utah
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| Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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Just another update on the CV joints.
I was under the van removing the skid plates for a soon to be new engine next week and looked over all the axles. All the boots still look great no cracks or anything bad. They were dirty so I cleaned them with a rag and silicone spray.
I grabbed the axles and checked the plunge on both rears. They seem to still be centered and both move very smooth with no hints of wear notches. These should be ready to take apart for servicing sometime this summer and I can take a look at the wear then give a full report.
Between polishing them and using the NEO Synthetic CV grease my problems have not come back. (knock on wood). 
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1987 Syncro Westfalia Hightop - NAHT
Subaru EJ25 Forged Frankenmotor, Triple Knob.
Jael = (Mountain Goat) |
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Abscate
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Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 3:25 am Post subject: |
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| dobryan wrote: |
I just repacked my CV joints. They are Lobro's from about 5 years and 50,000 miles ago.
I noticed that the surfaces started out rough and have been 'polished' smooth by the balls in contact patches. The inner and outer portions of the joints are all in excellent condition. There was no noise from them, this was just a regular maintenance period since I had the axles off anyway.
Interesting to see that Lobro joints were not smooth to begin with. The white bits are just portions of paper towel.
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Those are fine. When I did my 1971s they were clacking like mad...I got all four ends disconnected and found quite a bit of scarring on the star and outer cage. I packed them up with a heavy CV grease and ran that Bus to CA and back 5 years later.
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tarandusVDub
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Joined: August 27, 2010
Posts: 1649
Location: Between Here and There
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| Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 9:21 am Post subject: |
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This seemed like a good and current thread to post this.
I'm replacing one of my CV boots with a Rockford. Had to take it to a shop to get the joint off the axle and had them put on the boot too. They put the retainer ring on incorrectly and blocked one of the bolt holes (this is usually a good shop so have no idea why they did this rookie move).
I'm wondering if someone has installed these before and can tell me if the rubber should be outside the metal collar, or inside between the joint and the collar? The retainer ring holds the rubber, but my other boots don't even have that ring, the rubber just sits tight between the joint and ring.
Thanks for any help.
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1990 Syncro 16" DoppleKabine 2.1 DJ 112i
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Wildthings
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riceye
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Joined: March 09, 2006
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Location: Caledonia, WI
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| Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 11:29 am Post subject: |
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I just installed a set of four of the Rockford boots. The clamp was pre-installed when I received them. Three of them had the Oetiker crimp "knob" interfering with a bolt hole. I simply tapped with a dull chisel in the direction that pulls together the clips on the clamps until the "knob" was clear of the hole. Then, I gave a little squeeze with my Oetiker pliers to be certain of the tension. No big deal.
I used Redline cv-2 grease in my joints and noticed some weepage out of the small ends of the inner boots during my 100 mile re-torque. I've never seen this happen before, but a wise sage shared with me that the Redline grease has been known to weep a little. Between that and the stiffness of the Rockwell boots, the small ends do slide on the axle as the suspension articulates allowing the grease to sneak downhill out of the boots. I did not have the band clamps on the small end of the inner boots initially, but they are on there, now!
The outer joints didn't display the same amount of weepage, probably due to the fact that the axle points uphill from there. Just in case, I put a cable tie around the small end of the outer boots. The Oetiker tool can't get inside of "the cave" where the outer boot resides.
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'87 Westy Weekender - daily driver on salt-free roads
There's gonna be some changes made.
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Wildthings
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| Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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| riceye wrote: |
I just installed a set of four of the Rockford boots. The clamp was pre-installed when I received them. Three of them had the Oetiker crimp "knob" interfering with a bolt hole. I simply tapped with a dull chisel in the direction that pulls together the clips on the clamps until the "knob" was clear of the hole. Then, I gave a little squeeze with my Oetiker pliers to be certain of the tension. No big deal.
I used Redline cv-2 grease in my joints and noticed some weepage out of the small ends of the inner boots during my 100 mile re-torque. I've never seen this happen before, but a wise sage shared with me that the Redline grease has been known to weep a little. Between that and the stiffness of the Rockwell boots, the small ends do slide on the axle as the suspension articulates allowing the grease to sneak downhill out of the boots. I did not have the band clamps on the small end of the inner boots initially, but they are on there, now!
