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Fueling problem on Eurovan 1992 camper.
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Jooknon
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 4:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Fueling problem on Eurovan 1992 camper. Reply with quote

Well drove it for about an hour and then shut it off for an hour. Came back to start it and it took three tries to her to start.
This is so weird. I don't mind shutting it down here in Bend Oregon cause I know there shops around that could prob fix it if I really needed. But we're headed off to crater lake this evening and I'm kinda nervous turning it off.

Wonder how much the temperature outside has to do with it. It's like 96* here today.

Currently thinking about driving the four days home without shutting it off again just to make sure we get there...
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Jooknon
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Fueling problem on Eurovan 1992 camper. Reply with quote

Well sad day, for a thread hijack. Gave the van a few test shut off's and restarts (in a hotel parking lot) before leaving town and sure enough, the problem returned. Won't idle, it'll kinda hang in there a bit if I pump the pedal, but it eventually gives up.

So booked a night, maybe two at the hotel and we jumped in the pool. Tomorrow morning I'll call around to a few shops and see if anyone will be able to look at it ASAP.


...fun times are being had in Bend, OR...
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 6:50 am    Post subject: Re: Fueling problem on Eurovan 1992 camper. Reply with quote

GO back to root troubleshooting and forget about your purge problem.

Ignition
Fuel
Compression (purists do this first, but if you no reason to believe its bad, it can come last)
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markcm2
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 7:45 am    Post subject: Re: Fueling problem on Eurovan 1992 camper. Reply with quote

Did you replace the N80? I picked one up at Napa Auto on our road trip. I've read other threads about hard start conditions due to improper fueling when the N80 is malfunctioning.
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Jooknon
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 8:02 am    Post subject: Re: Fueling problem on Eurovan 1992 camper. Reply with quote

I can't find an N80 anywhere here in town.

This morning the van started up no problem multiple times.

So I'm going back to troubleshooting. And while sleeping I came up with a few ideas and maybe its a combination of a few.

I still have a broken gas cap. Its been glued back together but wont seal completely anymore. Yesterday when it was really hot I could see the vapors "vaping" out of from the fuel door.

Second when we first broke down yesterday, I popped the hood and the hose on the engine side of the N80 was disconnected from the N80. I reconnected it, but it took forever to start.

Third, upon opening the hood yesterday I also found that the black vacuum chamber (the black multiple ball's stuck together looking thing) thats riveted to the firewall has falled off. The rivets have broken.


I really would rather not take the van to a shop today, but I can't seem to put a finger on the exact cause or be able to recreate it at the moment.

current state:
Once shutting off the van it will not restart. (currently after sitting all night it starts just fine)
Could be caused by overfilling of the gas tank
hot temperatures outside 90*+
non sealing gas cap

or some combination of the above. I do know that the problem first occurred on Sunday outside Portland, this is the first time we've hit hot 90*+ temps since the gas cap broke.

I'll go eat some high quality hotel breakfast and think about it for a few minutes.

The one thing I do know is, if it is soley related to the gas cap it would take a few days for one to get here.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 8:49 am    Post subject: Re: Fueling problem on Eurovan 1992 camper. Reply with quote

It might be flooding the intake when hot; I think I read another thread discussing this. In my case, the Oregon gas filler guy topped my van off multiple times while I was standing right next to him asking him to stop; this forced gas into my purge canister. When I pulled my N80 valve off, liquid gas spilled out of it. And, it was well over 90 degrees when I had this issue.
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Jooknon
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 9:56 am    Post subject: Re: Fueling problem on Eurovan 1992 camper. Reply with quote

Update: found a gas cap in Portland, driving up there right now to get it. We'll see if it fixes it.
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Jooknon
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Fueling problem on Eurovan 1992 camper. Reply with quote

So just to follow up and give an end to the story/saga and thread highjackage...

Obtained replacement gas cap.
Continued driving for 3 days from Portland to Nebraska, only shutting off the engine when we had reached our destination/campground for the night. On the 4th day the van refused to start and would just turn over and over. I figured it was either a fuel or spark issue and had none of the right tools or time to deal with it. And as we were only 9 hours from home we opted to have "Myrtle the Turtle" towed to a shop familiar with VW's in the nearby metropolis of North Platte Nebraska, rented a car and drove the family the rest of the way home.

Turns out the issue was the fuel pump, we pretty much burned it up driving so much in that Oregon heat wave.

Tomorrow I get the joy of driving back to North Platte to return the rental and pick up the van.

End of Saga.

(unless something else happens on the trip back... Wink )
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Jooknon
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:32 am    Post subject: Re: Fueling problem on Eurovan 1992 camper. Reply with quote

...something else happened on the way home.

We made it about 4.5 hours before she started shutting down. Like being out of gas. After sitting for 5 min or so she'd start up and run for another 2-3 minutes then shut down again. I speculated the fuel filter was clogged. I even had a replacement in the van but no hose clamps.

The day was getting late and we were at a fish or cut bait moment. Do I find a place to get hose clamps and try swap it out and see if that fixes it? Or do I just go rent a small UHaul truck and dolly and tow it home?
Chances are by the time I swapped the filter and if it didn't work, UHaul would close and I would be stuck for another day. Luckily for us this happened in a decent sized town and we were only a few miles from a UHaul. So after a few starts/drive as fast as possible/shutdown/wait/start again we eventually made it.

Didn't want to spend the money for a one-way rental but also couldn't get stuck 5 hours from home for another day.

The saga may not be done, but at least it is in my driveway now.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:47 am    Post subject: Re: Fueling problem on Eurovan 1992 camper. Reply with quote

Bummer!

