Westfalia speculation

[kaalualu]

Is it me, or is there a glut of overpriced Westys? I have been watching this market for about 3 years now, there is obviously a pulse to it, springtime more available higher price, fall, winter, prices drop. This year seems to be way more with higher asking prices and quite a few still floating on line, hoping for a buyer. I love the classic line, don't really want to let go, we will miss her but, gotta let her go for 29 thousand dollars....

[supdude]

Future release of the 4x4 sprinter van will drive syncro westy prices down. Other than that, they're popular vans! Baby boomers with money to spend will keep the prices inflated.
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['83 EJ22]
LED LIGHT KITS! To illuminate your Vanagon or Westfalia!
The Rise of SURFMACHINE!
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[MarkWard]

I was watching for a donor camper for the last 6 months. I watched here and on ebay. My requirements were minimal. It just needed a good camper interior and top. I was blown away by what people are asking. I did not find the donor I needed via the internet. I did eventually find one local with the engine out of it. It was more than I wanted to pay, but after seeing what people were asking for parts and turd vanagons, I bought it. Plus, I did not have to fly to see it or pay to ship it.

As an owner, I don't have a problem with the prices going through the roof. I feel sorry for those wanting to buy one though.
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[danfromsyr]

can't let them splittie and Bay bus hippies have all the priced out of enjoyment economics.

like real estate I'm glad I bought mine when I did who can afford to buy in at this day/age.

here's one bad case in point.. opening bid is $5k for an air cooled with a front seat area I couldn't get the SHMBO into. lipstick on a pig.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/191301513732
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[Jake de Villiers]

[danfromsyr]

Not to turn this into a whine about prices. but certainly unrealistic economics
another $5k beaut
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1574445
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[syncroluvr]

We bought ours 5 years ago for 14K, the first 3 years cost us over 6K in repairs and this year we have had no outings yet due to the fact that we asked Ben very late in the season to drop in a Subaru 2.5. We are very commited and or should be (to an institution). There is no way we will see this money back (or little of it) at resale but that is not our point. One great trip per season pays us back enormous dividends, we pay for our freedom
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1990 Syncro Westy with stump pulling 2576cc Subaru

Y2K V6 Passat

Calcandi Leviter

[iliketowalk]

I know this is probably considered un-American / capitalistic - but I feel like there's a lot of greed when it comes to selling and valuing these vans, similar to the real-estate bubble.

People seem to feel like it's a given that it should appreciate, and be worth much more than you paid for it 12-24+ months ago. The problem is this is completely at odds with the spirit of the van and the community in general. I feel like the great thing about them [or at least previously] was that they were truly accessible to a really wide range of people which made the community richer.

We're basically watching the automotive equivalent of the Bay Area housing market. Eventually only truly wealthy people are going to be able to afford them (in the summer, we're pretty close) and I think the diversity of the community of owners will probably suffer...

Hopefully this will be offset somewhat by more imports from Europe as we make it beyond the 25 year rule for more vans.

As far as price setting goes, there's a little bit of a feedback loop going on. When people decide to sell, they obviously look at the higher end to see what they can fetch. Unfortunately we've got a bunch of people with $25-50k stock Westy's and so they think that $25k is a totally reasonable asking price. What they don't know is that those $50k Westys have been on the market for 6-12 months... Pretty soon their Westy is the justification for the next persons pricing... And on, and on...

I called an owner on a reasonably clean 86' Westy that I saw for sale on the street the other day (no price listed). When I say reasonably clean I mean, no visible seam rust, original motor, tidy interior. Spoke with the owner, it's got over 200k on it, 60k on a rebuilt motor, not much documentation (rebuild was prior to this owner)... I was thinking $7.5k-12.5k... Nope. $25k. I didn't even know what to tell her other than it's too rich for my blood.

</rant>
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1986 Weekender "Birch"

[Gruppe B]

The obvious problem is that no one makes new ones anymore.

Back in the 1980's a 50s or 60s era bus was just an old bus. You could go out and buy a much nicer, better riding vanagon for relatively reasonable price and it was new.

[ThankYouJerry]

Another theory...

1. Westies that have been properly restored (especially those with properly upgraded new/rebuilt engines) are not cheap to put in that condition. When the owner goes to sell it he'll be lucky to receive a fraction of his expense regardless of how many miles he drove it. Kinda like buying a new car and driving it off the lot.

