Type 4 engine rebuild: take 3

orwell84 · Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:01 am Post subject: Type 4 engine rebuild: take 3

Type 4 engine single relief case, oil pump worked before rebuild., disassembled cleaned packed with vasoline. checked relief valve when assembling engine, filled the oil filter and yes the crankcase. Cranking without plugs would not turn off op but got a little oil in valve covers...started the engine briefly twice, ran it less than 30 sec each time...no luck. tried with vdo gauge...needle barely moved. Not sure what to do now other thsn nit start the engine again. Only big change in the engine is hss a new webcam cam...stock grind. Thanks very much for the help. I'm really stuck.

aeromech · Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:43 am Post subject:

New cam and same oil pump. Not sure about T4 engines but on T1's some cams have dished cam gears and others have flat cam gears. The pump needs to match the type of gear you have. The dished type has a longer drive tang to engage the cam gear. Recently I made myself a mechanical oil pressure gauge. It's fitted to the left rear rubber brake hose which has female on one end and male on the other. The thread is 10m x 1.0 which screws directly into the case where the oil switch goes normally.
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orwell84 · Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 3:52 pm Post subject:

The oil pump is not working, but we have been able to get it out. Have done all the usual things to remove the pump, except remove the engine and split the case. We are now trying to remove it in pieces. It's gotten very ugly. Any suggestions? Thanks for the help.

aerosurfer · Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 4:09 pm Post subject:

Loosen the case bolts (nuts actually) above and below the oil pump will help it slide out. Otherwise we need pics to see how mangled you have it now
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timvw7476

you are scaring me with these terms you are using-if you have the "ears"
left on the factory pump, the best pry-point is found when you pull
the rear mounts, held on each side by two bolts, and use the bosses
cast into the case to GENTLY pry at both sides of pump- a little propane
can help too, on both sides

busdaddy · Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 5:26 pm Post subject:

aeromech · Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 5:30 pm Post subject:

You must have seen something before you tried removing the pump body. Even a slap worn out pump would produce some kind of pressure unless the gears were'
t turning.
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Airbus A319,320,321
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VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
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VW Jetta
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busdaddy · Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 6:02 pm Post subject:

Just how "packed" with vaseline was this pump?, getting all the gears wet is one thing but jamming it solid could prevent it from priming or being able to expel the blob in the outlet.
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Wildthings · Samba Member Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50338

If you got some oil showing up in the valve covers and "tried with vdo gauge...needle barely moved" then you must be getting some oil flow through the pump. Sure you have the relief valve and spring installed correctly? Sounds like you might be dumping your oil straight back to the sump.

orwell84 · Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 6:02 am Post subject:

The outer cover of the pump is broken out enough so that the gears and shaft could be removed. No oil in the pump, just vaseline which was quite liquid because we tried heating the pump with a hairdryer to liquify the vaseline because we suspected it was overly packed. still won't come out even with the above suggestions. Thought of tapping the hole where the the pump drive shaft was, putting a bolt in it and putting some kind of puller on it.Yeah, it's an ugly mess...I just want to get the thing out. Obviously, I will need a new pump.

Wildthings · Samba Member Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50338

I have always wondered about the "fill it with vasoline" mentality. Confused

Kiptere · Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 11:16 am Post subject:

I don't get the vasoline thing, either. Why would you do that?
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airschooled · Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 11:35 am Post subject:

I think Wilson mentiones filling the pump with vaseline to create healthy suction for oil pressure building before first break in startup.
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timvw7476

if you have the gear set out, is there any way you can use classic
type 1 oil puller, the one with the T bar that engages the oil channels in
the pump body & tugs it out using a C shaped brace?

raygreenwood · Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 12:09 pm Post subject:

blue77bay · Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 4:20 pm Post subject:

timvw7476

that's the oddity here-i fear they are breaking down a T4 pump,from the
outside in. this IS the samba site so....would love some images of how
this project is faring,gonna get brutal Surprised

orwell84 · Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 6:39 am Post subject:

It was brutal but the pump is out. Any recommendations for a new pump. I have heard the Shadek 26mm for type 4 is a good choice, but am able to find pne availabe. There is also the pump sold by Bus Depot but no idea who makes it. btw I think the pump wasbtoo packed with vaseline to prime. the tang did engage the camshaft properly. What should I choose for an oil pump?

Thanks very much for the help.

orwell84 · Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 8:46 am Post subject:

It was brutal but the pump is out. Any recommendations for a new pump. I have heard the Shadek 26mm for type 4 is a good choice, but am able to find pne availabe. There is also the pump sold by Bus Depot but no idea who makes it. btw I think the pump wasbtoo packed with vaseline to prime. the tang did engage the camshaft properly. What should I choose for an oil pump?

Thanks very much for the help.

WhirledTraveller · Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 8:51 am Post subject:

Oil pump selection on a T4 is not a simple matter.

26mm and 30mm Shadek pumps which are made for T1 engines can work but they require that you check the clearance with the cam bolts carefully and probably will require that you shave a bit of metal off the back of the pump and adjust the length of the drive tang shaft with a press or vice. They also have a tendency to fit a little loose in the case and you should also carefully check and if necessary adjust the end clearance with the cover.

30mm Melling pumps are made for the T4 and will drop in and are reported to build good pressure. Not a bad choice although some feel that the iron pumps are not a good choice for an aluminum case due to differential expansion.

Many will say the best pump is the original 26mm pump. Not available new and difficult to find someone to rebuild them. I happen to have a rebuilt one from EVWparts which I never used which I would be willing to part with, PM me.
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