I've replaced countless fuel filters in troubleshooting process, I don't think I've ever had a fuel filter actually cause a performance issue. I'd suggest plumbing in a fuel pressure gauge before doing any more changes to the fuel supply system, I bought a nice fuel pressure test set at harbor freight for a very reasonable price.

Crank position sensors can cause these types of problems, they intermittently fail when hot. Maybe even a coil in your case. I'm not sure what behavior a failing ignition switch has but that's common as well. I think I've heard of ECU issues on the early 90's EV's, and distributor failures; all of which can be heat related failure modes.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 9:13 am    Post subject: Re: Fueling problem on Eurovan 1992 camper. Reply with quote

Quote:
I don't think I've ever had a fuel filter actually cause a performance issue.


Never on a running car, only one something pulled from woods.

Similarly, "bad gas" is a fools diagnosis 99.9% of the time, like food poisoning
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Fueling problem on Eurovan 1992 camper. Reply with quote

Jooknon wrote:
...something else happened on the way home.

We made it about 4.5 hours before she started shutting down. Like being out of gas. After sitting for 5 min or so she'd start up and run for another 2-3 minutes then shut down again. I speculated the fuel filter was clogged. I even had a replacement in the van but no hose clamps.


Did you ever find the solution to this. I just replaced the fuel pump on mine and now it is doing the same thing.
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BatesEV
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:25 am    Post subject: Re: Fueling problem on Eurovan 1992 camper. Reply with quote

I know this is an older post but something to check is the distributor. The early vans had a vanagon style pick up at the bottom of the distributor that could get contaminated from a leaking shaft seal. The ACU distributor fixed this issue and put the pickup at the top. The housing can accept either one. Only difference is the hall wheel is a little off but will account for the variation. The seal can be replaced and is cheap it’s a CR/SKF 4702.
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volkybus
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 7:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Fueling problem on Eurovan 1992 camper. Reply with quote

I had a similer problem with a 79 or 80 golf or rabbit...it would only run a few thousand yards and stop...you wait five min and it would start then repeat...drove me crazy so after tiring lots of solutions I sold the car to my neighbor who had the same exact car so he kept swapped parts one by one till he fixed it and guess what the problem was....A collapsing fuel line...He replaced the line and ran the car for years..u might try looking 4 one of those....good luck...Bill 15vw van veteran
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 5:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Fueling problem on Eurovan 1992 camper. Reply with quote

Hi guys jumping in here to say that I am having the same issue on my 93 Weekender. We are driving back from Oregon to Chicago. We put about 450 miles on today through mountains and 90 degree heat and now the car won’t take gas.

We are stopping in Custer for a week and my thought was to take it to a local guy who could blow the hoses out and check the charcoal canister.

Looks like I should also have him check the fuel pump? Any other suggestions of what I should ask him about?

(Edited to add: we are also misfiring going 60 every so often. Any thoughts on whether that’s related?)
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volkybus
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2020 3:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Fueling problem on Eurovan 1992 camper. Reply with quote

The joys of old VWS... Give me carbs any day..when I get back to my EV I will probably build a intake manifold and put a carb on it.
All I see around here (VT) is bays n vanagans w carbs. Two many sencers and lots of bad grounds...and bad gas oftens the problem
Remember it's always something.
Sometimes simple

Hang in there.Bill (15 VW vans of my own plus many more for parts.
And of course a spare car or two.
.good luck. Also on fi cars(,vans) the cold start often gets stuck on & floods engine when warm... unplug the sucker..
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2020 4:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Fueling problem on Eurovan 1992 camper. Reply with quote

volkybus:

I personally don't think it's entirely unreasonable for a 17-25 year old van to experience some fuel issues, especially with a bunch of miles on it. The throttle body, ECU, and most of the other components tend to not fail much on the Eurovans, especially later models.

The Evap stuff can be a pain in the butt, admittedly. I don't think a carburetor is the answer here. I also don't think any Vanagon comes with a carb from the factory.

Ethanol fuel is pretty unfriendly to carburetors also, unfortunately. For a lot of these problems I blame the crappy E20 ethanol rather than the parts/VW.

Sidgey:

The fuel pumps do get tired sometimes, especially with ethanol and gas sitting for a while, but a dying fuel pump won't prevent you from being able to fill the gas tank.

Blowing out the evap system/charcoal canister will hopefully get you sorted. You may want to replace your N80 as well.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 4:33 am    Post subject: Re: Fueling problem on Eurovan 1992 camper. Reply with quote

If you want youR fuel pump to live it’s full live, don’t run the tank down

Never below a 1/4 tank in winter, 1/8 in summer

You should never see the Idiot man light turn on in any car
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 12:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Fueling problem on Eurovan 1992 camper. Reply with quote

I had someone get under the car and he looked everything over, didn’t say he saw anything concerning, and then the car took gas again like normal. Embarrassing, but the guy was nice and didn’t charge me. We concluded it was the heat building pressure for so long (though I don’t remember hearing a pop or hiss when I opened the cap to put gas in after the hot haul).

So it’s working normally again now and taking gas. But I still think there’s something in my air/fuel system that’s causing misfiring. I just don’t think it’s related to this problem anymore Smile

Thanks to everyone who responded, I love being a part of this community. You are all so wise and helpful.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2020 8:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Fueling problem on Eurovan 1992 camper. Reply with quote

I just thought of a another problem with summer driving... mostly related to carbed engines but I've noticed it on FI engines from time to time...
Vaporlock...the gasoline gets so hot it turnes to a greatas and won't burn properly so the engine misfires or worse stops until.the fuel cools down..Bill. In VT till winter.
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