2. So... The Westy he spent $60k on now sits on the market at $45k and most buyers don't see/understand the value in it.

3. And now... Every stock running Westy owner thinks his is worth at least $15-25k. Take that $15-25k Westy to the properly restored (upgraded engine) level and you have now spent $60,000+++

So don't discount all those $45K Westies until you go do your homework and determine what "value" means to you.

As far as "investment" goes… …Most (not all) cars in the sub-six digit range NEVER yield a ROI. Why? Not enough margin for profit. Want to flip cars for a living? Look to the Blue Chip Cars. Want a great camper that can double as an every day grocery getter? Buy a Westy. Want it to be reliable, safe, and keep up with modern day traffic… spend some big bucks or buy someone else's dream at a discount…. aka "value".
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1990 Multivan - "Ohana"
1.8T, Auto w/3.27 R&P + Peloquin TBD

[iliketowalk]

If you spend $60k on a 25+ year old vanagon, it's a labor of love - not an investment. People need to be a bit more realistic...

Edit: So this raises an interesting question... As more enthusiasts are being priced out: 1. When will the mass exodus take place (profit taking), and 2. To what platform / vehicle will we/they go? That's where you want to speculate.

Someone mentioned the 4x4 Sprinter, but at $50-80k for a stock one without a kitchen, you're basically in the same market or worse.

What about the Astro?

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1986 Weekender "Birch"

[DLJ]

I too watch the sale of van/ westys. Prices vary from low to very hi and though I dont always agree, it is the perogative of the seller to ask whatever price they want. Who cares if they sit on there overpriced vehicles forever.
If this is not the proper market for some, then maybe you should look at mid 80's earlys 90's Chevy or Fords.

[danfromsyr]

the Astro camper only POSES as a westy. and while yes you can drive it and you can sleep in it. living in it (so to speak) is far less viable.
for a weekend warrior it may be quite sufficient.

they also rent converted chrysler caravan campers..
http://www.jucyrentals.com/vehicles/jucy-champ.aspx

still ain't no westy though. as of yet everything imitates but nothing really compares.. so we value our VW campers higher, by virtue.
you have to pay to play..
me I drive a old beatup bodied formerly aircooled van with a DIY 1.8T.
resale.. negligible.
enjoyment factor expansive.
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[Rodknock]

Just like Boulder CO in the past 20 years, a bunch of rich people moved here and ruined it. Too much money takes the fun out of it. Good old middle class fun out the window. I get way too many comments and stares when out and about in my Westy. Eurovan campers are even more expensive than the Vanagon based Westy.

[iliketowalk]

The biggest drawback (for me) with the Astro is the lack of forward-control, which is the same problem with the Eurovan, etc.

I've seen at least one Astro with a Westy kitchen swapped in - it's elegant in simplicity but not super hard to imitate and improve on, so I'm pretty sure you could engineer in similar convenience into an Astro and be on par for living, etc... The pop top is basically the same / very similar as far as I can tell.

Vanagon (non-westy) (LxWxH): 182"x72"x76"
Astro: 177"x77"74" (varies between models)

So they're definitely in the ballpark with each other... You do lose quite a bit to the hood in the Astro though, compared to the Westy.
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1986 Weekender "Birch"

[Ahwahnee]

[davevickery]

So many opinions on prices. It takes a lot of money to get a 25 year old van into modern shape and reliability. I don't think it is unreasonable to expect to get it back when you sell a vehicle that I'd not going down in value.

So is a van worth the high price that someone was able to sell it for, or is it only worth the price of the cheapest one someone found after scouring ads for two years.

Same mentality for parts, people think they should be able to buy them for what they cost at a junkyard.

[davevickery]

So many opinions on prices. It takes a lot of money to get a 25 year old van into modern shape and reliability. I don't think it is unreasonable to expect to get it back when you sell a vehicle that I'd not going down in value.

So is a van worth the high price that someone was able to sell it for, or is it only worth the price of the cheapest one someone found after scouring ads for two years.

Same mentality for parts, people think they should be able to buy them for what they cost at a junkyard.

[bluefirefly]

[ycontractor]

Last year I had an '86 full westy that I advertised and sold on the Samba for what I felt was a fair and reasonable price. Turns out I way under priced it. It sold literally within hours of posting it, and I had many people wanting to fly in to Tucson to purchase it. I sold it for the asking price (to someone within driving distance), but I'm sure I could have gotten at least few thousand more for it. Compared to the prices I see today I could nearly double the price and I would still be in line with other similar westies.

I'm really glad I bought mine when I did. As much as I love these vans, I can't see myself spending 50-60K on one. I've sunk a good deal of money into mine, but I figure I'm going to keep it for the rest of my life.