The outer joints didn't display the same amount of weepage, probably due to the fact that the axle points uphill from there. Just in case, I put a cable tie around the small end of the outer boots. The Oetiker tool can't get inside of "the cave" where the outer boot resides. |
You shouldn't be getting seepage out the small end of the boot because there shouldn't be any grease there.  |
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riceye
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Joined: March 09, 2006
Posts: 1661
Location: Caledonia, WI
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| Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| riceye wrote: |
I just installed a set of four of the Rockford boots. The clamp was pre-installed when I received them. Three of them had the Oetiker crimp "knob" interfering with a bolt hole. I simply tapped with a dull chisel in the direction that pulls together the clips on the clamps until the "knob" was clear of the hole. Then, I gave a little squeeze with my Oetiker pliers to be certain of the tension. No big deal.
I used Redline cv-2 grease in my joints and noticed some weepage out of the small ends of the inner boots during my 100 mile re-torque. I've never seen this happen before, but a wise sage shared with me that the Redline grease has been known to weep a little. Between that and the stiffness of the Rockwell boots, the small ends do slide on the axle as the suspension articulates allowing the grease to sneak downhill out of the boots. I did not have the band clamps on the small end of the inner boots initially, but they are on there, now!
The outer joints didn't display the same amount of weepage, probably due to the fact that the axle points uphill from there. Just in case, I put a cable tie around the small end of the outer boots. The Oetiker tool can't get inside of "the cave" where the outer boot resides. |
You shouldn't be getting seepage out the small end of the boot because there shouldn't be any grease there. |
I does find its way there, particularly when you pack with an ample supply from both sides of the cv. Heat, gravity, and centrifugal force.
But, as always, you're probably right.
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'87 Westy Weekender - daily driver on salt-free roads
There's gonna be some changes made.
“I find that things usually go well right up until the moment they don't.” - Ahwahnee
"Quality isn't method. It's the goal toward which the method is aimed." - Socrates, later quoted by R.M. Pirsig |
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tarandusVDub
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Joined: August 27, 2010
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| Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the replies. It looks like it was the factory's fault, not my local shops. I just received my next boot from T3, and it is oriented correctly. I'll try and adjust the other one as described. Seems like a pretty slacker QAQC for Rockford if 50% of their boots ship this way...
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1990 Syncro 16" DoppleKabine 2.1 DJ 112i
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Syncro Jael
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Joined: December 19, 2013
Posts: 2204
Location: Utah
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| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:36 am Post subject: ***UPDATE*** |
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*** UPDATE***
With my recent transaxle replacement it just made sense to re-pack the CV joints. I had promised someone I would show the results of using NEO Synthetic CV grease. I had also race prepped these joints. These were installed back in Sep 2014, and have over 30,000 miles on them. I have not checked the temps of them, but they plunge smoothly still. It was nice to see the wear points centered in the joints. These joints are now repacked with NEO HPCC1 and Belray mix. I will update in another year or so, at a service interval, or if they fail.
I did have a crack in the left outer boot  , so it was replaced. Here are some photos with the different Grease's I was using. All the joints looked comparable and the passenger side showed a little more wear. But all looked great. Finally!!!  They almost looked as good as when I installed them.
I have a buddy at work that has high end sand rails. I listen to how he keeps his joints serviced and what he uses. He is now running CAT GOLD and BELRAY mixed. Time will tell...
http://www.kartek.com/parts/bel-ray-anit-seize-cv-grease-compound-123-lbs-grease-gun-tube.html
https://parts.cat.com/en/catcorp/machine-fluids/gr...96-product
FYI Here is an off road site that will help with servicing your CV joints.
http://www.sandsports.net/content.php?contentID=39
Drivers side had NEO HPCC1 grease.
http://www.neosyntheticoil.com/hpcc1-grease/
Passenger Side had CV500.
http://www.neosyntheticoil.com/cv-500-joint-grease/
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1987 Syncro Westfalia Hightop - NAHT
Subaru EJ25 Forged Frankenmotor, Triple Knob.
Jael = (Mountain Goat) |
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insyncro
Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15086
Location: New York
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| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 8:31 am Post subject: |
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The CAT Gold is an amazing grease 
I have it in use on my sets of 930s currently.
I can buy Southworth Milton direct now.
Pricey stuff and you have to buy cases.
I will place an ad in the classifieds after my next order for those who want to purchase 4 sticks at a time. |
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AKWesty
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Joined: April 12, 2014
Posts: 680
Location: Haines, Alaska
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2015 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Syncro Jael wrote: |
On another note. One thing I have noticed is before the joints begin clicking I can feel a surging motion to the vehicle when accelerating in the lower gears. I believe this to be the formation of pits in the CV joint. This becomes a vibration at high speeds and stops when taking your foot off the accelerator. Coasting or going down grades there is no rhythmic surges in the drivetrain. I have felt the pits in the joints before so bad that when you were stopped it would "pop" out of the pits when taking off from a dead stop.
I just thought I would add these comments in case you have any of these symptoms. |
Jael, I read through this thread yesterday and wonder if you still feel that this surging is an early sign of your CV star wear. I have started to notice a slight surging in power while accelerating through 2nd gear. I have always equated this surging with either a miss in the ignition system or a less than perfect injector not giving you a clean spray. If you don't mind a tangent here, I would like to hear your thoughts and others that may have or are currently experiencing this "pulsing or surging" in the lower gear accelerations. I intend on putting a meter on my wires, switching out plugs, and testing my injectors. I would have never guessed this could have something to do with my CV's. Thanks for you great documentation. Lots of knowledge gleaned. -Chad
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Syncro Jael
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Joined: December 19, 2013
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Location: Utah
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2015 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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AKWesty,
I mainly felt it in low gear when accelerating from a stop. Once I swapped the rear CVs it stopped. Mine had severely pitted spots that I believe the balls were rolling through. It's just my theory and it did stop with all new joints.
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1987 Syncro Westfalia Hightop - NAHT
Subaru EJ25 Forged Frankenmotor, Triple Knob.
Jael = (Mountain Goat) |
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Jeffrey Lee
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Joined: February 04, 2014
Posts: 1488
Location: Wisconsin
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| Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 4:03 pm Post subject: Re: CV Joint "Blues" |
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Recently pulled the halfshafts and preemptively replaced all four CV joints on a bone-stock 83 Vanagon with 120,000 original miles. None were making any noise or exhibiting any other symptoms. The grease in all four joints was in good condition, and not getting stiff.
I'm now inspecting the old joints for condition and to determine whether any of them can be re-used. Surprisingly, the two best joints appear to be the original OE, with the usual VW and Audi logos, a Lobro logo, and a date stamp of 8/83. As far as I know, these joints were never serviced and perhaps still had the factory grease in them!
CV1
CV1
CV2
CV2
These photos show the worst of the pitting on each of these OE joints; their other grooves are in much better condition. Especially curious to me are the distinctive marks seen in the grooves of CV1. These aren't the typical galled surfaces of a normal pit, like that on CV2, but rather a pair of short somewhat smooth ruts or tracks.
And what about the wear marks on the outer perimeter of the ball cages? Are those normal, or do they indicate a problem?
Do you think the overall condition of these joints would allow them to be re-used as spares, etc.?
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Honuak
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Location: AK
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| Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 10:35 am Post subject: Re: CV Joint "Blues" |
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Great thread. Lots of info.
I am chasing down a slow speed clunking sound coming from the front end (syncro). Sounds like a ball joint but everything under the van is new (4000 miles) and looks good.
Except it seems like there is a tiny bit of liquefied grease (?) coming out of the boots on the CV and I can move the shaft very slightly on its axis, maybe 1/16", making a slight clunking sound. Is the movement and clunking normal?
Both front shafts move similarly and the sounds seems to be coming from both sides. |
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